New twist immersion chiller

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Starrider

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Have been researching ideas on making my own chiller. Cost being one of the major factors. The standard copper immersion chiller being about the cheapest still seems a bit expensive. Plate and CF are just out of reach for me right now.
In my research, it seems that speed is also a high point for consideration. It seems that anything under 20 minutes is respectable, I don't remember seeing anyone getting under 10 minutes for 5 plus gallons.

Here is my new twist on the idea. I happened to have a heater core from a car (new) that fit very nicely in my boil kettle. Setup is the same as the copper coil chiller so it is very easy to put together.

I haven't used it yet on an actual batch but I tested it on 6 gallons of boiling water. I forgot to measure my tap water but it is the first of July so I imagine the results could be better in the winter. I started a stop watch when I turned on the water and watched the thermometer for temp change. Time from 212 degrees to 73 degrees was 4' 43".

I am pretty pleased

image-2361845445.jpg
 
Nothing about a heater core is food grade, lead solder leaching, epoxy leaching, and or any other oils or crap used on it while being made will come out into your brew. Your just asking to get yourself or anybody else really sick using that.
 
If it where me I would put it in a bucket of ice water before a copper immersion chiller and use it to get the water super cold.
 
I appreciate the feedback. I am open to correction but I thought about this for a bit. Any oils from manufacturing were washed and boiled off in the test pot mentioned above. Of course it would be sanitized with starsan before actual use as well.
As far as the solder goes, it is now [supposed] to be lead free. But, for the sake of conversation and the benefit of the doubt, solder exposure should be minimal. No more than would be seen in standard household copper plumbing which is loaded with it. With only 5 minutes of contact time, there is probably more contaminates in my well water.

Not brewing until next weekend and still time to change my mind so please enlighten me if my logic is faulty.
 
Solder for domestic water is lead free, most others are not. I don't know if solder for aluminum contains lead, if so using starsan will only help to leach out the lead or whatever.

"With only 5 minutes of contact time, there is probably more contaminates in my well water."

Maybe so, maybe not. I would like to know more about this before I used it.
 
Lead-free car heaters? Says who? Car heaters are not potable water systems and may not be covered by any ROHS regs...

Cheers!
 
Lead free solder, lmao, sorry I do mechanic work and I bet the last 5 of those I've installed come from mexico. Their standards aren't the same as the US. I highly doubt they are using high priced food grade silver solder to make car parts cheap.

If you must take the chance at least limit it to your body and don't serve anybody else poison.
 
Check with the Chem Department if a local college. Tell them exactly what you're doing.

This might make a fun lab for a beginning chem class, or even an analytical chem class!

Take them a sample of your standard water and water in which your radiator has boiled for an hour.

Ask them to check for heavy metal levels and any other compounds they might think of.

Could be very enlightening and fun for all! Trade or beer!

The reason no one else is doing it might just be because no one though of it or mo one decided to check for real results...
 
Check with the Chem Department if a local college. Tell them exactly what you're doing.

This might make a fun lab for a beginning chem class, or even an analytical chem class!

Take them a sample of your standard water and water in which your radiator has boiled for an hour.

Ask them to check for heavy metal levels and any other compounds they might think of.

Could be very enlightening and fun for all! Trade or beer!

The reason no one else is doing it might just be because no one though of it or mo one decided to check for real results...

Not a bad idea. Better safe than sorry, and you never know. OP might turn out to be an innovator. If it turns out to be safe, the only concern would be clogging while chilling, imo.

BTW, check these out. Both claim to be lead-free:

http://www.clizen.com/automotive-heaters-and-heater-cores-manufacturer

http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/we...e-toughone-or-ready-aire_5890101-p#fragment-4
 
I like the water test idea. At least it would confirm one way or the other.
I'm not sure I can do the college method but I am sure there are other labs and mail in companies that will do the test. I know I had the water tested when we bought our house. That's how we found the arsenic in our well water :(

Neo, you're right, at this point I can't confirm that the solder is lead-free. I can confirm where it is made though. Right down the street from me. The company I work for supplies the aluminum that is used in them. I will have to check my contacts and see if they will tell me what solder they use. The ones Jeff found say lead-free and those are aftermarket. I would expect OEM to be of higher grade. Thanks for looking.

