Never ending fermentation? 11 days in primary and still bubbling once every 5 sec

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JLW

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I did a search and couldn't find my exact scenario. This is the first time this happened to me so I am a little unsure as to what to do.

I know not to go off of the bubbles but I usually check gravity when the bubbles slow to one every 60 seconds or longer which usually only takes a week. My worry is probably more grown out of imapatience than anything. I don't want to transfer before it is done.

I guess my question is: Should I just relax and let it finish no matter how long it takes?

This beer is an double batch of Arrogant Bastard clone and I used Pacific Ale yeast.

Batch 1: OG = 1.084
Batch 2: OG = 1.091

Thanks ini advance for any advice.
 
Bubbles do not equal fermentation. Your beer may or may not be still fermenting, but the only way you can know is to take a couple of hydrometer readings over the span of 48 hours. If you want to get this into a secondary after all the sugars have been metabolized for whatever reason, you have to check. Otherwise, I would just leave it alone for at least another two weeks. Stop futzing! Your yeast are getting annoyed! :mug:
 
Something you need to understand I think...The airlock is NOT a magical fermentation tool or gauge. Your beer will ferment regardless of whether you use an airlock or not. ALL an airlock is is a vent, a valve to release excess co2. Nothing more. It's not even a gauge of fermentation.

All it is is some way to let gas escape from your beer so you don't blow the lid off your fermenter and paint your ceiling with beer. Lots of folks don't even use an airlock, some even just cover their fermenters with tin foil or plexiglass. Half my fermentations have no airlock activity whatsoever, regardless of buckets or carboys....In fact Northern brewer now has a little rubber valve that fits in the grommet hole and just lets excess co2 out. No need for an airlock (which is good for folks trying to do temp controlled fermentation in dorm fridges and stuff where there might not be room for either a tall airlock or a hose.

Which goes to show how inconsequential to the actual fermentation process they really are.

But you really really really need to get a hydrometer. You can't go by looks alone....I can't stress this enough.

Airlocks bubble or they don't it doesn't mean anything is wrong.

Half my beers NEVER have a bubbling airlock, but I've never had a fermentation not happen before.

Airlock bubbling and fermentation are not the same thing. You have to separate that from your mindset. Airlock bubbling can be a sign of fermentation, but not a good one, because the airlock will often blip or not blip for various other reasons...

If your airlock was bubbling and stopped---It doesn't mean fermentation has stopped.

If you airlock isn't bubbling, it doesn't mean your fermentation hasn't started....

If your airlock starts bubbling, it really doesn't matter.

If your airlock NEVER bubbles, it doesn't mean anything is wrong or right.

Your airlock is not a fermentation gauge, it is a VALVE to release excess co2. If it bubbles it is because it needs to, if it doesn't, it just means it doesn't need too...

Often an airlock will bubble if the fermenter has been disturbed in some way, like a change in temperature, change in atmospheric pressure, the cat brushing against it, opening it up to take a hydro reading, any number of things. The co2 has sat in stasis for a period of time, then it was disturbed so it is not longer at equilibrium with everything else now. And therefore it is blipping in your airlock...

Or you could indeed have fermentation happening, since maybe your fermentation was laggy and a change in temp restarted fermentation.

Airlock bubbling only tells you that co2 is coming out of the airlock, it is not telling you why. And there's various reasons. That's why it's not a good idea to equate airlock bubbling with fermentation...It could be because it is fermenting, or it could not be because of fermentation...so it's not a trustworthy tool.

And airlocks sometimes bubble or they don't. And airlock is a valve, a vent to release excess co2...NOT a fermentation gauge. It's important to make that distinction, or you'll be panicking everytime a an airlock doesn't bubble, or stops bubbling.

Fermentation is not always "dynamic," just because you don't SEE anything happening, doesn't mean that any-thing's wrong,, and also doesn't mean that the yeast are still not working diligently away, doing what they've been doing for over 4,000 years.

external visual cues like airlock bubbling and even krausen development are not as good or accurate indicator of what is happening "under the hood"....and why the one consistant indicator is gravity reading.

All krausens look different, even using the same yeast on different batches.

