New 100 Rhizome hop farm

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sok454 said:
@GVHDan what would you assume a structure that size would cost if you were doing it?
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Depending on pole costs (biggest variable) and variables you are using, the trellis itself should be $5k to $6k for an acre of plants holding about 1,250 rhizomes. The irrigation system adds another $1k. So trellis only is around $4.50/plant or $5.50/plant including irrigation (but not well and well pump).

We are trying out a new design that drops the price a bit more but I would hesitate to tell anyone to try it until its lived through at least 1 good storm with 3rd year plants.
 
specialkaye said:
In all I have read about hops, I had not run across this little tidbit. Now, that begs the question, at what point does the increased hand labor outweigh the increased yield ?
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That's a good question...let me do some back of the napkin numbers. I'll work on the 1 acre size.

From what we have seen, to handpick an acre you need about 750 labor hours. Assuming $10/hour, that is $7500.

Lets assume you are getting a healthy production of 1750 lb/acre (dried) and a premium price of $15/lb. That means $26,250.

Now if that handpicking increased yield the next year by 10%...the new yield would be 1925 lb. That extra 175 lb gives you another $2,625 or $28,875 for the total crop. Bear in mind, for every year you do this, you get 1925 lbs, the 10% doesn't compound on itself.

OK, now the hard part is comparing it to mechanical. Forgive the "commercial" but I only have numbers for our equipment...so the worst I've seen our equipment do is about 60 labor hours for an acre. (Best is 1/3 of that.) At the same hourly rate, that is $600/acre. Thus the labor savings for mechanical picking is $6,900 vs. an additional $2,625 in product for handpicking...in other words, mechanical picking nets an extra $4,275/yr.

So what is the payback on a mechanical harvester? You could probably build something simple for around $5,000. Ours is around $13,000. You can get a Wolf for $30,000 (maybe)...so payback on mechanical harvesting is 1 to 7 years. Feel free to rerun the numbers for whatever you feel is your reality.
 
Absolutely awesome information, Dan. Thank you very much.
I'm thinking the savings would really compound as scale increases past 1 acre.
Again, thanks for this info. I'm saving it for later reference as my wife and I are exploring the possibilities of small scale organic production.



GVH_Dan said:
That's a good question...let me do some back of the napkin numbers. I'll work on the 1 acre size.

From what we have seen, to handpick an acre you need about 750 labor hours. Assuming $10/hour, that is $7500.

Lets assume you are getting a healthy production of 1750 lb/acre (dried) and a premium price of $15/lb. That means $26,250.

Now if that handpicking increased yield the next year by 10%...the new yield would be 1925 lb. That extra 175 lb gives you another $2,625 or $28,875 for the total crop. Bear in mind, for every year you do this, you get 1925 lbs, the 10% doesn't compound on itself.

OK, now the hard part is comparing it to mechanical. Forgive the "commercial" but I only have numbers for our equipment...so the worst I've seen our equipment do is about 60 labor hours for an acre. (Best is 1/3 of that.) At the same hourly rate, that is $600/acre. Thus the labor savings for mechanical picking is $6,900 vs. an additional $2,625 in product for handpicking...in other words, mechanical picking nets an extra $4,275/yr.

So what is the payback on a mechanical harvester? You could probably build something simple for around $5,000. Ours is around $13,000. You can get a Wolf for $30,000 (maybe)...so payback on mechanical harvesting is 1 to 7 years. Feel free to rerun the numbers for whatever you feel is your reality.
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GVH_Dan said:
No heat added. Just ambient air until they are almost dry, then seal them off in a plastic tent with a dehumidifier. Preserves oils and aromas.
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Dan, I completely agree with the no heat method. Just wondering if u tried the tent/ dehumidify method from the start and if so, how did it work out?
 
specialkaye said:
Very interesting. Have you done a side by side comparison or acid test too?
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Yep. So have many others. Alpha levels dictated by the plant and harvest time. In our case oil levels are higher than industry standard and samples from others we test.
 
demons210 said:
Dan, I completely agree with the no heat method. Just wondering if u tried the tent/ dehumidify method from the start and if so, how did it work out?
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I've done it for 5 years now on volumes as small as a 5 gallon bucket of hops up to 1/3 of an acre at a time (about 500 lb dry). I also have our growers follow this method with same results.

This method confuses many of the brewers who buy our pellets because they smell different due to the presence of oils and aromas that are normally bakes out. The phrase, "are you sure these are Cascade?" Has been uttered more than once.
 
