Hard cider vs apelwein

What is the difference?

I want to make a gallon of something and I'm not even sure what to call it:
1 gal of Treetop juice
1 or 2 lbs of table sugar and/or brown sugar - until OG is around 1.10
champagne yeast

then add priming sugar before bottling to bottle carb. I want it carbed. Sweet would be nice too, but not sure if I can get there without the bottle bombs.

I just finished a young glass of Apfelwein. As I understand, champange yeast is not your choice for a sweet finish.

Apelwein has an ABV up in the wine ranges. Just for the sake of being simple I would say 9 to 10 percent and up.
Hard ciders are in the beer ranges up to the wine range.

Assuming you get a FG of 0.995 or so.

2 lbs sugar will get you around a SG of 1.123. ABV of above 16%. With champagne yeast you will be looking at rocket fuel that will take a year or more to be blended enough to be really good.
1 lbs sugar will give you a SG of around 1.088, and an ABV of above 12%. Still well up in the apple wine level and it will take a long time for the flavours to blend and be ready to drink.
I usually use 1-3 lbs of sugar with 5.5 gallons of apple juice because I'm a lightweight and I like drinking cider too much.
The high ABV ciders makes the next morning a little difficult.

You can sneak over to the mead section, go to the FAQ in the sticky and download hightest spreadsheet and work out the recipes you like.
Hope this helps, sanitize everything and good luck.

So it depends on how much sugar you use? Or which yeast? Or whether you bottle carb it?

Apelwein has sugar added. Cider usually doesn't. The wine / beer comparisons are also good. Apelwein is aged like wine while cider is ready in beer timeframes.

It's basically the same thing.

I normally would call it apple wine if it had an alcohol content in the 12-18% region. But looking at a commercially made Possmann's German Frankfurter applewine...it's only 5.5% ABV.

In England it would be a Cider.

I've made Apple Cider from the Vinoka Ciderpress Kits...and I make it slightly sweet...but you do it by:

Ferments out dry (1.000 Final gravity)

Filtered to remove as much yeast as possible

Potassium Metabisulphite added to kill the yeast that is left

Invert sugar, raw sugar, and additional apple flavoring is added.

Kegged and carbonated...

It makes an excellent cider...but these kits are getting more and more expensive.

If you want a sweet cider...you either have to add sugar after killing the yeast...or use a yeast that just naturally peters out at 6% alcohol.

I'm very much enjoying the Apfelwein...If you want it slightly sweeter, you can add a shot of lemonade or Sprite. Dang stuff is addictive...crisp and refreshing.

So you can't make it both sweet and bottle carb it?

bbriscoe said:

So you can't make it both sweet and bottle carb it?

Click to expand...

You can...but you'll have to do it much the same way that home carbonated soft drink makers do..

Use a yeast that's not temperature tolerant....

Bottle...leave at room temp until they start getting carbonated...then put them in the refrigerator to cold shock the yeast into dormancy.

I don't have any experience with this...so I'm not going to be very helpful.

Another thing you might experiment with....

Use the yeast you would normally use for the dry cider.

Pitch just enough priming sugar to carbonate in the bottle.

And invert sugar (lactose), splenda (non-fermentable sweetener) for sweetening...

Bottle and allow to naturally carbonate.

which yeasts are not temp tolerant? and if I do that method how long to I carb before putting in the fridge? I guess if I wait too long I'd have bottle bombs for sure?

bbriscoe said:

which yeasts are not temp tolerant? and if I do that method how long to I carb before putting in the fridge? I guess if I wait too long I'd have bottle bombs for sure?

Click to expand...

You got it. There is no such thing as cold intolerant yeast. Eventually... boom.

Sweet + carbonated cider = kegging. The yeast must be removed (filter) or killed (sorbate), followed by adding your back-sweetening and then force-carbonating. If you keg, Strongbow or the like is easy.

You mentioned an original gravity of 1.100... Most everything but a wine or champagne yeast is going to stop due to alcohol content.

I would recommend you rack off 1 litter...add carb tabs or priming sugar proportional to the 1 litter size, add splenda to taste...and bottle in a PLASTIC 1 L Coke Bottle. This will be your experiment. Just leave the rest of the cider in your carboy under the airlock.

The advantage of the plastic is...1) if you screw up and it explodes...it will be less hazardous than glass. 2) you can squeeze the bottle by hand to feel the pressure, can't do that with glass.

I'd try to go at least 2 weeks...then chill it way down for a few days for the CO2 to get well absorbed. Pop it open and sample it. Is it sweet/dry enough? Is it carbonated enough? ...and you can make 1 little samples from there until you get it spot on.

Once you've got the sweetness and carbonation right on...then and only then would I commit to putting anything in a glass bottle.

I'm only thinking this way...because it's an unknown to me. If someone with first hand experience has actual finding...then by all means don't reinvent the wheel.

I agree with JKARP...the best way is to finish, filter, K-Meta, back sweeten, keg and carb...

You can always transfer some from a keg to a growler or a plastic pop bottle with a carbonator cap.