The amount of krausen can vary for whatever reason, it can come quick and depart quickly or it can linger long after fermentation is complete, and it all be normal.
or example, I had a wit beer that I pitched bottle harvested Hoegaarden yeast on Dec. 26th, LAST YEAR that STILL had a 2" krausen on it three weeks later. I took a grav reading and it had reached terminal gravity, 1.010. So the beer was done, but the krausen still lingered. I finally gently swirled the beer to knock it down, and let it settle for another week before I bottled it. I'm not normally a fan of knocking them down, and usually let it do it naturally.

But some yeasts are low flocculating, and may have a difficult time. I figured since mine was bottle harvested, and I had pitched the starter at high krausen, maybe it was "genetically mutated" with the flocculation "gene" off or something. So I gently swirled it and let it fall.

I brewed another batch with another mason jars worth of that yeast several months later and had the same thing happen.

Beligan wits are notoriously long krausening.

That's why it's fruitless to try to use those things as indicators, they aren't consistent from one batch to another....even with the same yeast.

That's why you need to take a gravity reading to know how your fermentation is going, NOT go by airlocks, or size of krausen, or a calendar, the horoscope or the phases of the moon (those things in my mind are equally accurate). :rolleyes:

The most important tool you can use is a hydrometer. It's the only way you will truly know when your beer is ready...airlock bubbles and other things are faulty.

The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....

So all you know is that your airlock is bubbling...NOT that your beer is fermenting or not.
 
I made a yeast starter for each batch and used 1 vial of liquid yeast for each starter. Fermentation started within 12 hours.

It sounds like I need to continue to work on my patience. Brewing beer seems to do that.

:mug:
 
There we go again. The trademark Revvy response. If your fermentation started within 12 hours of pitching and is still bubbling every 5 seconds after 11 days you SHOULD wonder what is going on. With proper pitching rates, oxygenation, and temperature, your beer should be at terminal gravity and done fermenting by 11 days. I can't imagine too many scenarios that would cause the airlock to bubble every 5 seconds other than fermentation. Maybe Revvy would like to actually help someone answer that question instead of always pasting his long dissertation about how airlocks are not a fermentation guage. I am so sick of seeing that every time someone has a fermentation question. I guess we should just ignore the science behind proper pitching rates, temp, and oxygenation because Revvy once had a beer take 3 weeks to ferment and every fermentation is different and if it takes 3 weeks then it takes 3 weeks and you are just being impatient if you wonder why it isn't done yet.

Take a hydro reading and the rest of us will help diagnose what may be going on.
 
There we go again. The trademark Revvy response. If your fermentation started within 12 hours of pitching and is still bubbling every 5 seconds after 11 days you SHOULD wonder what is going on. With proper pitching rates, oxygenation, and temperature, your beer should be at terminal gravity and done fermenting by 11 days. I can't imagine too many scenarios that would cause the airlock to bubble every 5 seconds other than fermentation. Maybe Revvy would like to actually help someone answer that question instead of always pasting his long dissertation about how airlocks are not a fermentation guage. I am so sick of seeing that every time someone has a fermentation question. I guess we should just ignore the science behind proper pitching rates, temp, and oxygenation because Revvy once had a beer take 3 weeks to ferment and every fermentation is different and if it takes 3 weeks then it takes 3 weeks and you are just being impatient if you wonder why it isn't done yet.

Take a hydro reading and the rest of us will help diagnose what may be going on.

Do you actually just read my response or just troll me. I DID say to take a hydro reading...... :rolleye:

I can't imagine too many scenarios that would cause the airlock to bubble every 5 seconds other than fermentation.

But he won't know that without a grav reading will he.

I can imagine several scenarios myself....change temp, change in atmospheric pressure, a lot of initial co2 just coming off the beer. Lots of it in trub holding in co2...maybe it's still fermenting, maybe there's vibration from traffic outside or something vibrating in the house that causes the fermenter to shake a bit, maybe an infection...... that's why he needs to seperate the idea of bubbling and fermentation, Because the airlock only tells him the WHAT....that his airlock is bubbling, not the WHY, and the only way to know THAT is WITH A HYDROMETER....