Sorry to interrupt your conversation guys, but here are some more updated pictures.

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I just finished dropping the last rhizomes today and stumbled across you thread. I have 120 in total and am just hoping and praying I see what you are seeing now soon. Crazy structure and good luck to you.
 
They are coming up fast and the bines are getting very thick for first year plants. Good luck Rough&Ready. If you have as good of luck as we have you will have a high percentage of those plants survive. All but 2 plants are up out of the 96 now so we are doing well. We put an extension up for the largest willamette because it will outgrow its twine this week.
 
basementbrewbrad said:
They are coming up fast and the bines are getting very thick for first year plants. Good luck Rough&Ready. If you have as good of luck as we have you will have a high percentage of those plants survive. All but 2 plants are up out of the 96 now so we are doing well. We put an extension up for the largest willamette because it will outgrow its twine this week.
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I am in the sit back and pray something pokes through the ground stage and it is killing me I tell ya! This is worse that waiting on Christmas to come I think. Oh well, they are in the ground and now I play the waiting game until I get my equipment for stringing the polls. This projects timeline is all screwed up but seeing your success gives me a bit of hope that everything will work out. At least I have plenty of beer to help easy the sore body so life is good.
 
Pics from this evening May 31st

They are continuing to grow and bines are still coming up everywere.... the ones coming up now seem to be much thicker than the ones that are already several feet tall. The 2 now shows have roots so they will be ok. One small columbus looks to have been overtaken by an ant colony and is not doing well. You can see the large plant is growing up towards its extension... they have doubled in size in the last 2 weeks

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basementbrewbrad said:
With a watering nozzle for flowers on the hose about 10 minutes a row
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Hmmm. No clue what that equates to. I have 2GPH drip on each one and have been running it 15 minutes in the morning and 15 in the evening so basically a gallon a day but I worry if that is right. The waiting game is freaking killing me. I just need to see life! Oh well. At least I have plenty of beer. Thanks for the quick reply.
 
RoughandReadyRanch said:
Hmmm. No clue what that equates to. I have 2GPH drip on each one and have been running it 15 minutes in the morning and 15 in the evening so basically a gallon a day but I worry if that is right. The waiting game is freaking killing me. I just need to see life! Oh well. At least I have plenty of beer. Thanks for the quick reply.
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You should be fine. From what I have read about a gallon a day is good to shoot for
 
RoughandReadyRanch said:
Hmmm. No clue what that equates to. I have 2GPH drip on each one and have been running it 15 minutes in the morning and 15 in the evening so basically a gallon a day but I worry if that is right. The waiting game is freaking killing me. I just need to see life! Oh well. At least I have plenty of beer. Thanks for the quick reply.
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If these are first year rhizome cuttings id be very careful with that much water. Root rot can set in. Id just give them a little drink each day. And if the ground is moist before you water. Their is no need to. They love water and sun. But they dont like drowning in water
 
I agree with that pleasant valley. I only water as stated previously on hot dry days. Of the ground is moist we leave em alone
 
I agree pleasant valley. We only water as I stated above when it is dry and on the rows that we have well established roots. Also take the forecast into consideration before watering if the soil is good and moist we leave them alone
 
basementbrewbrad said:
I agree pleasant valley. We only water as I stated above when it is dry and on the rows that we have well established roots. Also take the forecast into consideration before watering if the soil is good and moist we leave them alone
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I guess I should have mentioned the climate here. Today's high will likely be 100'F and yesterday was upper 90's. We are hot and dry all summer. My skin is cracking from the lack of humidity and the recent report from the fire department is that our plant moisture content level is that of July at this time. Ground is dried out pretty quick at this point even after a good watering. They are definitely not sitting in water. We are probably closest to Yakima Valley in temps but it is hard to gauge watering when they only water once ever few weeks and soak all day. If I did that I would have a dry well by 9am I think. It seems the watering info for hops is just so vague.
 
basementbrewbrad said:
I agree pleasant valley. We only water as I stated above when it is dry and on the rows that we have well established roots. Also take the forecast into consideration before watering if the soil is good and moist we leave them alone
Click to expand...

Another good with a check for water is to dig down a few inches in the soil and see if you can ball up the ground with your hand. if you can't do that you need water
 
basementbrewbrad said:
I agree pleasant valley. We only water as I stated above when it is dry and on the rows that we have well established roots. Also take the forecast into consideration befoe watering if the soil is good and moist we leave them alone
Click to expand...

