F-I-L Asks If I Could Make Miller Lite

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jasonsbeer

jasonsbeer

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I know my father in law only drinks High Life Light, and sometimes keeps Miller Lite in the fridge. Armed with this knowledge, I brought some of my beer along to drink over Christmas. I packed Witbier, American Amber, and Double Chocolate stout. When I get here, I tell him that he's welcome to try anything he likes.

The first night, he drinks a Witbier. He doesn't say much. The next day he asks if any of the beers I brought were "not as strong". I'm thinking in my head, the Witbier is the "weakest" beer I brought. So I tell him they all have about the same alcohol content, but the other beers would have a stronger flavor. I tell him the Amber is pretty hoppy and the stout would have a dry chocolate taste. I tell him if he wants to try one of the others, he could open a bottle and try it, if he doesn't like it, I will finish it.

He opens a bottle of Amber, drinks about 1/2 of it in a glass and hands the bottle to me. He doesn't like the Hoppiness. OK, no big deal, I finish it. He then asks me "Could you make something like Miller Lite?". Now, instead of calling him a ********* supreme for asking me this question, I explain it in terms of economics. I tell him I'm not going to make a beer that can be purchased for $15 a case on sale almost any day of the week. Homebrewers, I say, are more likely to brew the expensive stuff because they can save money.

My wife's whole family are BMC drinkers. I wonder if there's any hope for them?
 
Honestly, the economic argument isn't the best, even for BMC. The money and time that homebrewer's spend on the hobby make any beer cheaper to buy commercially. Usually it's done for the joy and/or the ability to make unavailable styles. And, as much as BMC is derided in these forums, the fact remains that they are a very difficult style to make. The light color, light flavor and everything else is hard to make without noticeable flaws.

While the humorous side in me would like to tell you to drink some Barleywine, process it internally and then serve the results to your FIL as a BMC clone, the serious side suggests you brew a light British Bitter, or something like that, and see if he would like that.
 
While you could make a good lighter beer (Centennial Blonde etc), you just can't please everyone. I tried multiple times with my wife's extended family when I was living in Cleveland. I'd bring a growler of beer, everyone would try a sip or two, say "oh yea, pretty good", then go back to drinking Miller. As much as I'd like them to love my beer and want me to bring some over, I pretty much gave up.
 
My FIL isn't like this for me, my father is!

Every beer I let him taste "tastes like Guinness". I've made a joke out of it: I'm trying to see how far I can go with a no-where-near Guinness beer and still have him say it taste like Guinness! At least he drinks them I guess.
 
You should check out Biermuncher's Cream of Three Crops ale or my light blonde ale http://www.singingboysbrewing.com/blondeale.html These sorts of beers require attention, any flaws will shine through.

Also, I make a lot of draft-style sparkling cider - its light and crisp and a big hit with BMC drinkers. I think that, because its not beer, they're not comparing it to their favorite BMC. Its flavorful, but still easy to drink, light and crisp. http://www.singingboysbrewing.com/Apple-Cider.html and https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/easy-stove-top-pasteurizing-pics-193295/
 
It's not your job to convert them. People like what they like.

My thing about all this is....The craft beer industry has existed since right around the time I turned 21, about 24 years ago...at least that's when I first noticed there were OTHER beers around besides BMC....there was snpa, and bell's and sam adams starting to pop up in a few stores in Metro Detroit at that time, as well as imports like Guiness, Bredore's and Double Diamond (from England- the first non bmc bottled beer I ever bought)...This stuff was first in my awareness in the mid to late 80's....

In fact when I was underaged I had my first taste of bud, spat it out and made my decision that beer sucked...and drank other things in the interum, mostly wine, and bourbon...in fact the first legal drink I ever bought was a bottle of calvados. Yet, since I loved to read, I always heard about beers like guiness, and other things...so I kept hearing that there was "good beer" out there.

Then I turned 21 and shortly after, like I said above, I began to see these OTHER beers around in bars and better beer/wine stores around my college campus. Plus the first micro brewery was in a resteraunt near campus as well.