It would be dissappointing to find out it can't be used, it is really fast and I can't beat the price. Hopefully I can get some testing done soon and know for sure.
 
I am very interested in seeing how this turns out. If it turns out to be safe I might pick one up myself.
 
To make something food grade cost money for the safe materials. I highly doubt that a heater core for a car is made with any food grade standards. There are other chemicals that are used in the process besides the solder. As the aluminum is formed on the assemble line it's coated with all types of chemicals and lubricants to protect the machines that are bending/cutting it. Also, the aluminum used in that may not have been processed as "food grade" either.

There are different manufacturing processes for each component. Again, food grade costs more money because of the special non-toxic materials they have to use to manufacturer the component versus making something that is not food grade.

Don't mess with your health. Once that's heated up, all kinds of toxic chemicals are going to start leaching off it. That's why there is food grade plastic, plastic that is BPA free, etc.

EDIT:
You can still uses this in a way that it will not come in contact with anything you would consume. Attach one end of the hose going into the core into your water source, place the heater core into a big bucket of ice, attach the other tube end into a food grade immersion chiller and you'll have ice cold water pumping through the chiller and it will never touch your brew, that will cool it real quick.
 
Check with the Chem Department if a local college. Tell them exactly what you're doing.

This might make a fun lab for a beginning chem class, or even an analytical chem class!

Take them a sample of your standard water and water in which your radiator has boiled for an hour.

Ask them to check for heavy metal levels and any other compounds they might think of.

Could be very enlightening and fun for all! Trade or beer!

The reason no one else is doing it might just be because no one though of it or mo one decided to check for real results...

I've thought of it, repurposing my Hayden 457 oil cooler - but only as a pre-chiller - the cooler never gets near or touches the wort.

IMG_1595Medium.jpg


IMG_1604Medium.jpg


IMO, using any automotive car heater anywhere in food service use or application is not very smart.

YMMV.
 
The core you have isn't the old school copper tube and aluminum fins with the tubes soldered into the heads. It is a microchannel design and doesn't have traditional solder used with copper pipes everyone is thinking of. These are made of nearly 100% aluminum, including the solder normally so you may have no issues. See if you can find out who does the manufacturing and if you can find out what their process is. They will tell you that it isn't food grade regardless of what products they use, but that is only because they don't have it certified for food use or nsf tested.

Hit it with some peroxide and vinegar to remove surface lead(if there is any), but I'm pretty sure you've got nothing but aluminum there.

Way to think out of the box! A little more homework and you may have the best new chiller out there,
 
WPStrassburg, that is the best news I've heard all day. I believe you are correct in the type of core I have here.

The manufacturer is just down the street. The company I work for supplies all the aluminum and like you, I too think it is 100% aluminum.

Unfortunately, all my contacts are in the office and wouldn't know anything about the process. I will have to find someone on the floor I can ask about that.

Thanks for the input. I will keep working on verification of materials and process. Hopefully it will prove out in the end.
 
I wish ya luck but I got a feeling leaks on the line are still gonna be soldered. They ain't gonna toss one because of a pinhole in a press fit when in a few seconds it can be fixed. Lead solder is still out there, dad works at a lumber treatment yard and they use it all over the place. Not being a piece designed for food use I still highly doubt they use anything higher grade designed for or food safe.
 
I'd love to see what your children look like after you try this!

In all seriousness, DO NOT put this in your wort! A serious medical complication is NOT worth saving $40.
 
echo what was said by others. It'll make a great pre-chiller but might leach nastiness into your beer depending on the manufacturing process. If you are going to use it, consider testing the water as was suggested.

