New to Star San - Please give me warnings

I usually use one step (hydrogen peroxide) since that was all that was available until recently and I just got me hands on some star san. I'm trying to figure out how best to change my process to use it. And was wondering what I'll destroy if I get it wrong. Please give me any warnings.

Fer instance, i just read a post about how star san will melt vinyl tubing and turn it into soap. And that's significant since my process was generally to fill my bottling bucket with sterilizer and then my hose, funnel, airlocks, bungs, etc for over 30 minutes. And then drain partially, cap the bucket and then shake it around before draining the rest. I also used to rinse but I can drop that with star san. Thing is, I would have destroyed my hose and (i dunno) maybe exposed my beer to some plastic toxins.

I don't have a silicon hose yet, and it seems I'll have to order that online. That not an issue with silicone? what about rubber bungs or plastics in the funnel?

I also plan to create a 5 gallon batch and store it in an extra carboy with a rubber bung capping it, covered with an old T shirt. When needed I'll just siphon off a gallon for use (now that I have a vinator, I'll need a lot less), and then dump it back into the carboy for future use.

So, please take me to school and tell me how not to destroy my stuff. BTW, my current sterilizer is sticky so small drippings on the floor manage to track everywhere so I use old towels in the kitchen floor in case there are and incidents. Have one on the counter where the bottling bucket resides. I use the bottling bucket to 'drop' the wort via a tub into a glass carboy which is very effective at aerating the wort and also lowers the temp. Is star san sticky too? Will it destroy a counter top AFTER it's been mixed with water?

Thanks

Also, does it matter if I mix up 2.5 gallons of the stuff and store in a 5 gallon carboy? Or can I store in old 2 liter pop bottles?

Don't fear the foam! For instance, when bottling I give the inverted bottle a squirt or two, let the excess drip out, and then immediately fill the bottle. I bought an empty squirt bottle at wally world and keep some mixed all the time. SWIMBO likes to use it to sanitize the kitchen counters after cleaning it. Others have kept buckets of it around for weeks with no problems.

I've never heard of the vinyl tubing melting thing. Maybe if you store the vinyl tubing in a working solution of Star San it would do that over a period of weeks or something. I've used Star San to sanitize vinyl tubing before on bottling days. Never had a problem.

Star San in working solution form is pretty mild. I've never stained anything with it, and I spray that stuff all over the place on brew days. You should be careful with it in concentrated form, of course.

I'd go with a five gallon plastic bucket with a lid for your working solution. Using it from a carboy wouldn't be as useful, since it's helpful to dunk things in it. And also get a spray bottle and store some in there. It's helpful to spray down your hands and other things that can't be dunked in the bucket.

My hands got really dry after using Star San for the first few times, but now it doesn't bother my hands anymore.

I have hard water at my house, so I use distilled water whenever I make up a new batch of Star San.

Don't fear the foam!

When I leave my tubing in my blow off bottle for a week it gets a little slimy. Also you don't need to soak things in San for 30 minutes. 2 minutes is more than enough.

I dunno about this melting plastics like vinyl. I have had StarSan in a homer bucket for 6 months and not had any issues with it. I typically store my carboys filled with StarSan solution, pour it into homers when I am using the carboys, and then back when done. I test the solution periodically with a pH meter and get rid of it when it starts to apprach a pH of 3.

StarSan is an acid, weak, but none the less an acid. It is not sticky. I would not let it sit for any significant amount of time on any surface I cared about, though I have never had an issue with it.

Store it in a bucket or carboy. Don't store it in a keg or other stainless steel container.

with distilled water it will last a long time if it gets milky make a new batch

I use it on vinyl all the time, no problems for me.

Don't use it above 120F. Not sure why, but i've even called 5-star and they said the same w/o stating why....

Mine starts out "milky" because it interacts with something in my water. Never had a problem with it...

I have called star san. They told me that as long as the ph in the star san/ water mix is below 3.0, it is effective. And that if I don't have ph strips then about 3 months storage in a 5 gal bucket is good. Thats what I do. No slimyness so far. Hope this helps!

