Sizing your Chest Freezer for Corny Kegs

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Do I want to have a separate CO2 tank if I want to force carbonate? I'm thinking of trying that.
Or is that the same thing...
:)

And do some guys have an extra sitting in there just in case they run out?

Thanks PassedPawn

One tank will do. Force carbonate just means you are carbonating with CO2 from a tank - so I guess same thing.

You really don't need an extra. The regulator will show you when the gas is getting low. When you run out, you can still serve beer for a while since there will be lots of compressed gas in the cornies. Just takes a quick trip to exchange for a full one.
 
I have a quick question for you, On the spec sheet it says that the collars minimum height should be 9 inches... But below that on the picture you have 7 3/4 (or something along those lines)? Is that just the overall height of the kegs inside? Should I go with 7 3/4 or 9"?

I just stared at the 5.0 CF model for a few minutes trying to figure out what you were talking about, until I noticed you said 7.0 CF. Hehe.

In the drawings, the min collar height is how tall of a collar you'd need to have 1" clearance above the top of the tallest object. With a corny, that's a tight, but doable fit. With a sanke, you'd probably need a bit more. That's where the 7¾" min collar figure comes from.

On the spec sheet, entries that are italicized are copied straight from the drawings. The 9" entry you're referring to has a username in the far right column, kmat123, which means that that particular user has personally confirm that the layout is possible with that size collar on their build.

Could you go 7¾"? Maybe. It's going to be tight. I'd go 9¼" (1x10 or 2x10 nominal width) just in case you ever decide to throw a 1/6 bbl or 1/4 slim bbl in there for a party. Plus, the extra height might just be enough to give you a place to store chilled mugs in the collar.
 
Do I want to have a separate CO2 tank if I want to force carbonate? I'm thinking of trying that.
Or is that the same thing...
:)

And do some guys have an extra sitting in there just in case they run out?

Thanks PassedPawn

Here comes a long response. The short answer is you can do it however you want.

You do not need a separate tank to force carbonate (speed up the natural carbonation process). It's just a pain in the ass, unless you make some concessions. Force carbing requires you to up the target keg to 30 psi, then ramp it down. To do this, you need some way to prevent from giving the serving kegs 30 psi.

The cheapest way to force carb on the same tank as serving kegs is to disconnect them. You can still get some pours off before the pressure drops in the serving keg, at which point you could disconnect the force carb keg and reconnect the serving keg to goose their pressure. Repeat as needed. Personally, that's the type of inconvenience I wanted to avoid by building a keezer.

Stepping up in price, if you have a manifold or distributor with shutoff valves, you can just shut off the valves instead of disconnecting kegs. This is easier, but still, not ideal. If you have a party, you'd have to man the CO2 tank.

Continuing up, the next option would be a dual-body primary. This is a primary on the CO2 tank that has two separate pressures and out ports. I went with this setup. I'm going to run the 1st primary to my force carbing keg at 30 PSI. The 2nd primary will be set to much lower serving pressures and connected to a distributor that feeds the serving kegs.

Another step up is to buy a secondary for each keg so you can dial in exactly what pressure they should get. This is probably the most expensive option, but gives the most flexibility. A 4-port secondary array will set you back $200, about the same price as the freezer.

The last option is to run two tanks, one for the serving kegs and one for the force carbing keg. If bought at the right price, a 2nd tank and 2nd primary isn't all that expensive. And it allows you to screw up and empty your CO2 tank while having a spare leftover. Note that this option takes up a bit more real estate in the keezer; you won't be able to fit 5 kegs in the GE 7.0 CF if you put a 2nd CO2 tank inside.

I bought a spare 5# tank because I live 45 minutes from the preferred tank filler, but it's on the way to work. I don't want to have to make an extra trip that far if I don't have to. Indeed, if I avoid 3 unnecessary trips, that pays for the spare tank in fuel savings. Mine won't be stored in the keezer.
 
It will show 100% full until you're running on fumes, then drops quickly.

Imagine a car where the fuel gauge only had two possible values:

"You have some indeterminate amount of fuel left..."

and

"Fuel light is on"

Hmmm, maybe mine are different. I think my needle slowly goes down. I'll keep a better eye on it and see if it is really moving or if it's my imagination.

