Specialty grains, steeped in full boil?!

Well, I really f$!@ed up the other day, and just realized what I did...

I had a Brewer's Best Bold Series Nut Brown Ale kit sitting for a month, begging me to brew it. I got the itch, and broke out the supplies, cleaned up, and fired up the turkey fryer.

In my haste to set up, I made a stupid mistake: I steeped the grains at 154 in A FULL SIX GALLON BOIL in my 40qt kettle! ARGH!!!

So, how bad is it? I know I got color out of it, and I smelled it (4oz 60L, 4oz chocolate malt, and 2oz black patent malt). OG was a bit higher than the kit suggested (kit: 1.063, me: 1.070).

Did you take them out before the boil? If so, I think you should be OK. How did it taste?

-Steve

Yep, pulled them out before cranking the heat up. Tasted OK, forgot about that! 48 hours now with no increase in heat or bubbling, but I'm going to be patient. I did strain this batch completely, too.

OK, I don't get it.

You steeped the grains at 154, then pulled them out and then boiled?

Isn't that what you're SUPPOSED to do?

There can be problems with too much water for steeping if the pH of the water is high. You can get tannins. Most places, though, you don't have to worry. With that little amount of grain, not likely to be a problem, either. If you've got tannins, it would be obvious.

david_42 said:

There can be problems with too much water for steeping if the pH of the water is high. You can get tannins. Most places, though, you don't have to worry. With that little amount of grain, not likely to be a problem, either. If you've got tannins, it would be obvious.

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Shoot, really? I've always steeped in 6 gallons of water....what's the pH limit?

david_42 said:

There can be problems with too much water for steeping if the pH of the water is high. You can get tannins. Most places, though, you don't have to worry. With that little amount of grain, not likely to be a problem, either. If you've got tannins, it would be obvious.

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I have not taken the time to send in samples of my two types of water yet (hard from a well 140' down through granite, clay and sand near a river, and the same water softened with pellets). I did, however, use my aquarium testing kit to approximate the pH at about 7.2... Should I be correcting for that level?

EDIT: Forgot to mention, my batches have only been using straight well water (hard).

Can you use the aquarium pH testing kit to test the pH of your mash? That's the important thing. I have very high pH here- 8.2! But my mash pH is usually only a little high and comes down with darker grains very easily.

If your water is already neutral, it's probably fine during the mash.

Ideally, the mash should be in the 5.2-5.6 pH area. There are ways to calculate it, if you can't check the pH, like with Palmer's nomograph. How to Brew - By John Palmer - Residual Alkalinity and Mash pH

Using a smaller amount of water is really only important for partial mashing, not steeping, but as David_42 said, you could get some tannins in some cases but probably not. If you're using 6 gallons for your steep with good results, then no need to change it.

In my case, with my alkaline water, I'd start with 1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain, and use that for my mash/steep water. Then, I'd add water after I removed the grains to get me to my boil voilume.

YooperBrew said:

In my case, with my alkaline water, I'd start with 1.5 quarts of water per pound of grain, and use that for my mash/steep water. Then, I'd add water after I removed the grains to get me to my boil voilume.

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Yep, that's about what I'd normally do, but I just completely flaked on this batch.

I'm going to do a pre-boil-to-pitching checklist on a whiteboard so I can just check stuff off. I think I've got a good list so far: cleaning, sanitizing, drinking, setting up, measuring initial water, heating, steeping, drinking, measuring water addition, boiling, drinking, adding ingredients, immersion cooler in boil, nutrient addition, drinking, cooling, straining, aerating, sampling, OG measuring, pitching, capping, venting, drinking. Did I forget anything?

I'm thinking that as mistakes go, this one is pretty trivial. Maybe brewers with more experience have a different take. But I wouldn't be too worried.

Mashing and steeping are two different critters, right?

I'm sure you're correct, and as I didn't notice any abnormal taste, it's probably fine on the steeping side. The fermentation side, though, is another story altogether. I still have no movement in the airlock, so that's, what, 90 hours or so? I'm going to have to re-read the entire sticky on fermentation time and lag... Ah, research. Where would I be without the interwebs?!

torque2k said:

Ah, research. Where would I be without the interwebs?!