Besides, my " trademark" response tends to be correct 99% of the time......Because most of the time the poster, is using the words fermenting and airlock bubbling interchangably...and often equating a problem with the airlock's behavior. That's why I post it. To actually help people.

*shrug*
 
Bubbles do not equal fermentation. Your beer may or may not be still fermenting, but the only way you can know is to take a couple of hydrometer readings over the span of 48 hours. If you want to get this into a secondary after all the sugars have been metabolized for whatever reason, you have to check. Otherwise, I would just leave it alone for at least another two weeks. Stop futzing! Your yeast are getting annoyed! :mug:

Gee and to think, you didn't troll MalFet for giving the SAME answer did you?
 
I have a specific recipe that will have krausen for up to 2 weeks. In my opinion and experience, if you still have krausen, you are still fermenting. It is very true that your airlock is not a fermentation gauge, but if there is still CO2 being generated and it is still bubbling the airlock on a GLASS carboy then you're more than likely still fermenting. If however, you have a plastic bucket, changes in atmospheric pressure can cause the beer to outgas and cause bubbling in the airlock, especially if there is a good seal. The bucket can compress slightly under changing atmospheric pressure and "squeeze" some CO2 up and out of the airlock.

Thats my take on this, my $.02
 
In my opinion and experience, if you still have krausen, you are still fermenting.

Well, I used to believe that too, UNTIL, I had a wit beer that I pitched bottle harvested Hoegaarden yeast on and it STILL had a 2" krausen on it three weeks later. I took a grav reading and it had reached terminal gravity, 1.010. And it did it in subsequent batches as well.
 
How was head retention on that beer Revvy?

The only reason I ask is because the beer I brew that has awesome head retention is the one that has krausen for weeks. In fact the krausen just fell a week ago, and I brewed it in mid January (16th). edit: if it was a wit, you may have had some ingredients that could cause low head retention so it may not be the best gauge of my hypothesis. Perhaps I'll PM you my recipe and see what your results are? Let me know if interested.

My opinion is that we're both trying to convey the same methodology to the new brewers; relax, don't worry, have a home brew. Wait it out. Everything will be just fine.
 
How was head retention on that beer Revvy?

The only reason I ask is because the beer I brew that has awesome head retention is the one that has krausen for weeks. In fact the krausen just fell a week ago, and I brewed it in mid January (16th). edit: if it was a wit, you may have had some ingredients that could cause low head retention so it may not be the best gauge of my hypothesis. Perhaps I'll PM you my recipe and see what your results are? Let me know if interested.

My opinion is that we're both trying to convey the same methodology to the new brewers; relax, don't worry, have a home brew. Wait it out. Everything will be just fine.

It's a great beer. One of my best recipes. The head was consistent with the style. Irrc it stayed around as much as hoegaarden itself does. And left protein lines as the beer was swallowed.
 
First, I have seperated the idea that the airlock bubbling and fermentation are two seperate things. I only use the airlock as a guide and my experience is that this is the first time I have had bubbling going steady for 11 days and at the same rate. It was something new to me being much less experienced in brewing than most people on this board. I thought while I was at the computer and this scenario was fresh in my mind I would get another opinion.

Again there are two batches brewed on the same day with very little variance in technique. Batch #1 is in a glass carboy. Batch # 2 is in a plastic fermentation bucket. I live in the country so there are no vibrations from the street and neither beer has been moved since I placed them there originally. EDIT: I'm using a blow off tube into a bucket of water for both beers. I was going to switch off to an airlock upon transfer.

When I get home from work tonight I will take a hydrometer sample from each and gather ambient temp and report back.

Thats all I can think of right now.

EDIT: My apologies if I have wasted anyones time.
 
Do you actually just read my response or just troll me. I DID say to take a hydro reading...... :rolleye:

The problem is you give the same cut and paste response every time you see the words fermentation and air lock bubbling.

I know not to go off of the bubbles but I usually check gravity when the bubbles slow to one every 60 seconds or longer which usually only takes a week.