I think my first non BMC beer I tried in a bar, was a guiness....And, as much as I think little of it NOW, it was a soul changing moment...I truly found out that there was something better than a budlight out there.

The point being..There has been alternative to BMC somewhat readily available since probably 1985...and more and more everyday.

Despite bmc's control over distribution craft, or imported beer has managed to be available to one degree or another for a lond time.

And now with commercials for Sam Adams, and even a show about dogfish head on one of the most popular cable channels...it really is NOT invisible anymore...if it ever was...And I don't believe it ever was.

Just like it was my choice to explore the world of beer for 24 years, it has been other folks choice to make Budlight the best selling beer on the planet, despite the fact that personally it makes me want to puke. Craft beers make other folks want to puke...It's just the way it is.

It's not AHB's "fault" that their product is the top seller...Nor is it totally a vast conspiracy to manipulate the marketplace as some of us beer snobs want to convince ourselves (though it does go on to a greater or lesser extent) But it's NOT the main...

The main reason is that more folks like those safe, (flavorless to me) light lager style of beer.

And despite a 10% loss of sales over time...it's still going to be the top seller in the market place...

Why? Because the majority of folks choose it over the vast array of other products out there. It simply reflects the relatively safe tastes of human beings...especially the american populace.

Most people are afraid to try new things...so their horizens or limited...but there's also going to be folks, who DO try craft beers....and go back to BMC...because that's what they prefer....there's nothing wrong with them...it's just their choice....

Just like it is our choice to like the alternatives...that's just the way it is.

If you really wanted to you could brew a blonde, or a cream or a kolsh, or Biermuncher's cream of the 3 crops ale, which tends to appeal to BMC drinkers.

All-Grain - Cream of Three Crops (Cream Ale)

Heck you could even brew this popular recipe by Shenkerla;

All-Grain - Miller Lite (Really Triple Hopped) /

I've given up being upset with people's beer choices, Like I said above, I realized not to long ago that good beer's been around for as long as I've been legal, that means there been plenty of options for people to choose to like what they like. And apparantly more people like safe tasteless beers than what I consider "good beers."

Just means more for me. :mug:
 
Why don't you just try a lighter american lager? It won't be ready for new years, but maybe St. Patrick's day.
 
You know, my dad hates my "homebrew ****". That's what he calls it.

This past summer, he came for a visit with my nephews, brother, and sister-in-law. A fourteen hour drive each way, and it was HOT when they got here. I came outside with a cold beer for him. He said, "Oh, God- that's not that homebrew **** is it?". I told him to shut up and drink it. He took a sip, and then said, "Oh, it's MGD! Thank you!"

It wasn't- it was a cream ale that I brewed near lager temperatures. He and my brother kicked that keg in one day. Then they had to go out and buy a case of MGD for the rest of the weekend.

That is the ONLY homebrewed beer my brother, sister-in-law and dad have enjoyed. I'm glad they enjoyed it- but I think that I can brew beer that is better so I don't brew it more than once or twice a year, for summer time.

I don't even try to brew beers to please others any more. I brew what I brew, unless I have a special request for an event. It's just not worth it.
 
Edcculus said:
While you could make a good lighter beer (Centennial Blonde etc), you just can't please everyone. I tried multiple times with my wife's extended family when I was living in Cleveland. I'd bring a growler of beer, everyone would try a sip or two, say "oh yea, pretty good", then go back to drinking Miller. As much as I'd like them to love my beer and want me to bring some over, I pretty much gave up.
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+1 to Ed, don't take it personally or to heart. Remember, many people would prefer to eat at McDonalds than a homecooked meal.
 
Revvy said:
I've given up being upset with people's beer choices, Like I said above, I realized not to long ago that good beer's been around for as long as I've been legal, that means there been plenty of options for people to choose to like what they like. And apparantly more people like safe tasteless beers than what I consider "good beers."
Click to expand...

