Late fermentation every time

Hi!

I'm fairly new to AG and brewing in general. I'm trying hard to setup a stable, constant system.

However, I'm finding that fermentation (krausen and/or bubbling) always takes more than 24 hours to start. While the beer turns out fine, with no contamination whatsoever, this is pretty nerve-wracking every time.

I cool the wort using an IC down to tap water temp (~68F) and I control fermentation temperature using a modified freezer, and tend to ferment ales on the cold side, but not too much (~65F). I make a 1.5-2L starter as per Wyeast instructions on their website, chill it to drop the yeast, decant it, let it warm up to room temp, then pitch it. I then shake the crap out of the carboy for 5 minutes.

I'm pretty clueless on that one..

A starter is always good! The thing is, some beers need a small 2L starter, while others might need a bigger starter to have the optimum amount of yeast.

There are two really good yeast pitching calculators out there- mrmalty.com (go to "yeast tools" and choose pitching calculator) or yeastcalc.com

Check it out, and see if your starters are actually the proper amount that you need for each batch. My guess is not.

No worries. A 24 hour lag period is fine so long as you pitch enough yeast and hit your temps right. It sounds like you're working at addressing both so long as you're not brewing higher gravity beers or lagers.

The goal isn't a fast, vigorous ferment, but a healthy one within the optimal temp range for the yeast that will result in a pleasant-tasting beer.

Yooper said:

A starter is always good! The thing is, some beers need a small 2L starter, while others might need a bigger starter to have the optimum amount of yeast.

There are two really good yeast pitching calculators out there- mrmalty.com (go to "yeast tools" and choose pitching calculator) or yeastcalc.com

Check it out, and see if your starters are actually the proper amount that you need for each batch. My guess is not.

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I do all my calculations with Beersmith, and have double checked with yeastcalc.

I also brewed lower and higher gravity beers, all had about the same lag period. I never had to step up a starter, but if I had to, I would.

Yeast don't work by time or calendar, they honestly have no idea if they're late or not so neither should you

If you are doing everything right to ensure proper pitch rate and controlling temps and turning out good beer then don't worry about it, they'll get the job done in the time frame THEY need, might not be yours though....

ph0ngwh0ng said:

I do all my calculations with Beersmith, and have double checked with yeastcalc.

I also brewed lower and higher gravity beers, all had about the same lag period. I never had to step up a starter, but if I had to, I would.

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Then it sounds fine! You mentioned making a 1.5-2L starter, per Wyeast, that's why I mentioned using yeastcalc. In most cases, a 1.5L starter isn't big enough.

For example, a 1.060 OG 5 gallon batch of beer with yeast that was made on October 5, you'd need a starter of 3.21 liters to get to the optimum amount of yeast, per mrmalty.

Do you use a stir plate?

If the beer tastes fine, then don't worry.

I get concerned when mine start quicker than 12 hours. The yeast need time to reproduce. If it starts too early I get concerned that I over-pitched and do not have enough fresh yeast.

I like to start between 12 and 24 hours.

Calder said:

If the beer tastes fine, then don't worry.

I get concerned when mine start quicker than 12 hours. The yeast need time to reproduce. If it starts too early I get concerned that I over-pitched and do not have enough fresh yeast.

I like to start between 12 and 24 hours.

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I have no concerns about when my fermentations start. I pitch proper sized starters, ferment at proper controlled temperatures. I get great beers.

Most of my fermentation show some signs after 4-6 hours and almost always by the next morning. If they don't start before going to bed that day, I don't get worried and all have started in 12-18 hours.

I have also read enough that I would not get too worried for at least a couple of days.

If you treat your yeast well, they will reward you with good BEER!

I've heard adding an oxygen setup will speed up the initial fermentation time. Shaking only gets you so far…

Yooper said:

Then it sounds fine! You mentioned making a 1.5-2L starter, per Wyeast, that's why I mentioned using yeastcalc. In most cases, a 1.5L starter isn't big enough.

For example, a 1.060 OG 5 gallon batch of beer with yeast that was made on October 5, you'd need a starter of 3.21 liters to get to the optimum amount of yeast, per mrmalty.

Click to expand...

Do you use a stir plate?

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That's for a non-stirred starter. I use a stir plate. From what I can feel here, I should just relax and let the little ones do their job...

ph0ngwh0ng said:

That's for a non-stirred starter. I use a stir plate. From what I can feel here, I should just relax and let the little ones do their job...

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+1 to you for using a stir plate.

I used to use Mr. Malty for calculating my stir plate starters, but have recently begun to give greater consideration to Braukaiser's/Chris White's calculations found here- http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

Can you really shake the crap out of a full carboy for 5 minutes? My back would say "no" to that, so I just bubble O2 when using liquid yeast (especially for lagers).

BigFloyd said:

+1 to you for using a stir plate.

I used to use Mr. Malty for calculating my stir plate starters, but have recently begun to give greater consideration to Braukaiser's/Chris White's calculations found here- http://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pitch-rate-and-starter-calculator/

Can you really shake the crap out of a full carboy for 5 minutes? My back would say "no" to that, so I just bubble O2 when using liquid yeast (especially for lagers).

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I have been doing this for 2 1/3 years. I do use Better Bottles which are lighter and easy to shake. O2 is in the future but I have had no issues so far so it is not at the top of the list.

BigFloyd said:

Can you really shake the crap out of a full carboy for 5 minutes? My back would say "no" to that, so I just bubble O2 when using liquid yeast (especially for lagers).

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Yes you easily can if you put the carboy on a soccer ball, or football, and rock the carboy back and forth. Of course, it doesn't reach the same level of O2 as if I was using an oxygen distribution system, but it certainly is cheaper. This is way low on my priorities list, first being to add pH monitoring and adjustments to my system. Although, I do build my water from RO and guestimate using brunwater. But that's stuff for another thread...

I would move pure O2 up your list. There are three important steps to having happy, healthy yeast. You are doing two of them by proper pitch rates and temp control. Yeast need plenty of O2 to do their job. Make your yeast happy and give them pure O2!

phuff7129 said:

I would move pure O2 up your list. There are three important steps to having happy, healthy yeast. You are doing two of them by proper pitch rates and temp control. Yeast need plenty of O2 to do their job. Make your yeast happy and give them pure O2!

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It's understandable that the O2 setup isn't in the brew gear budget for now, but you may want to check into getting one of those stir gizmos that wine makers use. You put it on an electric drill and stick it down into the carboy. That should aerate quite well.

I'm afraid that rocking it back and forth atop a soccer ball isn't getting you much O2 dissolved into the wort. I would put this above pH monitoring as a priority.

RDWHAHB! As others mentioned, a 24hr lag time is perfectly normal. You don't need to worry until you get to 72hrs or so. Some people talk about their fermentation starting in 1,2,3 hrs like its a great accomplishment. Actually, that's not a good sign. Yeast need time to multiply and grow. That's what's happening before visual, active fermentation. Your want some lag time. It's healthy.

BigFloyd said:

It's understandable that the O2 setup isn't in the brew gear budget for now, but you may want to check into getting one of those stir gizmos that wine makers use. You put it on an electric drill and stick it down into the carboy. That should aerate quite well.

I'm afraid that rocking it back and forth atop a soccer ball isn't getting you much O2 dissolved into the wort. I would put this above pH monitoring as a priority.

Click to expand...

Great idea! Will pick this up on my next lhbs run.

EDIT: Just bottled my last brew and it tasted heavenly. I'm definitely not doing so bad