Why Not Start Home Brewing w/ All Grain Method?

That's what I'm doing. At first I was a little intimidated by all the lingo, but I read Palmer, Papazian, and many, many of the threads on this amazing website and I plan on doing my first home brew batch ever and I'm going all grain right off the bat. My cousin, who has participated in a couple malt extract batches is also going to be in attendance, so it will be good to have his experience.

I'm planning on this clone recipe:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/dogfish-head-60-minute-clone-ag-extract-25709/

I know its high gravity so I'm going to double up on Wyest Activators.

With a mash tun method and equipment similar to this guy:


I just have to make sure my stove top can boil 6.5 gallons before I get going.

Did anyone else out there go straight to all mash? Anyone want to talk me out of it?

Thanks for all the great information. This is the best and most searchable online community I have ever scene.

Go for the gusto I say! Most people do recommend starting at extract level because you get an idea for the basics...sanitation, fermentation and so on and a brew day is only an hour or two. You are less invested at that level and if you make rookie mistakes and waste a batch, not as big of a deal. All grain's only difference though is the mashing process. If you get that down pat, then everything is the same, just longer. You are not boiling 3 gallons and adding water, you are doing full boils which take longer. But if you have the time why not give it a try!

As for your yeast, check out Jamil's Z's site Mr. Malty for the yeast pitching calculator, everything you need to know about yeast...just because you actually may need more than 2 smack packs. At a 1.070 OG, even if the smack packs are fresh (as of dated today), it calls for 2.5 smack packs if you don't use a starter. So if the packs are a month old, could need more (tells me 3.1 needed if dated 6/1/12).

Good luck and welcome to brewing!

It's like learning to drive a car with a stickshift rather than an automatic. A little more to coordinate but no reason the two can't be accomplished together.

It's up to you, dude. I did my first 10 batches extract and steeping, then switched to AG biab. No reason you have to follow trhe crtowd,though. I find AG very reqarding and am glad I made the switch.

I kind of wish I went this route, but I've made some really good extract beer so I can't complain. For me it was a cost thing - equipment for extract was cheaper to get started with. I'm slowly buying the pieces needed for AG, and I can still brew while I accumulate it.

I'm glad I started the way I did, got me started sooner. Can't really go wrong either way in my opinion. If you have the spare cash to go straight to AG, go for it.

I say go for it. I read everything I could about home brewing before I even began and knew I wanted to do AG, but I did two extract batches first. I probably should've just skipped those and went for AG right away. You'll see people say you need to get a bunch of extract batches under your belt first blah blah blah..... I don't believe that's absolutely necessary. You're going to make rookie mistakes whether it's extract or AG.

Dan said:

It's like learning to drive a car with a stickshift rather than an automatic. A little more to coordinate but no reason the two can't be accomplished together.

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Of course maybe I think that way because I actually did learn to drive on a stick shift not an automatic.

Plenty people start with AG. My brother in CA started with AG and he's a brewing maniac now. I don't think he's ever even seen extract.

Edit. Duplicate post. Sorry

I only did two batches before I switched over. It makes the brew day a little longer but it's worth it. Do it!

RGillette10 said:

I just have to make sure my stove top can boil 6.5 gallons before I get going.

Did anyone else out there go straight to all mash?

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Do it. You could always just make a 2.5-3 gallon batch to start, so you're only boiling 3.5-4 gallons. Making wort is easy, all you need is a big pot, a bag, and a decent thermometer. Controlling your fermentations accurately is much harder, and that's what takes your beer from good to great. From great to excellent? well that's a whole nother story. Do it!

Water quality also becomes an issue when going AG, and that may require a goodly amount of research, if your water supply is iffy.

So if you go AG for the first time, consider using spring water until you find out if your local water supply uses chloramines and you send the water out for a water test to Ward Labs.

Actually, even if you're going to do extract batches you should find out if your water is treated with chloramines. 1/4 of a campden tablet per 5 gallons fixes the chloramine problem. Chloramine makes beer taste pretty nasty.

Some people never go this far with their water, I suppose, but in my opinion if you want to make truly excellent beers you're going to need to know what's in your water eventually.

I have never brewed with extract. Started with a brooklyn brew shop all-grain kit.

I also learned to drive in a car with a stick shift, passed my driving test in a car with a stick shift, and my first 3 cars were all manuals.

Just the way i roll.

TimpanogosSlim said:

I also learned to drive in a car with a stick shift, passed my driving test in a car with a stick shift, and my first 3 cars were all manuals.

Just the way i roll.

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When and where I was getting my license - EVERYBODY (like the whole (huge) country) took tests on manual and drove stick shift cars... Not a big deal if you don't have much options

Forum may make AG sound more complicated than it really is.
I fermented some "wort in the bag" kits and went AG. Extracts are expensive here and AG is not that complicated and much more fun.
I like my AG batches better than pe-made kits - I can make them the way I like

No reason not to. I did two extract batches and then went right to BIAB nad haven't looked back. I definitely could have started on AG, and would recommend it to anyone.