Revvy, while I agree with your reply, I think it's important to remind people that while BMC may seem flavorless when compared to hoppy ales and fruity lambics and so many other of our creations, they are still good beers in their own right. By that I mean that, even if they are not to your liking, within their style, they are very good beers.
 
I believe there are 2 types of beer.

1. Virtually flavorless. Meant to be used as an alcohol delivery system.
2. Beer that is full of flavor. Consumed for the flavor.

You can make him a can of Coopers lager in about 5 minutes. 6 gallons of smooth nothingness. Keep him happy and don't waste hours making it.

Forrest
 
Ace_Club said:
Revvy, while I agree with your reply, I think it's important to remind people that while BMC may seem flavorless when compared to hoppy ales and fruity lambics and so many other of our creations, they are still good beers in their own right. By that I mean that, even if they are not to your liking, within their style, they are very good beers.
Click to expand...

Oh you don't have to remind me about that, I've said so much on here 100's of times, usually the bud bashing threads that we used to get here quite often. Which hasn't happened in a long time. I think Maureen Ogle's book shut down a lot of the arguments people use to have to bash bud. The whole nonsense the rice and corn were added to cut costs, when it was proven that that actually made Budwieser the most expensive beer in it's time. She unintentionally disarmed a lot of the arguments we beer snobs used to use to make us feel all warm and fuzzy inside....or at least to feel surperior.
 
Austinhomebrew said:
I believe there are 2 types of beer.

1. Virtually flavorless. Meant to be used as an alcohol delivery system.
2. Beer that is full of flavor. Consumed for the flavor.

You can make him a can of Coopers lager in about 5 minutes. 6 gallons of smooth nothingness. Keep him happy and don't waste hours making it.

Forrest
Click to expand...

See this is the type of stupid crap that is commonly spouted.
 
But what about the dead you woman found in Bush's mansion the other day. Also, when he crashed his corvette and killed another young woman.

Forrest
 
Revvy said:
Oh you don't have to remind me about that, I've said so much on here 100's of times, usually the bud bashing threads that we used to get here quite often. Which hasn't happened in a long time. I think Maureen Ogle's book shut down a lot of the arguments people use to have to bash bud. The whole nonsense the rice and corn were added to cut costs, when it was proven that that actually made Budwieser the most expensive beer in it's time. She unintentionally disarmed a lot of the arguments we beer snobs used to use to make us feel all warm and fuzzy inside....or at least to feel surperior.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...I'm not familiar with the book. I'll have to search for it on Amazon. Sounds like an interesting read.
 
Austinhomebrew said:
Why is that stupid? I have respect for both but the beer snobs say "How can you drink that it doesn't have any flavor". It is not the purpose of the beer.
Click to expand...

Flavor in this case is completely subjective. It is the purpose of the beer in question. That's the whole point of the style.

"Flavor: Crisp and dry flavor with some low levels of grainy or corn-like sweetness. Hop flavor ranges from none to low levels. Hop bitterness at low level. Balance may vary from slightly malty to slightly bitter, but is relatively close to even. High levels of carbonation may provide a slight acidity or dry "sting." No diacetyl. No fruitiness."

It can easily be said that high-alcohol brews (barleywines, RIS, etc.) are done as vehicles for drunkenness. To simply deride the BMC style with an offhanded comment like that is naive, regardless of what the beer snobs say.
 
Bernie Brewer said:
Oh, come on- brew one for him. Prove to yourself and him that you can do it. Then give it all away if you don't want it. You can make an all-grain batch of an American Light Lager for under 15 bucks, yeast included:

Fizzy Yellow Beer for the Masses
Click to expand...

I will say that is not too far astray from my own cream ale, though I will say that your total grain weight, is usually what I use in a 2.5 gallon batch.

:D
 
Revvy said:
I won't make any comments about making money off of a style that you quite vehemently despise. ;)

You could stand up higher to your guns, and refuse to sell any kits for that style of beer.
Click to expand...