Another good with a check for water is to dig down a few inches in the soil and see if you can ball up the ground with your hand. if you can't do that you need water
 
RoughandReadyRanch said:
I guess I should have mentioned the climate here. Today's high will likely be 100'F and yesterday was upper 90's. We are hot and dry all summer. My skin is cracking from the lack of humidity and the recent report from the fire department is that our plant moisture content level is that of July at this time. Ground is dried out pretty quick at this point even after a good watering. They are definitely not sitting in water. We are probably closest to Yakima Valley in temps but it is hard to gauge watering when they only water once ever few weeks and soak all day. If I did that I would have a dry well by 9am I think. It seems the watering info for hops is just so vague.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you might not be giving them enough water. Each situation is going to be different. I'd check the soil, either with the "ball the dirt" method or a simple moisture meter you stick into the ground.
 
Like Dan from Pleasant Valley said, with new rhizomes you don't want them to be too wet until they are more mature. The rhizome cutting will rot. If you have multiple that haven't come up yet I would suggest checking one to see if there is any growth and if the rhizome is "soggy". Hops really don't need a lot of water until they are established. If it is soggy it most likely is done.

If I were to start hops in desert conditions, I would start them in pots prior to planting and keep them slightly mosit and with a tarp strung a few feet over the pots until they push ground. That way you can regulate the mositure content.
 
PariahVineyard said:
Like Dan from Pleasant Valley said, with new rhizomes you don't want them to be too wet until they are more mature. The rhizome cutting will rot. If you have multiple that haven't come up yet I would suggest checking one to see if there is any growth and if the rhizome is "soggy". Hops really don't need a lot of water until they are established. If it is soggy it most likely is done.

If I were to start hops in desert conditions, I would start them in pots prior to planting and keep them slightly mosit and with a tarp strung a few feet over the pots until they push ground. That way you can regulate the mositure content.
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Sounds logical. Not really in the desert though. Just hot this week. California as a whole is pretty dry right now. I just watch Air Attack fight a fire from my home yesterday which had a bit of a pucker effect if you know what I mean. I am definitely not over watering as the ground is pretty dry and I am trying to simply keep it moist. I am already committed and it has only been a week in the ground so I am not so sure that I should expect to much at this point. If I don't see anything after two weeks I will really start panicking and may did a bit to see what is going on but for now it is simply water and wait.
 
RoughandReadyRanch said:
Sounds logical. Not really in the desert though. Just hot this week. California as a whole is pretty dry right now. I just watch Air Attack fight a fire from my home yesterday which had a bit of a pucker effect if you know what I mean. I am definitely not over watering as the ground is pretty dry and I am trying to simply keep it moist. I am already committed and it has only been a week in the ground so I am not so sure that I should expect to much at this point. If I don't see anything after two weeks I will really start panicking and may did a bit to see what is going on but for now it is simply water and wait.
Click to expand...
Yea a week in the ground i wouldnt be worried "yet". Our additions this year we saw growth at a week and then over the following week or two we had growth everywhere. Ended up this year with 99% growth out of 400 rhizomes so liking this year for new guys. Keep an eye on them and id say we can give this thread back to basementbrewbrad whos doing pretty well for first year grower!
 
Was going to post new pictures today but we are supposed to get between 2 and 3 inches of rain today. Hopefully this massive amount of watter doesn't bother them
 
Got some pictures... Sidearms forming everywhere on the cascades. Cascades, columbus, and centennial, showing signs of the start of cones. The columbus have finally started to make up some ground with a few plants around 7 feet tall. The Willamette and Cascade plants are huge... almost all of them are near the top. The largest of the Willamette plants is climbing on its extension now. The centennials are starting to go nuts; each plant has 5 or more bines and are getting quite bushy. I think these boys are going to produce quite well for first year plants, minus the columbus. We have very high hopes for the cascades... they are the ones with burrs and sidearms in the pictures.

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Its looking good:ban:

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cascade

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Cascade

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Cascade


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Big Willamette

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Columbus

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Columbus
 
In other news the plants that don't have any infection are huge. Cascades have 3 plus foot sidearms that you can see in the pics. Only about 4 plants are the off color so I want to get it taken care of before it happens to more



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Think the off color was just caused by the massive amount of rain in the last several days. It got better as the day went on.
 

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