Dan said:

It's like learning to drive a car with a stickshift rather than an automatic. A little more to coordinate but no reason the two can't be accomplished together.

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This is a great analogy, and I am definitely going to start using it. Cheers!

daksin said:

This is a great analogy, and I am definitely going to start using it. Cheers!

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I had the exact same thought.

I started with a Mr Beer kit as a gift from my wife for Christmas. I made 4 of their "kits" which I do not consider to be brewing. You mix the pre-hopped extract with some boiling water, cool, and pitch yeast. After that, I jumped headfirst into AG and have never looked back. It takes a lot of time and I like that, it is the only "me" time that I get and it's like meditation for me.

I'm always asked if one should go straight to all grain (or if it's practical). I know you can but I always suggest a different approach. Start with a large boil kettle, like a 10 gallon that is ready to go for all grain. Get an immersion chiller. Figure out how you're going to pitch enough yeast and how you're going to keep the fermenter cool. Now... brew a batch of extract beer and prove to yourself that you can handle 6 gallons of wort from boil to ferment. If you can't master that portion of it, there's no reason to spend 4 extra hours manufacturing wort from grain. Spend a few batches getting used to full volume wort and clean ferments and THEN make wort from grain. It's a very logical progression.

Sorry, I really do think that there are just too many ways to fail starting fresh with all grain.

When I was a teenager I took guitar lessons because I thought that I needed to do that if I wanted to learn to play banjo. I was quickly told to go take banjo lessons. If you want to brew grain, brew grain.

My first batch was all grain, and that was the only 5 gallon batch I ever made.

Not everybody has the time for a 4+ hour brewday. Also not everybody has space and money for extra equipment. So, extract can be a better option for some.

The only substantial argument against it I can think of is attrition.

Lots of people brew one or two batches then never brew again. Much better for them to have spent tens of dollars on extract equipment than hundreds on all-grain equipment.

On the flip side of that, all-grain is a lot more engaging, and may have a lower attrition rate as a result.

I am also switching to AG after my first batch. While I like the process of an extract brew, I didn't care for the lack of control over the final product. And all the extra stuff I bought I can re-utilize should I for some strange reason not want to brew anymore.

I started with all grain brewing. I am an avid home cook and baker. I did all the reading I could here, read Palmer's book, and decided that it's really just a process and a recipe. I can follow a recipe and the techniques don't have to be so advanced that they're difficult to perform. I actually started with a clone of jkarp's Countertop Brutus and I've not looked back (I really did dive right into it). I've never had to dump a batch (not even close) and I've only had one major "uh oh" moment (I blew an element by dry firing it).

I've started formulating my own recipes after 2 years of using other people's (with slight modifications for purposes of experimentation) and it's opened up a whole new avenue for my brewing.

All of the information you need is out there. You just have to find it (hint: a lot of great info is right here at HBT) and follow in the path blazed by previous brewers until you are confident with your process and abilities.

Dan said:

It's like learning to drive a car with a stickshift rather than an automatic. A little more to coordinate but no reason the two can't be accomplished together.

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My dad always used to say "If you can learn to drive on a stick shift you'll be able to drive ANYTHING after that!"

Looking back, I wish I would have jumped right in to AG. No reason not to in my opinion!

Stauffbier said:

My dad always used to say "If you can learn to drive on a stick shift you'll be able to drive ANYTHING after that!"

Looking back, I wish I would have jumped right in to AG. No reason not to in my opinion!

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If you can dodge wrenches, you can dodge balls!

TheOneBuz said:

If you can dodge wrenches, you can dodge balls!

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HA! Funny, cuz my dad had a Lil' Red Express truck back then. I loved that truck. He taught me how to drive on that and a dune buggy we built from an old VW Bug...

EDIT: Sorry for being off topic OP!

By all means go for the AG gusto...be careful and DO NOT BOILOVER! Approach carefully and reduce heat at say 200-205 degrees...one never forgets their first ________. you fill in the blank.

I don't think you can boil 6+ gallons on your stove, my friend did a batch last week on his electric stove and it took 6 hours and it was not a vigorous boil at all. He ordered a burner on Monday.

I'm not saying it can't be done but there is absolutely no downside to practicing wort handling and fermentation with malt extract. If those beers come out terrible, you know that the biggest hurdle is not holding grain at 150F. If you go right to all grain and the beer is terrible, well, you have a long troubleshooting road ahead.

I think most people don't go this route right off the bat due to accessibility and space. Like you said, you need to check if your stove can boil that much water....this is a set back for many people that are stuck brewing indoors.