Or maybe he should redo the website to have two categories: Flavored Beer Kits and Un-flavored "I Wanna Get Drunk" Beer Kits. :p
 
I will say this is the most civilized discussion of BMC I have seen on here. I just tell people who ask me about making miller lite that it is an incredibly difficult style to brew because any flaws will be apparent. So, if I can't make that style of beer near as good as them then I would just buy it. It makes them feel superior enough to never ask me again and I don't really care what they think of my beer. I know plenty of beer snobs that love my beer. I am however considering stepping up to the challenge and trying to make one this year.
 
Austinhomebrew said:
I believe there are 2 types of beer.
1. Virtually flavorless. Meant to be used as an alcohol delivery system.
2. Beer that is full of flavor. Consumed for the flavor
Forrest
Click to expand...
Ace_Club said:
Flavor in this case is completely subjective . . . To simply deride the BMC style with an offhanded comment like that is naive, regardless of what the beer snobs say.
Click to expand...
I think that where Forrest went wrong was saying, “there are 2 types of beer.” What he should have said is that there are two types of beer drinkers. Those who are looking for a alcohol delivery system and those looking for flavor (plus alcohol. :cross:)

Sure, there are drinkers who have experienced the wide variety of beer styles that are available and enjoy BMC beers. To imply that anything but a very small minority of BMC drinkers fall into the flavor seeking category is naïve and just argumentative on your part. I have no data to prove it, but I think it’s safe to say that the large majority of BMC drinkers are happy to drink an ice cold, flavorless, yellow, fizzy drink for the purpose of catching a buzz.

To try to cater your brewing to patronize this type of drinker is an interesting experiment, but beyond that, if it’s not a style that you enjoy, you’re wasting valuable brew time.
 
Ace_Club said:
It can easily be said that high-alcohol brews (barleywines, RIS, etc.) are done as vehicles for drunkenness. To simply deride the BMC style with an offhanded comment like that is naive, regardless of what the beer snobs say.
Click to expand...

It could be said about barley wines but no one says that and it is not really true.

I am not deriding BMC style beers. They are the chosen style when you want to drink a 12 pack. 78% of the beer consumed in Texas is Bud light, Miller light, or Coors light.
 
jasonsbeer said:
I know my father in law only drinks High Life Light...

.
.
.
.

He then asks me "Could you make something like Miller Lite?". Now, instead of calling him a ********* supreme for asking me this question...
Click to expand...

I think I figured out where you went wrong.
 
Austinhomebrew said:
I am not deriding BMC style beers.
Click to expand...

Ummm...your initial post was nothing but derision towards BMC.

Regardless, the fact remains that the style of beers that BMC fall into is a supremely difficult type of beer to make. We should all strive to become brewers of the skill level that could pull off those types of beers at that level of quality.
 
Ace_Club said:
Ummm...your initial post was nothing but derision towards BMC.

Regardless, the fact remains that the style of beers that BMC fall into is a supremely difficult type of beer to make. We should all strive to become brewers of the skill level that could pull off those types of beers at that level of quality.
Click to expand...

dude Ive been arguing this point for years. This forum loves to hate on American Light lagers, but if I start bashing on extract brewers my threads get locked. Go figure.

But like you said, the light lager is one of the hardest styles of beers to make. Any flaw is immediately apparent, but HBT loves to hate the fizzy yellow
 
Ace_Club said:
Regardless, the fact remains that the style of beers that BMC fall into is a supremely difficult type of beer to make. We should all strive to become brewers of the skill level that could pull off those types of beers at that level of quality.
Click to expand...
I think you're confusing art with science. You're also confusing quality with redundancy. You’re confusing appreciation with indifference. I find more inspiration in a craft brewery constantly pushing the limits of innovation than in a factory beer that's success is based on mechanical reproduction of a product. BMC isn't about skill. It's about money. What makes it hard to reproduce on a homebrew level is their massive resources. They've done for beer what McDonalds has done for the hamburger. It seems people find comfort in knowing they can get the same product anywhere they happen to be.

But hey, if striving for boring and bland because of its level of difficulty floats your boat, happy sailing.
 