Cleaning... Aluminum forms a native oxide layer when exposed to air that is stable in the 4-9 pH range. so as long as you stay in that range you have a protective layer that will resist corrosion. Meaning, do not use acidic cleaning solutions (starsan) or you will strip off the native oxide and start eating away at the metal. My understanding is that the Aluminum oxide that forms is not has hard as the Chromium Oxide that forms on stainless. That and the fact that aluminum itself is much softer than stainless lead to increased chance of scratching and pitting which become sites for infection and increased corrosion. If the Al has been anodized then its oxide layer is thicker and more resistant to scratching. I've seen several places say not to use oxadation based cleaning solutions, but I can't find why. If the oxide is well formed then the surface is well resistant to further oxidation assuming pH ranges are kept within and no abrasives are used which would damage the layer.

Final concern would be galvanic corrosion. I'm not entirely sure on the average conductance of wort, but I would assume it is somewhat greater than water. Aluminum has a lower reduction potential than stainless and as such will ionize into solution over time corroding the core. This will happen faster anywhere the core touches your kettle (assuming the kettle is stainless, if it's also aluminum then you have no problem). Depending on how fast this happens you may result in some level of metallic off flavors in your beer. Aluminum is generally non-toxic so you don't have much to worry about there.
 
U.S. made copper tubing. Would this use lead free solder?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/12x12-Water...638?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35c385f066

I've also been looking at this, I think it might work in a bucket of ice water.
This would be very easy to clean.

Top one is again not made with any standards that pertain to human consumption so it's hit or miss as far as what metals/chemicals may be present to leach out into beer... But as a pre-chiller in an ice bath it would work well due to high surface area.

As for the second one, that is just a simple tube in tube heat exchanger and wouldn't be likely to provide much heat transfer. It looks like it's designed to be used with a refrigerant undergoing a phase change which results in far better heat transfer than water to water.
 
Blauhung, thanks for the detailed input. I was aware that AL build an oxide layer but not that the Starsan would take it off. Good to know.

My brew pot is also AL so that is a possitive. The water test is still probably the best idea to indicate one way or the other. I have contacted the manufacturer to see what solder or other chemicals might be used but no info. yet.

Still looking for reasonably priced water analysis. If the price is too high then I may as well just buy the FDA approved chiller.

When it comes to the leaching concerns and even the galvonic corrosion, among other factors, they are also time based. Household plumbing has lead solder and contact time is is measured in hours or even days. My test required less than 5 minutes so I would think that would have an impact. Only a water test will prove that out though.
It's just my cynicism but the FDA probably made some rat go swimming in [whatever] or exposed it to levels 1,000 times greater than what we would see and said, "look, the rat got sick. We must ban this from human use".

Obviously, for comercial use, the FDA must be followed. But for personal use, is it really a problem or just paranoya? If it is not paranoya, then it was just a bad idea. I would just like to know for sure cause this would be slick if it is ok.
 
I don't want to sound to rude, but using non-fda approved items will give homebrewers a bad reputation.

This thread topic will give home brewers a bad reputation.

Sorry, but as home brewers, we do have to have to maintain a good rep and posting this idea (using car parts and exposing them to the wort) is not helping us.
 
I don't want to sound to rude, but using non-fda approved items will give homebrewers a bad reputation.

This thread topic will give home brewers a bad reputation.

Sorry, but as home brewers, we do have to have to maintain a good rep and posting this idea (using car parts and exposing them to the wort) is not helping us.

I don't know that I'd go THAT far.

I certainly wouldn't put it in MY wort, and probably wouldn't drink it if i knew it was in beer i was served. However - it does provide a great heat exchange value and I bet at the right flow rate, you could get even Houston summertime tap water down in the sub 50*F range with that thing as a pre-chiller.

Now... i'm off to go make some bad choices that will sully the name of homebrewers everywhere!
 
I don't want to sound to rude, but using non-fda approved items will give homebrewers a bad reputation.

This thread topic will give home brewers a bad reputation.

Sorry, but as home brewers, we do have to have to maintain a good rep and posting this idea (using car parts and exposing them to the wort) is not helping us.