I've got a micromatic regulator on a 20# and a taprite on a 10#. I've only once filled the 20#, but that was after a leak and I lost it all overnight.
 
The last option is to run two tanks, one for the serving kegs and one for the force carbing keg. If bought at the right price, a 2nd tank and 2nd primary isn't all that expensive. And it allows you to screw up and empty your CO2 tank while having a spare leftover. Note that this option takes up a bit more real estate in the keezer; you won't be able to fit 5 kegs in the GE 7.0 CF if you put a 2nd CO2 tank inside.

This is what I do. I've got a big (15cu.ft.) freezer for keg storage / force carbing. It has a 20# tank and a single body regulator and a 2-port manifold.

My serving freezer has a 10# tank, a dual-body regulator (I serve soda, too, at higher PSI) and a 4-port manifold to distribute the gas.

It takes appreciable time, space, and money to get here. I think it's far better for someone new to this to get their feet wet with a simple system, and add to it once they understand the options better.

BTW, great comprehensive post.
 
thadius856 said:
The last option is to run two tanks, one for the serving kegs and one for the force carbing keg. If bought at the right price, a 2nd tank and 2nd primary isn't all that expensive. And it allows you to screw up and empty your CO2 tank while having a spare leftover. Note that this option takes up a bit more real estate in the keezer; you won't be able to fit 5 kegs in the GE 7.0 CF if you put a 2nd CO2 tank inside.


I think I like this option the best. I like to have separate independent systems for things...

And I'm guessing I should have some pretty decent room, Because I plan to only operate three kegs.... I was going to have one sitting in there as a spare but maybe the CO2 tank is a better option?

If I fill a fourth keg and don't pressurize it can sit with still cider in it outside the Keezer? Like in my closet.... And when I run out of one, just pull it out of the closet, put it into the keezer, pressurize it for 36hr and drink?
 
thadius856 said:
you won't be able to fit 5 kegs in the GE 7.0 CF if you put a 2nd CO2 tank inside.
.

2 co2 tanks, and 4 kegs: (Sounds like just what I've been hoping to get out of this!)

So this will fit....

One CO2 tank to power the two serving kegs
One CO2 tank to carb..
A forth Keg for back up....

Now, after my one CO2 tank force carbonates a keg, Can I then disconnect that keg from that CO2 tank and connect it into the CO2 tank that I'm using to serve the beer or cider? So then the kegs are all three hooked up to the serving CO2 tank, Then I can use my force carbonating CO2 tank to carbonate the fourth spare keg?
 
It takes appreciable time, space, and money to get here. I think it's far better for someone new to this to get their feet wet with a simple system, and add to it once they understand the options better.

Perhaps. However, some options are mutually exclusive, requiring you to upgrade existing gear if done at a later point. For example, going from a manifold/distributor to a secondary, or single primary to dual primary. I'm going fully upgraded to start so I'm not re-purchasing parts to upgrade.

I think I like this option the best. I like to have separate independent systems for things...

And I'm guessing I should have some pretty decent room, Because I plan to only operate three kegs.... I was going to have one sitting in there as a spare but maybe the CO2 tank is a better option?

If you're only putting in 4 ball lock kegs, you can fit two 5# CO2 on the hump without needing a collar.

If you want a larger CO2 tank, you can move a ball lock to the hump then move the CO2 to the floor and add a 9" collar.

If you want 5 ball lock kegs and one 5# CO2, you'll need a 9" collar.

If I fill a fourth keg and don't pressurize it can sit with still cider in it outside the Keezer? Like in my closet.... And when I run out of one, just pull it out of the closet, put it into the keezer, pressurize it for 36hr and drink?

Sure. You could do that. Everything ages faster when not kept cold and topped off with CO2. I'd recommend keeping it in the keezer, hooked up to the serving gas, if you can.

2 co2 tanks, and 4 kegs: (Sounds like just what I've been hoping to get out of this!)

So this will fit....

One CO2 tank to power the two serving kegs
One CO2 tank to carb..
A forth Keg for back up....

Yes, this fits with ball lock kegs (not pin lock kegs). With this setup you don't even need to build a collar, so long as you keep the CO2 tanks down to the 5# size.