The OP was noticing something unusual for the vessel, yeast pitch, and temp that he usually ferments at. Rather than throwing out your trademark response, maybe you could try and actually help them figure out WHY the beer is doing what it is doing. Bubbling every 5 seconds would be HIGHLY unusual for it to be just CO2 off gassing due to temp change or vibrations, especially with a blow off tube.

Just because people feel dumb when they read your degrading and annoying rant and decide not to argue with you and just "RDWHAHB" doesn't mean you are right 90% of the time.

And I'm not trolling you. Why don't you honestly read your cut and paste "airlock" post sometime and ask yourself if you feel that it is not degrading to the person and if it actually helps them understand the science of brewing? Yes, the OP needs to take a hydro reading, but you don't have to give them the screws everytime they mention the word "airlock." Bubbling that steady for 11 days implys to me that there might be something else at work here such as an infection or not enough yeast pitched to begin with.
 
First, I have seperated the idea that the airlock bubbling and fermentation are two seperate things. I only use the airlock as a guide and my experience is that this is the first time I have had bubbling going steady for 11 days and at the same rate. It was something new to me being much less experienced in brewing than most people on this board. I thought while I was at the computer and this scenario was fresh in my mind I would get another opinion.

Again there are two batches brewed on the same day with very little variance in technique. Batch #1 is in a glass carboy. Batch # 2 is in a plastic fermentation bucket. I live in the country so there are no vibrations from the street and neither beer has been moved since I placed them there originally. EDIT: I'm using a blow off tube into a bucket of water for both beers. I was going to switch off to an airlock upon transfer.

When I get home from work tonight I will take a hydrometer sample from each and gather ambient temp and report back.

Thats all I can think of right now.

EDIT: My apologies if I have wasted anyones time.

Nothing at all to apologize for, of course. And you are absolutely right...if you see something unusual, it is worth investigating further. It very well may still be fermenting, in which case you it might be worth figuring out why that is the case.

Gas saturation is weird. We all learned solubility rules in high school chemistry, but beer can get supersaturated pretty significantly if it is sitting still. Anybody who has had to mechanically degas a batch of wine will tell you how ridiculously much CO2 can come out of otherwise normal looking liquid. Even if (and perhaps especially if) there are no physical vibrations where you are storing the beer, it can bleed off CO2 for a long, long time.

Krausen is weirder. I talked to a chemist who researches foam a while back and asked her about why krausen rises and falls, and she listed a huge number of factors that can come into play. I've got a california common that is still holding a krausen even though it has been at final gravity for nearly three weeks now. I don't have an explanation for it.

All these things should definitely be suggestive, just like you have said. The arguments that this thread seems to have inspired aside, your intuitions are good. Let us know what you find. :mug:
 
The problem is you give the same cut and paste response every time you see the words fermentation and air lock bubbling.



The OP was noticing something unusual for the vessel, yeast pitch, and temp that he usually ferments at. Rather than throwing out your trademark response, maybe you could try and actually help them figure out WHY the beer is doing what it is doing. Bubbling every 5 seconds would be HIGHLY unusual for it to be just CO2 off gassing due to temp change or vibrations, especially with a blow off tube.

Just because people feel dumb when they read your degrading and annoying rant and decide not to argue with you and just "RDWHAHB" doesn't mean you are right 90% of the time.

And I'm not trolling you. Why don't you honestly read your cut and paste "airlock" post sometime and ask yourself if you feel that it is not degrading to the person and if it actually helps them understand the science of brewing? Yes, the OP needs to take a hydro reading, but you don't have to give them the screws everytime they mention the word "airlock." Bubbling that steady for 11 days implys to me that there might be something else at work here such as an infection or not enough yeast pitched to begin with.

Said beautifully!
I have had the same thoughts as you, Ive been here a very short time, have little to no brewing experience, and I am very put off by the canned response and it makes me and possibly others want to go elsewhere for discussions.
 
Said beautifully!
I have had the same thoughts as you, Ive been here a very short time, have little to no brewing experience, and I am very put off by the canned response and it makes me and possibly others want to go elsewhere for discussions.