Star San does not melt vinyl hoses or render them unsafe in any way. I use Vinyl hoses (just called my LHBS to verify the hoses I buy there) and leave them in buckets of Star San for sometimes hours at a time while brewing, as they await use. Where did you read about this? I don't know of any brewing equipment that star san can't be used for.

Off the top of my head and to your questions -

Star San will not destroy a counter top once diluted (it would evaporate long before it could cause a problem). In its concentrated form, however, yes it can leave permanent marks; always wipe off the outside of the Star San bottle (sides, bottom, etc.) before putting it down somewhere. At the very least, put it on a plate or in the sink with the water running if you can't wipe it down right away.

Rinse your hands in the sink anytime you handle the bottle/dilute it, just in case you got any concentrated star san on yourself.

I second the note about it drying out your hands. It did for me at first, too, but like Lando, my skin no longer reacts to it at all. I dilute the recommended amount on the bottle (1 oz to 5 gallons water).

Star San's active ingredient is the same acid that's in soda (phosphoric). Yeast will literally eat it. It has no flavor, and some people have racked beer on quite a bit of Star San with no adverse affects, specifically to flavor. I believe John Palmer was one of the people who did a test like this.

It does not affect head retention.

Don't fear the foam. I frequently rack beer onto tons of bubbles/foam that won't drain from a carboy (Star San tends to foam up a lot when shaken/disturbed). No issues at all. The foam helps, if anything - if would-be infection does fall into a carboy, the bubbles are enough to kill it. Don't spit in it to test or anything, but you get the idea.

You can mix up to a concentration of 1 oz to 3 gallons and still be no-rinse. Any more concentrated than that requires rinsing. But, just stick with 1 oz per 5 gallons; 1 oz to 3 gallons is overkill unless you're currently fighting a house germ that's been infecting all your batches.

Tap water (especially hard water) tends to make Star San foggy/cloudy. It doesn't last more than about a day in most ~100 or so ppm tap water. Once star san's pH goes above 3.0, it is no longer effective as a sanitizer. The cloudier the solution, the higher the pH probably is. Now, if you dilute Star San with distilled water or RO (reverse osmosis purified) water, it can last months and months if you only put pre-cleaned items into it (e.g. don't take a hydro reading, empty the thief and then drop it in the star san bucket). I buy 5 gallons of distilled water at the grocery store, keep in a 5 gallon work bucket with lid. Your Star San will last much longer this way, and it will save you money in the long run. If you steal Star San from the bucket, only put it back if you've kept the stolen portion clean.

Water first, then add the Star San, and stir in gently. It mixes readily and the less you splash it the less foam you will need to deal with. Foamy buckets can make hydrometer readings hard because the foam will block your view of the hydrometer in your thief.

Star San is not sticky.

You only need to soak for 30 seconds to sanitize (per the creator of Star San). It says a minute on the bottle because it has to by law. It's not a minute; it's 30 seconds.

Invest in a spray bottle. Fill with diluted distilled-water star san and use it to sanitize things. You can reuse it for months and months. Also, you can unscrew the top and use it to fill airlocks. Much safer than filling with water; similar to filling airlocks with vodka.

If you buy one extra 1 gallon jug of distilled water, you can eyeball a dilution of about 1/4 to 1/5 of an ounce. Mark the jug so no one drinks it and use that for small sanitizing projects like soaking airlocks and rubber bungs in a bowl.

Yes you can store Star San in other plastic containers like soda bottles, etc.

You will splash diluted Star San in your eye at some point. Don't panic. Just flush with water for a minute. I've done this to myself at least twice (I'm an idiot); I can still see fine.

Star San is only effective when wet. If you sanitize something, then let it dry, it is no longer sanitized.

Good call on the vinator. Vinator + star san + bottle tree = easy easy bottling. Drop the caps right in the vinator bowl, and pick em out as you go.

