Brewing a Saison this weekend

So I'm brewing a saison this weekend. I've got a 1L starter crashing in the fridge that I built up from the dregs of a Pretty Things Jack D'or (supposedly fermented w/ 4 strains of Belgian yeast) mixed with the dregs of a 12oz Hennepin. So... should have some good flavors. I'll be fermenting at ambient temps (70-85deg).

The thought is to brew something like Jack D'or (but definitely not a clone). I've got some leftover grains that I'll be throwing in for giggles. The hop schedule is kinda busy - just the way I like it.

Let me know what you think...

Name: Saison Fuerte
OG: 1.057
FG: 1.016 (hopefully lower...)
ABV: 5.5%
SRM: 6
IBU: 40.9
Boiling Time: 75 mins
Batch Size: 5.25 gallons
Boil Volume: 3 gallons
Yeast: 1L starter from dregs of Jack D'or and Ommegang Hennepin

_Fermentables:
4lbs Northern Brewer Gold Malt Syrup (46%, 36PPG)
2lbs Northern Brewer Wheat Malt Syrup (23%, 36PPG)
1lb 4oz Belg. Pilsner Malt (14%, 34PPG)
10oz Table Suar (7%, 46PPG)
6oz Turbinado Sugar (4%, 44PPG)
5oz Belgian Biscuit Malt (4%, 35PPG)
2oz Oats (1%, 34PPG)
1oz Gambrinous Honey Malt (1%, 28PPG)

Minimash in 2.5qt water at 148F for 1hour, then 155for 15mins

_Hops:
First Wort (75+ mins): 1.125oz Chinook (13% AA)
30 mins: 0.25oz Mt. Hood (5.5% AA)
20 mins: 0.25oz Mt. Hood (5.5% AA)
15 mins: 0.25oz Mt. Hood (5.5% AA)
15 mins: 0.25oz French Strisserspalt (2.9% AA)
10 mins: 0.25oz Cascade (7.0% AA)
05 mins: 0.50oz French Strisserspalt (2.9% AA)
01 mins: 0.25oz Mt. Hood (5.5% AA)
01 mins: 0.25oz French Strisserspalt (2.9% AA)
01 mins: 0.25oz Cascade (7.0% AA)
01 mins: 0.25oz Centennial (8.9% AA)

here's a link to it on hopville: http://hopville.com/recipe/404612/saison-recipes/saison-fuerte

Recipe looks good, though I think the majority of the problems people have getting a saison to ferment out dry enough comes from pitching too warm. Consider getting some temperature control for the first couple of days. In my experience, this notion that saisons don't need good temp management is a major misconception.

Nanop - this looks like a fun recipe! Looking forward to hearing how it turns out.

MalFet said:

Recipe looks good, though I think the majority of the problems people have getting a saison to ferment out dry enough comes from pitching too warm. Consider getting some temperature control for the first couple of days. In my experience, this notion that saisons don't need good temp management is a major misconception.

Click to expand...

Malfet - I'm curious to know more of your thoughts on this. I'm currently experimenting with Wyeast 3711 as a potential house yeast in order to avoid strict fermentation control and still produce good beers of different styles. So far, I've pitched at my apartment's room temperature of 72 - 75 F and let it ride with no control. What are your suggestions for pitching temp and control on Saison yeasts?

frailn said:

Malfet - I'm curious to know more of your thoughts on this. I'm currently experimenting with Wyeast 3711 as a potential house yeast in order to avoid strict fermentation control and still produce good beers of different styles. So far, I've pitched at my apartment's room temperature of 72 - 75 F and let it ride with no control. What are your suggestions for pitching temp and control on Saison yeasts?

Click to expand...

3711 is more forgiving than 3724, but nonetheless a lack of temperature control will still (in my experience) produce an inferior beer. More importantly, 3711 would be a mighty strange house yeast...saisons are traditionally very funky and very, very dry. Neither of those things are going to translate well across all styles.

If you are getting results you are happy with, don't let me talk you into changing. That said, I think you'll get better results using standard yeasts and a mini fridge. It's an unfortunate reality, but there's no real way around needing good temp controls.

Thanks for the reply!

I have tried 3711 a couple of times on traditional, dry saisons, and haven't dectected any funk flavor, but my palate is not very refined after smoking for 20 years (just quit recently).

I'm brewing a mild with this yeast tomorrow to see how it turns out. Looks like I'm hijacking, so will start up a convo about out of style saison yeast in another thread.

Thanks for the replies! I typically pitch my yeast to well-shaken, 65deg wort. It'll usually still only be about 70 degrees 18 hours later. Then, things begin to climb. I think that's pretty good (and haven't had trouble yet), still I have no idea how my mix of Jack D'or and Hennpein yeast is going to respond.

I'm all for pitching the yeast as cool as possible (as cool liquids hold more oxygen for the yeasties).

I'll report back as the brew progresses

I have been brewing Saison's a lot this year and so far my favorite yeasts are Wy3522 and wlp566. I have been starting all of mine at 68 for 3-4 days then letting them ramp up into the 80's for 7 and have been very pleased. I just yesterday received my first shipment of East Coast Yeast : ECY03 and ECY08, so my faves may change!

Yah, I think Jamil says basically the same thing. Start cool, let the yeast start to work, and then let the temps take off naturally.

Update: brewed yesterday, cooled to 90f in 35 mins, xfer'd to 6.5 gal carboy, cooled to 76f, shook vigorously for 5 mins (got a good foam head on it), decanted 500mL of 1L of room-temp starter (built from bottle dregs) and pitched the remainder (it had about 1cm of yeast at the bottom of the flask).

The yeast was pitched at 8pm. I re-aerated at midnight and 6am (no activity yet). Now, I'm going to wait. I'm REALLY hoping that my starter was large (and alive) enough to get this thing going.

You may want to put on a blow-off tube - just sayin lol

@VaBrewer, erg... I hope so... right now (24 hours after pitch), there's no visible airlock activity and no surface activity. I'm usually seeing something at 18 hours (though this is the first time I've built a starter from a commercial beer)...

Patience?

yeah just wait, as long as the yeast was active in the starter you should be fine.
Lag happens...

OK, so I'm beginning to get worried. 40 hours in and no activity. I'm beginning to wonder whether the starter was viable. It's possible that the starter's taste was due to the beer than went into it w/ the bottle dregs and not due to actual yeast activity. Maybe the settled stuff was dead? I dunno.

I'm going to wait this out till 60hours. I have a pack of Safbrew T-58 in the fridge... I'm guessing I could use that if needed.

Well, worry got the best best of me. ~50hours in and not a bubble. No airlock or surface activity, no movement in the wort. I pitched the T58 and am hoping for the best. Oh well....

2 hours after pitch and the wort is covered in a 1/4" of white foam. Airlock is bubbling. Well, looks like this'll be my Safbrew T-58 experiment!

So I created a new thread in "Fermentation" to document the yeast's performance:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/warm-fermented-saison-w-safbrew-t-58-a-268669/