Thank you for the kind words. That is the reason that I go after Revvy when I see posts like that. It could very well be some strange atmospheric/vibration/degassing/CO2 blowoff phenomenon that the OP has going on, but wouldn't that be some nice information for us all to explore and discuss rather than making them feel stupid for noticing something that they haven't seen before and ending the whole conversation there? I see too many times where he makes a post like that and the OP says something like "yeah, I guess I should just RDWHAHB" when there might have been something a little more to explore and discuss. I am sure most newbies read that post and look at the post count and decide that they must be stupid for asking any questions at all. A HIGH POST COUNT DOES NOT MAKE SOMEONE AN EXPERT.
 
Thanks to all for the help on this.

Batch 1: OG 1.084 Current Gravity: 1.038 Temp of wort: 71/72 degrees
Batch 2: OG 1.090 Current Gravity: 1.020 Temp of wort: 72/73 degrees

Recipe calls for a final gravity of 1.020

Additional information:

Yeast: Pacific Ale WLP041

Taste test of batch 1 sample: Smelled like bread and I confirmed with my wife. The tatse was little sweet but didn't taste off or rancid.

Taste test of batch 2 sample: Smell was slightly different but again not off, not rancid. My wife describes it as smelling like yeast and kind of sweet. Taste was a more bitter but in a good way, again not rancid. I think b/c it has reach FG?

I don't think the krausen has fallen on either batch. Very thick layer on top like wet bread.

Original recipe:

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: dry, neutral
Yeast Starter: recommended
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
Original Gravity: 1.084
Final Gravity: 1.020
IBU: 81.4
Boiling Time (Minutes): 90
Color: 15.9
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7 days at 65º
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 days at 65º

Grains

15.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row)
0.50 lb Aromatic Malt
0.50 lb Biscuit Malt
0.50 lb Caramunich Malt
0.50 lb Special B Malt

Hops
1.00 oz Simicoe [12.2%] (70 min)
1.00 oz Chinook [11.4%] (45 min)
.75 oz Chinook [13.00%] (15 min)
1.00 oz Chinook [11.4%] (0 min)
1.5 oz Chinook [11.4%] (dry hop)

Mash in with 5.31 gallons of water to mash at 154º

Drain mash water
batch sparge once with 3 gallons of 180º water.
batch sparge again with 3 gallons of 180º water
 
The smells and tastes you are describing pretty much hit the nail on the head for what you should be tasting in two beers at these stages in production, but it is strange that they are so different.

1) I am assuming they were produced at the same time...why so different in OG? What other differences are there between them?

2) Which was the one that was continuing to bubble?

3) How much and what kind of yeast?
 
1. Both beers produced on the same day it was a back to back beer session. On Batch one I missed the mash temp by 2 degrees and it dropped by maybe 2 degrees during the 60 min mash. Batch 2 I hit my mash temp at 154 it was odd it didn't drop but increased by one degree. I will admit the one mistake I made on batch 2 was I got busy and forgot to add the hops at flame out

2. Both batches were continuing to bubble even last night when I took the hydro sample they were still close to a rate of one per 5 seconds. Batch 1 was less vigorous and the bubble was smaller. Batch 2 the bubble was larger and more vigorous. Batch 2 is the one that has hit terminal gravity which I thought odd considering it was the more vigorous one.

3. For each batch I made a seperate starter using 2 cups of water, and one vial each of Pacific Ale WLP041 (liquid). My starter was made approximately 48 hours ahead of pitching. I aerated both by tipping fermenter on edge and swirling for several minutes.
 
1. Both beers produced on the same day it was a back to back beer session. On Batch one I missed the mash temp by 2 degrees and it dropped by maybe 2 degrees during the 60 min mash. Batch 2 I hit my mash temp at 154 it was odd it didn't drop but increased by one degree. I will admit the one mistake I made on batch 2 was I got busy and forgot to add the hops at flame out

This makes me think that you've got uneven temperature patterns in your mash. When you pour your strike water in, stir like mad for a good three or four minutes. A couple of degrees is going to make or break your beer, but what you are describing makes me distrust your readings a bit. The presence or absence of hops shouldn't substantially affect your attenuation.