Here's an interview with the creator of Star San that you will probably find very informative. They also discuss bleach.
http://ec.libsyn.com/p/3/9/0/390da9...1ce3dae902ea1d01cf8e31d1ce5d0cb6&c_id=1452161

Veronis said:

Tap water (especially hard water) tends to make Star San foggy/cloudy. It doesn't last more than about a day. Once the pH goes above 3, it is no longer effective as a sanitizer. The cloudier the solution, the higher the pH probably is. Now, if you dilute Star San with distilled water or RO (reverse osmosis purified) water, it can last months and months if you only put pre-cleaned items into it. I buy 5 gallons of distilled water at the grocery store, keep in a 5 gallon work bucket with lid. Your Star San will last much longer this way, and it will save you money in the long run. If you steal Star San from the bucket, only put it back if you've kept the stolen portion clean.

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This isn't the case. Mine turns cloudy immediately and has a PH of less than 3 for 1-2 months. No infections here.

Good point. I shouldn't say "it doesn't last more than a day". If you can't test the pH, I wouldn't trust it past a day. Cloudy doesn't necessarily mean the pH is above 3.0.

If you take tap water from three locations and star san them, they will all turn cloudy. Let's say they're 100ppm, 200ppm, and 300ppm water. The cloudiest one (300ppm) is very likely going to have the highest pH.

Star San in distilled water remains crystal clear.

I find that unless I use distilled water, I can notice a powerful chemical aroma and taste that I don't like in my beer.

I find the easiest way to make StarSan is to take a gallon jug of distilled water and pour out a glug of it, then measure approximately 6ml of StarSan and pour directly into the jug. It stores just fine in there for several months. Pour it into a bucket if you need to, and when you're done pour it back into the jug or a 1-gallon glass jug if you don't trust the PET water jug.

Definitely get a heavy-duty spray bottle and fill it with StarSan. It is incredibly useful not just in brewing but in the kitchen - for sanitizing surfaces like a plastic cutting board after you've had chicken on it, for example. A 32oz spray bottle lasts for a while.

Veronis said:

Good point. I shouldn't say "it doesn't last more than a day". If you can't test the pH, I wouldn't trust it past a day. Cloudy doesn't necessarily mean the pH is above 3.0.

If you take tap water from three locations and star san them, they will all turn cloudy. Let's say they're 100ppm, 200ppm, and 300ppm water. The cloudiest one (300ppm) is very likely going to have the highest pH.

Star San in distilled water remains crystal clear.

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I always forget to buy distilled water at the store.

Avoid long exposure of soft metals like aluminum. If you expose aluminum to Star San for very long, it will pit the metal.

My local water turns milky when I add an ounce of StarSan to 5 gallons of tap water. I have used this same batch for as long as 6 months and it remains at a pH of 2.5. Generally I pitch it out because it is "dirty" (i.e. I drop crap in the bucket or things wash off something I put in the bucket) before the pH ever gets about 2.6 or 2.7. So what does this mean? Get a pH meter or strips if you are concerned about it. You can use them in brewing anyway to measure the pH of your mash and sparge water and adjust with phosphoric acid, if you care. Or just pitch it after a few weeks or months. StarSan is cheap, especially if you buy a gallon like I did in a group buy. I doubt I ever run out and I brew a lot.

Bottom line is the product is inexpensive, lasts a good while, is safe, and is yeast "food" so use it and RDWHAHB!

Cheers!

LandoLincoln said:

I've never heard of the vinyl tubing melting thing. ...

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Here's the link BTW.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/i-have-sticky-hose-324224/

and in response to m3n00b's comment, I only really soak for 30 minutes (more like 50) so that my current sanitiser dissolves fully. It's powder and always has some sediment. Plus I do other things while it's mixing, like get my equipment and ingredient ready to go. I've taken to brewing 3 batches in a day production style and the sanitizer can easily sit for 30 minutes while I fish out the carboys, bottles, whatever from storage. So now instead of being the first thing I do, prepping my sanitizer will be the last thing I do before starting the day.

stonebrewer said:

Store it in a bucket or carboy. Don't store it in a keg or other stainless steel container.