Now, after my one CO2 tank force carbonates a keg, Can I then disconnect that keg from that CO2 tank and connect it into the CO2 tank that I'm using to serve the beer or cider? So then the kegs are all three hooked up to the serving CO2 tank, Then I can use my force carbonating CO2 tank to carbonate the fourth spare keg?

Sure, you could do that.

Realize that force carbonating isn't the goal. Kegs will naturally carbonate themselves over a week or two, just like bottles do. Force carbing is for when you need to serve it sooner. You could also serve soda off the force carb keg instead without changing the setup any... you'd just need a $4 picnic faucet.
 
I don't think I want to use picnic type tap's.... Even though I do not need it for my configuration I think I'm going to build the 9 inch collar anyway so I can mount my tap handles, a nice digital gauge and drill the hole for the probe.

This way if I ever want to change the configuration or put a keg on the hump I can do that...

(I have a new question about force carbonation, But I don't want to change the topic of this thread.... So I'm going to put it under the kegging section. Maybe some of you guys can go and check it out and tell me what you think? It seems this thread has a very knowledgeable kegging crew)
 
I predict that the GE 7.0CF FCM7SUWW is going on sale again next week. Next week for Home Depot starts 01/06/13. Anybody know where I can find the ad ahead of time?

Previous sale dates indicate it may be cyclical:

11/24/12
06/21/12
01/06/12
11/10/11

Crossing fingers. Will try to track one down locally tomorrow at Home Depot. That way, if it does go on sale, I can just get the difference credited back.
 
thadius856 said:
I predict that the GE 7.0CF FCM7SUWW is going on sale again next week. Next week for Home Depot starts 01/06/13. Anybody know where I can find the ad ahead of time?

Previous sale dates indicate it may be cyclical:

11/24/12
06/21/12
01/06/12
11/10/11

Crossing fingers. Will try to track one down locally tomorrow at Home Depot. That way, if it does go on sale, I can just get the difference credited back.

When I went to Home Depot that model was $220..... I think I saw it at Home Depot Online for $189...
But I ended up going to Walmart, and got it for $139. Maybe it will be that price on their website as well?
I dont like Walmart but at almost $80 difference I just couldn't resist, And the money I saved will allow me to have all Perlick taps :)
 
Here comes a long response. The short answer is you can do it however you want.

You do not need a separate tank to force carbonate (speed up the natural carbonation process). It's just a pain in the ass, unless you make some concessions. Force carbing requires you to up the target keg to 30 psi, then ramp it down. To do this, you need some way to prevent from giving the serving kegs 30 psi.

The cheapest way to force carb on the same tank as serving kegs is to disconnect them. You can still get some pours off before the pressure drops in the serving keg, at which point you could disconnect the force carb keg and reconnect the serving keg to goose their pressure. Repeat as needed. Personally, that's the type of inconvenience I wanted to avoid by building a keezer.

Stepping up in price, if you have a manifold or distributor with shutoff valves, you can just shut off the valves instead of disconnecting kegs. This is easier, but still, not ideal. If you have a party, you'd have to man the CO2 tank.

Continuing up, the next option would be a dual-body primary. This is a primary on the CO2 tank that has two separate pressures and out ports. I went with this setup. I'm going to run the 1st primary to my force carbing keg at 30 PSI. The 2nd primary will be set to much lower serving pressures and connected to a distributor that feeds the serving kegs.

Another step up is to buy a secondary for each keg so you can dial in exactly what pressure they should get. This is probably the most expensive option, but gives the most flexibility. A 4-port secondary array will set you back $200, about the same price as the freezer.

The last option is to run two tanks, one for the serving kegs and one for the force carbing keg. If bought at the right price, a 2nd tank and 2nd primary isn't all that expensive. And it allows you to screw up and empty your CO2 tank while having a spare leftover. Note that this option takes up a bit more real estate in the keezer; you won't be able to fit 5 kegs in the GE 7.0 CF if you put a 2nd CO2 tank inside.

I bought a spare 5# tank because I live 45 minutes from the preferred tank filler, but it's on the way to work. I don't want to have to make an extra trip that far if I don't have to. Indeed, if I avoid 3 unnecessary trips, that pays for the spare tank in fuel savings. Mine won't be stored in the keezer.