AnOldUR said:
I think you're confusing art with science. You're also confusing quality with redundancy. You’re confusing appreciation with indifference. I find more inspiration in a craft brewery constantly pushing the limits of innovation than in a factory beer that's success is based on mechanical reproduction of a product. BMC isn't about skill. It's about money. What makes it hard to reproduce on a homebrew level is their massive resources. They've done for beer what McDonalds has done for the hamburger. It seems people find comfort in knowing they can get the same thing anywhere they happen to be.

But hey, if striving for boring and bland because of its level of difficulty floats your boat, happy sailing.
Click to expand...

Seriously? I don't even know where to begin. For one, I'd like to see you try and make a clone of a BMC. Don't come back with "I don't like that swill so why should I try" crap. You don't because any flaws that are masked by the hoppiness or other flavors in your current setup would be magnified to the point of it not coming out well.

Your statement of "It seems people find comfort in knowing they can get the same thing anywhere they happen to be" applies to every single beer. You know that if you pick up a bottle of Arrogant Bastard in Chicago, it's going to be the same as a bottle on the East Coast.

And BMC is very much about skill. To think otherwise is to be an EAC, with an emphasis on the AC. :D
 
I used to nag people about their beer choices, I am a confirmed beer snob through-and-through. Now I only nag my good friends. They know I'm yanking their chains and I'm not being too serious. I'm the type of person that likes to try new things - expand your horizons young man. I guess I try to impose that attitude on others sometimes.

I'm at the stage where I want to perfect recipes and procedures for the styles I enjoy. American lagers are not one of those styles, although I recognize they are very popular (duh!). After I've conquered my favorite styles, I might move on to other styles I may have less appreciation for. Expand your horizons young man!
 
That's perfectly fine. I'm not arguing this because I'm a huge fan of BMC. I'm not. I prefer ales. However, it irks me to see them so constantly derided. There's a reason why they are considered the examples of the BJCP style category. To simply say you can make better beer than BMC when you're talking about a stout or IPA or something other than American Light Lager is comparing apples to oranges and is based on your personal taste preferences. To truly make that statement, you'd need to make a clone and have it win out in a blind taste test. I'm not saying I'm about to do that, hell, I don't even lager yet. But until you do, show at least some respect to a well made American Light Lager.
 
Ace_Club said:
And BMC is very much about skill. To think otherwise is to be an EAC, with an emphasis on the AC. :D
Click to expand...

I'd urge you to consider stopping insulting people who disagree with you.

Yes, BMC is ridiculously difficult to clone. But that doesn't necessarily mean its about skill. OldUR is right, BMC is certainly about mass production and mass marketing. Both statements can be correct.

I also agree with Forrest - one of the very appealing aspects of BMC to the many people who enjoy it is that its an easy to drink alcohol delivery system. He's not a snob to point that out.

You're right, of course, that there are some people here who are ridiculous in their snobbery, but you're insulting two people who aren't, in my opinion.
 
Ace_Club said:
I'd like to see you try and make a clone of a BMC . . .You don't because any flaws that are masked by the hoppiness or other flavors in your current setup would be magnified to the point of it not coming out well.
Click to expand...
You’re right. My homebrew setup can’t match the resources of a BMC.

Ace_Club said:
Don't come back with "I don't like that swill so why should I try" crap
Click to expand...
Well, it’s true, but my opinion has nothing to do with this augment.

Ace_Club said:
Your statement of "It seems people find comfort in knowing they can get the same thing anywhere they happen to be" applies to every single beer. You know that if you pick up a bottle of Arrogant Bastard in Chicago, it's going to be the same as a bottle on the East.
Click to expand...
Again true, but if I limited myself to only drinking Arrogant Bastard you’d have a point. But unlike most BMC drinkers, I enjoy variety.

Ace_Club said:
And BMC is very much about skill. To think otherwise is to be an EAC, with an emphasis on the AC
Click to expand...
As I said, I think it’s about resources not skill.




And your calling me the “C” word. Very classy!
 

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