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Tell me about it! Without the internet, I wouldn't be brewing, growing hops, making cheese, researching how to make soap, planning on building a brewstand, making wine, etc.

Wait. Without the internet, I'd have way more money and have more productive days. Hmmmmm.

As far as no signs of fermentation yet, are you certain? Sometimes you don't see any airlock bubbling or anything but when you check the SG, it's fermented out. It's happened to me, especially in warm weather when the beer fermented out overnight. Check the SG, and see if you're still at the same OG. If you are, pitch some fresh yeast. If not, then you're fine.

YooperBrew said:

Wait. Without the internet, I'd have way more money and have more productive days. Hmmmmm.

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+1

As far as no signs of fermentation yet, are you certain? Sometimes you don't see any airlock bubbling or anything but when you check the SG, it's fermented out. It's happened to me, especially in warm weather when the beer fermented out overnight. Check the SG, and see if you're still at the same OG. If you are, pitch some fresh yeast. If not, then you're fine.

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I was trying to be patient, but four full days with no bubbles has me wondering. I'll take a reading tonight (when I have a two brews, one in my hand and one in my belly), see what I can see. This is the first time I've used Nottingham dry yeast (but I did rehydrate it), I'm used to using Safale 04 and 05, which fire up so quickly...

Thanks again, all!

I was steeping in my full 6 gallon boil for a while then I figured out I could shorten my brew day by bringing my full turkey fryer up to 160ish, then scoop roughly 2 quarts of water for the steeping into a smaller pot. I steep in this while continue heating the majority of the water in the turkey fryer pot. By the time my 30 min steep is over the turkey fryer is boiling or close to it and it comes back up to a boil quickly after pouring in my steeping water. As a side effect steeping in less water is supposed to be better anyway so...

YooperBrew said:

Without the internet, I'd have way more money and have more productive days.

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Well, it depends on your definition of productive. Sounds to me like you're VERY productive!

I have never had any issues doing exactly what you said you have done. I steep mine in my 6 gallons, as I am raising my water temperature to 160F. I just make sure it takes 30 minutes to do this. Everyone I have ever done like this has been fine, but I also don't have any water issues that I know of.

torque2k said:

I was trying to be patient, but four full days with no bubbles has me wondering. I'll take a reading tonight (when I have a two brews, one in my hand and one in my belly), see what I can see...

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And, as if by magic, I walk into the room tonight and what do I smell? Yumminess (TM). Airlock was hitting once every two seconds. This morning, it was not bubbling after I stared it down for a full five minutes. I sniffed around the lid on the bucket, but didn't smell anything coming from the seal, so I don't think it was pushing out that way the whole time, but like I said, buckets go bye-bye for the next brew session.

Actually, what someone needs to invent is a bucket lid made of the same plastic that Better Bottles are made of (PET?). That way, you could see what's going on. Couple that with rim adapters like I've read about in BYO, and you've got a halfway decent setup that you can easily strain into (unlike carboys with their small openings) with a good reusable seal. :rockin:

torque2k said:

+1


I was trying to be patient, but four full days with no bubbles has me wondering. I'll take a reading tonight (when I have a two brews, one in my hand and one in my belly), see what I can see. This is the first time I've used Nottingham dry yeast (but I did rehydrate it), I'm used to using Safale 04 and 05, which fire up so quickly...

Thanks again, all!

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Don't slam Notty, maybe you got one of their "Slower" batches that people are talking about on here. It is slammin' and jammin' every time I pitch it within 18 hrs....I love it. But 04 and 05 isn't too shabby either I also use them a good bit so far.

torque2k said:

Actually, what someone needs to invent is a bucket lid made of the same plastic that Better Bottles are made of (PET?). That way, you could see what's going on. Couple that with rim adapters like I've read about in BYO, and you've got a halfway decent setup that you can easily strain into (unlike carboys with their small openings) with a good reusable seal. :rockin:

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+1 on a great product idea