I have a two-gauge regulator with wye connectors. I'm going to add one of these to the system so I can control the pressure in each keg.
http://stores.kegconnection.com/Detail.bok?no=609
 
I have a two-gauge regulator with wye connectors. I'm going to add one of these to the system so I can control the pressure in each keg.
http://stores.kegconnection.com/Detail.bok?no=609

Very valid setup. I hadn't written up that option because he'll eventually want something like you're planning to get, which may end up being a washer after separate shipping and the cost of the parts he's no longer using.
 
When I went to Home Depot that model was $220..... I think I saw it at Home Depot Online for $189...
But I ended up going to Walmart, and got it for $139. Maybe it will be that price on their website as well?
I dont like Walmart but at almost $80 difference I just couldn't resist, And the money I saved will allow me to have all Perlick taps :)

Walmart doesn't list any GE chest freezers on their website.

Can you confirm it's the 7.0 CF model? That's a really big price difference. Sounds like you picked up the 5.0 CF model.
 
thadius856 said:
Walmart doesn't list any GE chest freezers on their website.

Can you confirm it's the 7.0 CF model? That's a really big price difference. Sounds like you picked up the 5.0 CF model.

I guarantee you it is 7 cubic model...
Call want Walmart in Marina California.. (831)883-9138
Model FCM7SU (WW)

I called Home Depot and they had the very exact model for $220 in the store... But I am pretty sure I saw the same model on their website for $189
But before I ordered, just for the hell of it, I called Walmart and target to see if they had chest freezers... Target had nine but when I called Walmart the girl told me it was a seven cubic and then she told me the price and I just about choked... I had her reread me the model number about three or four times, Then I took her name down and said I was coming there in an hour and I hoped she was correct.... When I got there I confirm the model number on the side of the box and then pulled out my trusty iPhone to do a little further research to make sure I was not getting something different.

GE makes two different 7 cubic models...
The FCM7SUWW
AND THE FCM7DUWW
I don't quite know the difference between these two, I think it has to do with defrost, but both say they have manual defrost....

P.s. Walmart also had a pretty good deals on Black & Decker 7 cu ft models
 
I guess the FCM7DUWW Model has a drain pan and the locking lid... Seems to be the only difference.

It has a larger hump. Owners of it say that you cannot get 4 kegs on the floor, as I presume you can't fit two poly buckets on the floor either, making it less desirable as a fementation chamber. Other than the Igloo FRF472 (Best Buy), it's the only 7 CF model that cannot get 4 ball locks on the floor.

It's the "Sam's Club" model. I'm surprised they're selling it at Walmart now; but then again, I'm not, consider they have the same parent company. I'd expect at the lower price point that it's made to a lower mechanical specification, but I'm unable to confirm that.
 
All I know is that's a a great price considering the only 7 cu ft chest freezers at the other stores around started at around $200 and on Craigslist people were asking $100 for used ones. I'm happy with mine
:mug:
 
And Thadius, Your CAD images helped me so much dude, I really appreciate it! I had to return a pin lock yesterday and I ordered four ball locks..
:)
 
All I know is that's a a great price considering the only 7 cu ft chest freezers at the other stores around started at around $200 and on Craigslist people were asking $100 for used ones. I'm happy with mine
:mug:


Maybe Home Depot will have another Magic Chef Special Buy. It is pretty lightweight and I lifted the thing into and out of the back of my Tahoe. I think it weighs about 75lbs. But, for $!58, I'm satisfied. I did not even flinch when I had to cut holes into the top. I figure for $158, it is a disposable freezer... I just hope it is not a total turd.
 
Is there a CAD drawing for the inside of a 19.8 cu ft Kenmore elite...I have a new one and would like to see the options.

Not yet. But I'm pretty bored right now and can make one up. Here's what I need to make you one:

Model number
Interior Width
Interior Depth
Interior Height to lid
Which side the hump is on
Hump Width
Hump Height, or Height from top of hump to lid

Any specific layouts you'd like to see? You can cram a whole lot in a 20 CF freezer.
 
All I know is that's a a great price considering the only 7 cu ft chest freezers at the other stores around started at around $200 and on Craigslist people were asking $100 for used ones. I'm happy with mine
:mug:

I wish you the best of luck.

