Flavor/Aroma Hop additions: 30/15:5/flame

Hey all,

I was having a debate with some buddies. What do you all prefer for flavor and aroma hop additions.

I personally stick to 15 min additions for flavor and 5 min additions for my aroma when writing recipes.

Some of my buddies seems to prefer 30 min for flavor and 15 and 5 for aroma. Do you think this makes it more rounded?

I guess it can very with style and what you're going for. I find myself doing 60:15:5 more often then not though.

Any thoughts?

I'm with you on the times for the most part... but it does depend on what I'm brewing/the style.

I do a bittering addition at 60 and then other additions from 20 to flame out.

I think a 30 minute addition will not add much flavor but mostly bitterness.

You need to inside the 20 mark for flavor and aroma addition. There is a nice chart around here...hopefully some one will post it.

I do 5 additions of hops in all my beers, they are all within 20 minutes, its called hop bursting or late hopping...I highly recommend it if you want an aggressive beer in terms of hop flavor and aroma

Last 15 minutes for flavor, last 5 minutes for aroma....although adding with only 1 or 2 minutes left has great result for aroma. I would say that with 30 minutes left in the boil, adding would mostly be for bittering and not flavor.

I'm subscribing to this thread in hopes someone will post this magical chart!

I was just about to start this same thread. Great minds think alike huh? LOL I am not getting the hop flavor that I am looking for. The last 2 batches I made a irish red and a cream ale you cant hardly taste the hops at all. Both are extract kits from midwest supplies. I followed the recipe fairly close except for putting the second hop addition in at 5 minute rather than 2. Maybe just need more hops?

Bittering/flavoring/aroma are not discrete "events" on the boil timeline, as some graphics that float around these interwebs suggest. Each addition will give you some of each.
For instance, you can make an IPA without ever boiling the hops at all if you wanted to (I think Heretic does something like that). On the cold side, dry hops are often described as "aroma-only", but they produce a lot of flavor and sometimes even mouthfeel modification (tannins) as well. Dry hops can even increase perceived bitterness, even though they don't contribute any iso-alpha acids to the beer. First wort hops physically contribute more iso-alpha acids to a wort than a 60-minute addition, but to me the perception of that bitterness is so mellow that it feels substantially less bitter.

Generally, I bitter at 60' using Magnum or Horizon in most cases. In an IPA I'll add some Columbus to beef up the "agressiveness" of the bitterness. If I do a mid-boil addition, it's usually within the last 15 minutes. And for "aroma", I usually do it right at flameout.

For IPAs, I prefer small charges at 60 and 30 (or 90/45)... then large doses around 15-8 minutes left in the boil (you don't have to be picky), followed by a huge warm steep whirlpool addition and substantial dryhop (both with pellet hops). This method gives you smooth, yet high rounded bitterness and a ton of flavor/aroma.

Frige said:

I was just about to start this same thread. Great minds think alike huh? LOL I am not getting the hop flavor that I am looking for. The last 2 batches I made a irish red and a cream ale you cant hardly taste the hops at all. Both are extract kits from midwest supplies. I followed the recipe fairly close except for putting the second hop addition in at 5 minute rather than 2. Maybe just need more hops?

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You chose two of the least hoppy styles out there, so barely being able to taste the hops is a sign that you're brewing the kits correctly. If you want hoppy kits, try an APA, American IPA or DIPA.

another consideration is if you do a whirlpool rest before chilling or not. I've taken to doing one because that's what the pros do, so my recipes typically look like 60:15:0:dry hop. 15 is largely a flavor/bittering addition, with flameout and dry hop for aroma. without the whirlpool it would probably look more like 60:20:5:dry hop, but they're not exactly equivalent. during a whirlpool rest, the isomerization of alpha acids slows or stops completely, while the hot wort is still extracting and dissolving hop oils, meaning you get more flavor/aroma out of the hops than if you chilled right away without adding a lot of bitterness. that's my understanding, anyway.

also note that it varies from system to system because of things like chilling efficiency, how rapid the boil is, etc. the only way to really know what the differences are would be to split a mash into a bunch of smaller batches and doing different hop addition times for each boil. sounds like work to me, so I just sorta wing it based on what I've read here and elsewhere

Personally I see it as on a continuum with shorter times associated with aroma and longer times associated with bitterness (and flavour in the middle). Its not like if you boil them an extra minute longer than intended they are now bitter hops. Also, I think viewing it as a continuum allows you to more precisely identify when to add hops based on taste and experimentation.

I've been wondering a lot about flame out additions, and what they actually add to a beer. I've brewed quite a few IPAs, and plan to brew another in the morning. I was thinking about not doing the flame out addition I usually do (2 oz) and increasing my additions at 15 and 5. Heavy handed dry hop, 4 oz. And see what happens. I've seen the claim that if you dry hop during the primary, all that aroma will just fly away with the CO2 escaping. So, why wouldn't the aroma from flame out additions disappear as well? Maybe it's got something to do with steeping the hops when the wort is hot? Honestly, I feel like most of my aroma comes from dry hopping in the secondary anyway. When I sample my beer after fermentation has basically ended, I always am disappointed with the aroma. I know the beer isn't ready at this point, and perhaps the aroma would be better after conditioning, even if I didn't dry hop. But after a decent dry hop, the aroma is always pretty great. And I doubt I will ever brew something hoppy, without a dry hop.

I have been sticking to a 20 minutes and less hop schedule for my pales and ipa/iipas.I have found I can get the bitterness, flavor and aroma that matches the commercial brands best.The only draw back is the large amount of hops you need to use.
my last pale ale when it was fresh,could be smelled from 4 feet away when poured in a glass.

Calichusetts said:

You need to inside the 20 mark for flavor and aroma addition. There is a nice chart around here...hopefully some one will post it.

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You mean.... this chart?

Depends on the hop being used and what oil profile you are going for imo.

I seem to remember this coming up a few times and Yooper saying once something like this:
60 min bitter
5 min flavor
0 min aroma

I leave my hops in the wort until it's cooled and I use ice bath so that takes at least an hour.