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I use swing top bottles! Is Star San bad for steel? will it destroy my bales?

My hoses and carboys caps will get slimy if I leave them in StarSan for an extended time (at least overnight). But in normal use, it's not an issue.

Husher said:

I use swing top bottles! Is Star San bad for steel? will it destroy my bales?

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Short term exposure should not hurt your steel. I actually leave it in kegs for days, but I have read (ON THE INTERNET, buyer beware) that you should not leave it long term as over a long period of time it could pit the metal. Your bottles should be fine. I routinely soak quick disconnects in it for days with no issues.

Thanks all for the advice. Since I bought 16 oz of it, I think I'll just bake up a gallon of the stuff using one of my kid's old plastic syringes. I shouldn't need more than that if spraying and sloshing. Cheers.

tap water, milky as hell immediately and no infections.....

Husher said:

I use swing top bottles! Is Star San bad for steel? will it destroy my bales?

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If you're just sanitizing on bottling day, they won't be exposed long enough to be damaged.

Here's a new question: Is there any danger if star san reacting with my other cleaners? I use Hydrogen peroxide (one step) and vinegar. For tough stains I will use the hydrogen peroxide (use to be my sanitizer), and rarely I'll use vinegar for crud and blowoff cleanup. I do use these things on different days and rinse thoroughly, but store in the same area (basement). I've assumed they react badly and try to keep apart and I'm just wondering if I'm paranoid.

The official answer is that Star San solutions should be clear and a pH below 3.5.

If you used Distilled water the solution would not turn cloudy. The product can react with hard water and turn cloudy. The Minerals in the water can react with the anionic portion of the star san and cause it to go bad. Yes, when this happens you should consider making a fresh solution. The cloudiness usually forms after a dwell time or when people try and store the solution for multiple weeks. If this is the case then, yes always start with a fresh solution.

Jon Herskovits
Five Star

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The conventional wisdom is that Star San is good below pH 3.0. Apparently conventional wisdom never read the label.

Phosphoric acid 50%
Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid 20%

The second ingredient is a detergent that reacts with calcium or magnesium to form a cloudy precipitate. This is the ‘slime’ that sometimes forms when people soak stuff long term. It comes from hard water, the vinyl is not dissolving.

No worries about your cleaning products having bad reactions. The one to worry about is to never mix bleach and vinegar directly. A better plan is to avoid using chlorine based cleaners altogether.

Wynne-R said:

Phosphoric acid 50%
Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid 20%

The second ingredient is a detergent that reacts with calcium or magnesium to form a cloudy precipitate. This is the ‘slime’ that sometimes forms when people soak stuff long term. It comes from hard water, the vinyl is not dissolving.

No worries about your cleaning products having bad reactions.

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Charlie Talley (I think) of Five Star explains about the slime due to the Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid (DBSA) at ~1:10:30 of this BN Session podcast. He says you should be able to break down the DBSA soap formed by soaking in PBW.

stonebrewer said:

Mine starts out "milky" because it interacts with something in my water. Never had a problem with it...

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Same here. Mine is always milky. I thought that was normal haha

m3n00b said:

This isn't the case. Mine turns cloudy immediately and has a PH of less than 3 for 1-2 months. No infections here.

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Same here

Not sure why this is resurrected, but the phrase "dont fear the foam" has now been uttered 4 times. Which is actually surprisingly less than I anticipated when I clicked on this

cbier60 said:

Charlie Talley (I think) of Five Star explains about the slime due to the Dodecylbenzenesulfonic acid (DBSA) at ~1:10:30 of this BN Session podcast. He says you should be able to break down the DBSA soap formed by soaking in PBW.

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Thanks for the 2+ year old thread necrobump.


Rev.

I make 5 gallons every 6 months or so with RO water. I store it in my SS kegs long term, no issues here at all.
It stays clear until it gets dirty due to repetitive use; I will push it through a filter every so often to keep it clean.
If you use hard water it will be cloudy, no getting around that.
It is an acid so don't mix it with an alkaline cleaner like bleach or ammonia.