The extra money was worth it for me to have the peace of mind that it's probably less likely to die and screw up 5 fermentations on me. Think of the cost of ingredients alone in 5 fermentations.
 
Just an FYI, I bought the Magic Chef 7 around Thanksgiving and put my Kill-a-Watt on it.

It has cost me about $1.15 for the month of december to run. That is with a cost of power of $0.10 / kWh. The average temp was about 65F (it's on my back patio). I keep it at about 35 internally. Also, I have 4 kegs, a CO2 tank, and an uninsulated 6" collar.

I suspect that cost will go up in the summer heat.
 
Not yet. But I'm pretty bored right now and can make one up. Here's what I need to make you one:

Model number
Interior Width
Interior Depth
Interior Height to lid
Which side the hump is on
Hump Width
Hump Height, or Height from top of hump to lid

Any specific layouts you'd like to see? You can cram a whole lot in a 20 CF freezer.

Sent a pm....here's a pic

ForumRunner_20121231_075048.png
 
Ha! Be nice....Yooper said the same thing. Trying to figure out how to add 2013 to that banner :)

It could be the year for Dook and Coach Krewsaweski. My names for him used to be waaay more suitable for censorship. But, I have mellowed :mug:
 
Thanks, and it looks like your guys should do pretty good in the NIT this year...

Challenge accepted! We now return to brewing related material. By the way, you mentioned yooper in an earlier post. I believe there is a little town up in the U.P. named Chapel Hill and everything is Carolina Blue. I passed through there back in 1985/86.
:mug:
 
The Kenmore 14.8cf model 16542 just went on sale today at Sears. Normally $424, it's now on sale and $326 with coupon code SEARS35OFF300AFFILIATEDEALS. Local pickup is free.

15cf-class models typically sell for $440-495 new. This one does have a lighted lid, but I personally do not like but some may. Sears website will tell you if you qualify for any local rebates.
 
The Kenmore 14.8cf model 16542 just went on sale today at Sears. Normally $424, it's now on sale and $326 with coupon code SEARS35OFF300AFFILIATEDEALS. Local pickup is free.

15cf-class models typically sell for $440-495 new. This one does have a lighted lid, but I personally do not like but some may. Sears website will tell you if you qualify for any local rebates.

That is a great price, home depot had the ge 14.8 for $299 at one point last year. I waited and waited for it to drop back down but it never did. Wish I could have bought this one but I am currently building a 7 cu ft right now and plan to get another 7 cu ft for fermentation. 2 7 cu ft freezers cost about the same as one 14.8 model so I decided to go that route.
 
Professional Series 7 cu ft from Menards. $170 on sale. 3 kegs and extra room with no collar.

Ps72731 model number.

image-232270915.jpg


image-2605016593.jpg


image-2420857938.jpg


image-723030732.jpg
 
Thadius,

If I could like all your posts at once, I would but I thought a personal "shout out" was more appropriate. I really appreciate you posting all this info on these freezers. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that. Thanks man!


Does anyone know if the hump in the Magic Chef HMCF7W goes all the way front to back like other freezers or is it just in the rear corner like the Maytag 14.8CF Thanks.
 
Thadius,

If I could like all your posts at once, I would but I thought a personal "shout out" was more appropriate. I really appreciate you posting all this info on these freezers. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that. Thanks man!


Does anyone know if the hump in the Magic Chef HMCF7W goes all the way front to back like other freezers or is it just in the rear corner like the Maytag 14.8CF Thanks.

All the way, front to back.
 
Thadius,

If I could like all your posts at once, I would but I thought a personal "shout out" was more appropriate. I really appreciate you posting all this info on these freezers. I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that. Thanks man!


Does anyone know if the hump in the Magic Chef HMCF7W goes all the way front to back like other freezers or is it just in the rear corner like the Maytag 14.8CF Thanks.

Thanks! I appreciate this.

Unfortunately, this thread's getting a bit too jumbled up and disorganized to keep a ton of my drawings. I'm only addiing to the chaos.

I'll be removing my posts and images from this thread in a few minutes. I've made a comprehensive thread for the drawings, where I can control the formatting and layout a bit better. Check it out:

[thread=377518]Chest Freezer Spec Sheets and Layout Drawings[/thread]

I don't want to take away from the discussion here, so I'll try to keep my thread as on-point as possible.
 
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