2. Both batches were continuing to bubble even last night when I took the hydro sample they were still close to a rate of one per 5 seconds. Batch 1 was less vigorous and the bubble was smaller. Batch 2 the bubble was larger and more vigorous. Batch 2 is the one that has hit terminal gravity which I thought odd considering it was the more vigorous one.

This makes me think it was, in fact, just off-gassing. The "finished" beer will have more CO2 to vent. The $10,000 question now is whether batch 1 is actually finished or if it is still going. Another hydro reading in 24-48 hours will answer that.

3. For each batch I made a seperate starter using 2 cups of water, and one vial each of Pacific Ale WLP041 (liquid). My starter was made approximately 48 hours ahead of pitching. I aerated both by tipping fermenter on edge and swirling for several minutes.

What gravity was the starter? 2 cups is a mighty, mighty tiny starter for a beer this big. At that innoculation rate, the growth charts tell me that you'll be getting only about 12% growth. You want more on the order of a 2L starter for 100% growth.
 
My answers got embeded into your responses.

This makes me think that you've got uneven temperature patterns in your mash. When you pour your strike water in, stir like mad for a good three or four minutes. A couple of degrees is going to make or break your beer, but what you are describing makes me distrust your readings a bit. The presence or absence of hops shouldn't substantially affect your attenuation.

Good tip. I actually added 1/2 the grain stirred in and then added the rest of the grain and stirred in. I probably didn't stir for 3 minutes. It was cold that day and I was worried about losing heat in the mash. My mash tun is a 10 gallon igloo water cooler with a SS false bottom.

This makes me think it was, in fact, just off-gassing. The "finished" beer will have more CO2 to vent. The $10,000 question now is whether batch 1 is actually finished or if it is still going. Another hydro reading in 24-48 hours will answer that.

I'll take another hydro reading tomorow night and report back. I'm hoping it still has some more fermentation to go since the FG is not nearly low enough.

What gravity was the starter? 2 cups is a mighty, mighty tiny starter for a beer this big. At that innoculation rate, the growth charts tell me that you'll be getting only about 12% growth. You want more on the order of a 2L starter for 100% growth.


I didn't hydro the starter. I see your point on the starte being too small. Unfortunately I was following the directions of the LHBS. I find myself brewing a lot of beers in this ABV range so it sounds like I need to make bigger starters.


This was my 5th AG batch.... so much to learn.
 
I didn't hydro the starter. I see your point on the starte being too small. Unfortunately I was following the directions of the LHBS. I find myself brewing a lot of beers in this ABV range so it sounds like I need to make bigger starters.

This was my 5th AG batch.... so much to learn.

Always more to learn :D How much DME did you put in the starter? We can figure out the starter gravity from that.
 
I cup for each starter.

That should be about 1.033...which sounds right. The next thing to figure out is if batch 1 is still fermenting. Once we've got another gravity reading on that, we can start strategerizing. Batch 2 has likely finished active fermentation, but should probably sit on the yeast for a few more weeks to clean up.
 
Thank you MalFet.

Look at how much more information can be exchanged and shared, and how much learning can go on when we don't just slam someone for mentioning that their airlock was bubbling. There are a lot of other threads that have ended with "Well, I guess I should just let it go another couple weeks and relax" rather than sharing the details and helping a new brewer refine their process.

Sorry to those who might find my approach offending, but I am trying to get more people to understand the process and what they can do to make the best beer instead of just "RDWHAHB." I would rather "RAHAKAB" (Relax And Have A Kick Ass Beer)
 
I will take another reading tomorrow night which will been 48 hours.

Thanks for the time you've put into this answer. I really appreciate it.
 
Sometimes you just have to let the yeast do it thing. I have done quite a few 8 gal batches split up between to 5 gal fermenters and sometime they ferment differently, and thats with the same wort and starter. They normally turn out the same in the end. But since your wort gravity is different for the two batches you'll probably be able to tell a difference between the two.
 
Thank you MalFet.

Look at how much more information can be exchanged and shared, and how much learning can go on when we don't just slam someone for mentioning that their airlock was bubbling. There are a lot of other threads that have ended with "Well, I guess I should just let it go another couple weeks and relax" rather than sharing the details and helping a new brewer refine their process.

