Lagering in plastic pale

Good day.

Is it common practice to lager in a plastic pale or should I transfer to a carboy prior to lagering? I'm nervous about leaving it in there for 4 weeks. My recipe doesn't mention transferring to a carboy..

Thanks!

P.S. This is my first attempt at a Pilsner! I have a fridge to work with!

No worries about lagering in your fermenter (plastic pale). It's definitely more important to just lager it, than to worry about the container type (plastic, glass, primary fermenter, etc).

Enjoy!

Why would it matter if it is in a bucket or carboy? I've never lagered before, but I've sure make a **** load of ale in buckets and carboys. I personally prefer my buckets. I seem to make less mess. What's the difference other than the fermentation temps?

The worry is that plastic does not completely provide a barrier to oxygen. Over time, oxygen can penetrate the plastic and oxidize the beer. I've been concerned about lagering in plastic buckets for this reason. However, oxidation reactions are also a function of temperature, and at lagering temperatures should occur very slowly. I'm not an expert on it, so I can't provide details on what rate oxygen penetration and oxidation reactions occur. However, the last lager I did was done completely in a plastic bucket for 2 months (1 month fermentation and 1 month lager) and it tastes great, no oxidation detectable.

Isn't the debate over oxygen permeating through plastic when you use bottles like those from the drinking water chillers and not Better Bottles or plastic fermentation buckets?

I had a German Altbier, yes an ale, but still, in a plastic primary for 8 weeks and it was one of the best beers I've made. I have a Rauchbier that's been in the plastic primary for the initial fermentation, a 3 day diacytel rest, and now is lagering between 41-45* and isn't showing any signs of doing anything but being awesome.

I was more worried about oxygen getting to the beer because buckets aren't airtight unless you snap the lid. Even then.. not as air tight as a carboy with airlock.

I use a bucket for my ales, but use a carboy for my lagers. I feel it's safer for some reason.

The worry isn't the permeability of the ale pail plastic- it's the wide headspace of a bucket that could be an issue.

Keeping a beer in primary for a few weeks is ok in a bucket- the wide headspace tends to be filled with co2 during fermentation. But since the beer is finished before lagering, I don't like the idea of lagering in a bucket at all. A carboy would minimize headspace, which is important after fermentation ends.

I leave my ales in primary for quite a while, but I'm more finicky with the lagers. I would never lager on the yeast cake. I would always rack to a carboy after the diacetyl rest, and lager in that carboy.

Yooper said:

The worry isn't the permeability of the ale pail plastic- it's the wide headspace of a bucket that could be an issue.

Keeping a beer in primary for a few weeks is ok in a bucket- the wide headspace tends to be filled with co2 during fermentation. But since the beer is finished before lagering, I don't like the idea of lagering in a bucket at all. A carboy would minimize headspace, which is important after fermentation ends.

I leave my ales in primary for quite a while, but I'm more finicky with the lagers. I would never lager on the yeast cake. I would always rack to a carboy after the diacetyl rest, and lager in that carboy.

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I have a lager going right now that finished the diacetyl rest on Sunday or Monday and is down to 41-45*F now. Still alright to rack to a carboy and then let it sit for 3-6 weeks?

jtkratzer said:

I have a lager going right now that finished the diacetyl rest on Sunday or Monday and is down to 41-45*F now. Still alright to rack to a carboy and then let it sit for 3-6 weeks?

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Sure! I like to lager one week for each 8-10 points of OG at 34 degrees. So, for an OG of 1.060, I'd lager for 6-8 weeks.

I'm doing it right now so I hope it's ok

Yooper said:

The worry isn't the permeability of the ale pail plastic- it's the wide headspace of a bucket that could be an issue.

Keeping a beer in primary for a few weeks is ok in a bucket- the wide headspace tends to be filled with co2 during fermentation. But since the beer is finished before lagering, I don't like the idea of lagering in a bucket at all. A carboy would minimize headspace, which is important after fermentation ends.

I leave my ales in primary for quite a while, but I'm more finicky with the lagers. I would never lager on the yeast cake. I would always rack to a carboy after the diacetyl rest, and lager in that carboy.

Click to expand...

Now I remember why I use a carboy for my lagers. Miss Yooper made me do it. My lagers are more sensitive than my ales are...

Yooper said:

Sure! I like to lager one week for each 8-10 points of OG at 34 degrees. So, for an OG of 1.060, I'd lager for 6-8 weeks.

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I don't think I can lager that long right now. I'm dependent on the cold weather to keep the unheated room above my garage at lager temps.

Is the lagering on the yeast cake the same debate as whether or not to secondary?

jtkratzer said:

I don't think I can lager that long right now. I'm dependent on the cold weather to keep the unheated room above my garage at lager temps.

Is the lagering on the yeast cake the same debate as whether or not to secondary?

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Yes, sort of. I don't know of any experienced brewers that will tell you that lagering on the yeast cake is a good idea though! There are some who may say, "I've done it and my lager was good!" but I don't think any experienced brewers will claim that it's a good practice or a good way to make a lager.

An ale has all sorts of depth and cool flavors in it, and 3-4 weeks on the yeast cake is just fine.

But for a lager, it's so crisp and "clean", or rather it should be- that any little flavor will show there. Esters, diacetyl, phenols, etc are completely out of place in a lager. The lagering should smooth out the hops polyphenols, reduce tannins, etc. But off-flavors like esters don't smooth out. That's why lagers are generally more difficult to brew- no place for slight hints of off-flavors to hide, and they should be "clean". Leaving a lager on a yeast cake for longer than primary and the diacetyl rest just won't give you the best lager you could have. Lagering on a yeast cake seems to just be lazy to me. I mean, a few weeks would be ok. But if you're lagering for 10-12 weeks, that's a long time to leave a beer on a yeast cake if the goal is to have a crisp clean lager.