Probably 90% of the stuff we use isn't FDA/NSF approved.

Is any of the Blichmann stuff?

Chugger pumps, LG pumps, most(all?) march pumps, duda/shirron brazed plate heat e silicone tubing, copper & stainless immersion chillers, strainer bags, the Chinese ss & al pots are NOT FDA/NSF approved, but quite a few of use them everyday.

If something is manufactured of the proper materials and cleaned of machining residue, which nearly ALL products have on them, then the equipment is fine to use. If it was in service and can't be properly cleaned, then you are being risky if you don't know how to clean it or it can't be cleaned of residual chemicals.

People with no rational reasons creating hysteria over someone's equipment decisions are more likely to give us bad names.

Do you homework as some in here have and provide quality information and we'll all be better off as brewers.
 
FDA stamp or not, what is important IMO are the materials used. All the FDA stamp means is that someone paid a bunch of money to have something inspected and approved by them.

If you can afford $500+ brew pots and quadruple digit brew systems, more power to you. Not all of us can afford that and look for cheaper alternatives. I would not promote anything that is unsafe, just because the FDA hasn't put their stamp on something, doesn't by default make it unsafe. I'll bet the cooler that everyone uses as a mash tun wasn't approved. How do you know the plastic is safe for hot wort? Many plastics gas at high temperatures. That's why we have CPVC.

Now on the positive side; I found out this is 100% aluminum and uses aluminum solder in a reflow furnace that would also burn off any flux residues. An alcohol bath would take off everything else. As a new unit, no glycol or others were ever introduced.

To me, this is holding up as a viable option
 
How much did this cost u? Or were u given it? If it was given to u for free, see if u can get anothre or two or three and take them to a scrap yard. Cash it in, take that to Lowes or HD and get urself some copper coil and make urself an immersion. Or take the coil and look for yardsales for an old hose and make a CFC. My CFC takes boiling down to 60's in the time it takes to drain, roughly 6-9 minutes.

Boiling to get any heavy grease or anything else off of it from the inside isn't 100% sure thing. The stuff still has to drain and some is bound to be left inside. Judging by what ive read and most of the comments here, I commend u on thinking outside the box but I think there are WAY to many what if's with regard to safety.
 
How much did this cost u? Or were u given it? If it was given to u for free, see if u can get anothre or two or three and take them to a scrap yard. Cash it in, take that to Lowes or HD and get urself some copper coil and make urself an immersion. Or take the coil and look for yardsales for an old hose and make a CFC. My CFC takes boiling down to 60's in the time it takes to drain, roughly 6-9 minutes.

Boiling to get any heavy grease or anything else off of it from the inside isn't 100% sure thing. The stuff still has to drain and some is bound to be left inside. Judging by what ive read and most of the comments here, I commend u on thinking outside the box but I think there are WAY to many what if's with regard to safety.

+1

I also commend you for thinking outside the box. I looks like one of the best prechiller I have seen thus far. That being said, put the solder chemistry aside, the sanitation concern would be a very close second for me. It only takes infecting one batch and you have lost money and quite a bit of time.

At this point the amount of time spent researching the materials, manufacturing process and finding an economical water testing facility would have outweighed the $40 or so it costs to make a conventional immersion chiller IMHO.
 
I support this idea as I have the same idea. There is no lead in soldering aluminium. These are all cold soldering so aluminuim to aluminium. Have one like this but made of copper. Same thing. Soldered by zinc and silver. This should work. There is a issue of cleaning it with starsan bt you actually do not have to sanitize it as it gets cooked in wort for 15min. Al is also bacteria free as metal. This could work.
 
Do you have any pictures of yours?

Some good concerns were raised above. Even though I am confident the unit I have is safe, as bad67z said (is that a Camaro by the way), one bad batch and all.

Of all the pros and cons, one pro is that I only have to run the water about 4 minutes. Definitely helps With the SWMBO.
 
I will post some pictures when the sistem gets tested. Mne is also aluminum and cold welded
 
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