Sorry to those who might find my approach offending, but I am trying to get more people to understand the process and what they can do to make the best beer instead of just "RDWHAHB." I would rather "RAHAKAB" (Relax And Have A Kick Ass Beer)

:mug:
 
I cup for each starter.

In general, it is better to weigh the amount of DME added rather than using cup measurements. One cup may not actually be one cup if it is not well compacted. This can offset your starter gravity and therefore the health of the yeast.
 
In general, it is better to weigh the amount of DME added rather than using cup measurements. One cup may not actually be one cup if it is not well compacted. This can offset your starter gravity and therefore the health of the yeast.

I have since purchased a nice digital scale. I think I need to do more research on starters to understand more of the science behind them. The directions provided by the LHBS are nice but I have found to be a little lacking the deeper i have gotten into brewing and understanding the science.
 
I have since purchased a nice digital scale. I think I need to do more research on starters to understand more of the science behind them. The directions provided by the LHBS are nice but I have found to be a little lacking the deeper i have gotten into brewing and understanding the science.

I would strongly recommend the book "Yeast" by Jamil Z. and Chris White for an in depth discussion of yeast and fermentation. I would also recommend Palmer's "How to Brew" if you don't already own it. These are my two most valuable Home Brew books.
 
Fascinating article. What i take from it for my above scenario is:

1. I probably under pitched to begin with. Based on the math in this article for this beer I would have needed something like 298,065,000,000 yeast cells (assuming I did the math correctly). I probably had at best 100B yeast cells.

2. I also believe that I made my yeast starter too early. In the article it talks about for small starters you want to pitch within 6 to 8 hours. I made my starter 48 hours ahead of time

3. I also believe I used too little DME in my starter. I believe I would have needed another 1/2 cup of DME for the correct amount.

Thanks for teaching me how to fish.

If you guys are ever in Richmond let me know the beers are on me. :mug:
 
Fascinating article. What i take from it for my above scenario is:

1. I probably under pitched to begin with. Based on the math in this article for this beer I would have needed something like 298,065,000,000 yeast cells (assuming I did the math correctly). I probably had at best 100B yeast cells.

2. I also believe that I made my yeast starter too early. In the article it talks about for small starters you want to pitch within 6 to 8 hours. I made my starter 48 hours ahead of time

3. I also believe I used too little DME in my starter. I believe I would have needed another 1/2 cup of DME for the correct amount.

Thanks for teaching me how to fish.

If you guys are ever in Richmond let me know the beers are on me. :mug:

Generally correct. The only thing I would comment on is pitching time. The community is more or less divided in half about pitching starters at high krausen vs. pitching starters after crash-cooling and decanting. The more research I do, the less I like the idea of pitching at high activity. Each step of my starters gets two days on the stir plate and two days in the fridge. That said, others might offer you other opinions.

1.040 is a good gravity for a starter, unless you are culturing from a very small number of cells to begin with (i.e., culturing dregs or from a frozen sample).
 
Update:

It's been 48 hours since the last gravity reading which was a clear 1.038. I took a new reading on batch 1 and it has come in at 1.032/1.034 so I believe it's still fermenting. I think this beer will need to continue to ferment in primary for at least another week.

I didn't take a gravity reading on batch 2 since it has already reach terminal gravity.
 
Update:

It's been 48 hours since the last gravity reading which was a clear 1.038. I took a new reading on batch 1 and it has come in at 1.032/1.034 so I believe it's still fermenting. I think this beer will need to continue to ferment in primary for at least another week.

I didn't take a gravity reading on batch 2 since it has already reach terminal gravity.

Great! Do take another reading of batch 2 at some point, just to make sure nothing weird is happening. For the future, the starter stuff I mentioned should help you to get steadier fermentation.
 
I'm brewing a porter based on George Washington's porter recipe on Presidents day and made sure I have enough yeast.

One other thought. This morning I gave batch 1 a good swirl and double wrapped in with towels to bring the temp up. So I think that may have got it going again.

Thanks again for all the advice.
 
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