Look at it this way, hundeds of years ago no one used extract!!! I say go for it!!

Go for it. I did with no problem.

What I don't get is how people say it is more expensive to brew all grain.

As an example the first "beer kit" I saw that had extract without specialty grains and an all grain counter part from Northern Brewer was "Surly Furious Pro Series". Looking at that example, the extract kit is $56.xx and the AG is $42.xx. I don't know how much extract malt you need to brew a typical APA, but I bought a 50# bag of Rahr Pale ale for $50. That's $1 per pound. Can you buy extract at that price? The only other thing you need is a mash tun. Building your own is not very expensive. I heat my strike/sparge water in the same kettle I boil my wort in. I also bought a 5 gallon cooler to hold my sparge water.

Yes, there is more time invested to mash your grain for your wort but it's not more than 60-90 min. To me, the extra time is worth have fresh wort not some syrup I poured out of a can.

do it. you'll likely never go back (unless you're short on time, etc). I made a single extract recipe on my first batch. Read up on deathbrewer's BIAB method and thought "hey, i can do that" and did one of those. Now I brew 2-3 all-grain batches a week. I love the flexibility you get in all-grain brewing. There are so many ways to tweak and play. Feels much more my own. Your first batch will be intimidating, but you'll look back at it and go "oh, is that it???"

I am sure more experienced brewers make less mistakes and can trouble shoot better. But that's why we have this forum I think. In the end it's "just" brewing beer. And like so many things it appears to me its easy to learn and hard to master. After all if those uneducated folks in the middle ages without internet, youtube, forums somehow figured it out, I am sure we can too especially with the support around here.
I am also using this https://s3.amazonaws.com/com.brewersfriend.images/brewersfriend_checklist_allgrain.pdf as a checklist for the AG brew day.

Just make a written plan for each step, document the whole process, think it out step by step, then do it.... most importantly have a way to control your fermentation temp, and you'll make great beer!

Bobby_M said:

I'm always asked if one should go straight to all grain (or if it's practical). I know you can but I always suggest a different approach. Start with a large boil kettle, like a 10 gallon that is ready to go for all grain. Get an immersion chiller. Figure out how you're going to pitch enough yeast and how you're going to keep the fermenter cool. Now... brew a batch of extract beer and prove to yourself that you can handle 6 gallons of wort from boil to ferment. If you can't master that portion of it, there's no reason to spend 4 extra hours manufacturing wort from grain. Spend a few batches getting used to full volume wort and clean ferments and THEN make wort from grain. It's a very logical progression.

Sorry, I really do think that there are just too many ways to fail starting fresh with all grain.

Click to expand...

I've only read a few postings by now,

So I might as well be speaking words from a cow.

'I want to reply to Bobby M who I respect very much

For is wisdom, and brewiiing expertise, he's a man I do trust.

Yes, I agree with you on your points;

They are valid, no doubt

and why should concerns be left completely out?

But why can't a person take a big leap

go all-grain from the start? While we presently speak?

If they were a fool, and there are very few here..

Your direction is perfectly clear.

But if a guy wants to go AG right away..
It may be up to advise
We learned the hard way.

But also to this I need to say
Brew beer, brew beer do your own way.

Go for it man
You better have a plan
And done a lot of reading
And a head that understands

As usual Bobby us quite right
You probably sholdn't brew this night...

Educate youself before your first brew
If fofr nothing else
It's good for your brew

ou can go straght to all grain no doubt
Just dont start with a stout.

The only reason I said that last sentence
Iss because it rhyemed and Im out of time.

Goi OP go
If you don't you will not know

..I'm done

Good luck boiling on your stovetop. Didn't work out for me on my electric one. Buying a propane burner (Turkey Fryer) is a good investment!

I'm still doing extract and steeping specialty grains, working my way up to AG. It is a space and money thing for me. But more power to you! Just don't give up if things aren't as expected right off the bat. I have learned a lot on my path...

Bobby_M said:

I'm always asked if one should go straight to all grain (or if it's practical). I know you can but I always suggest a different approach. Start with a large boil kettle, like a 10 gallon that is ready to go for all grain. Get an immersion chiller. Figure out how you're going to pitch enough yeast and how you're going to keep the fermenter cool. Now... brew a batch of extract beer and prove to yourself that you can handle 6 gallons of wort from boil to ferment. If you can't master that portion of it, there's no reason to spend 4 extra hours manufacturing wort from grain. Spend a few batches getting used to full volume wort and clean ferments and THEN make wort from grain. It's a very logical progression.

Sorry, I really do think that there are just too many ways to fail starting fresh with all grain.

Click to expand...

I've only read a few postings by now,

So I might as well be speaking words from a cow.

'I want to reply to Bobby M who I respect very much

For is wisdom, and brewiiing expertise; he's a man I do trust.

Yes, I agree with you on your points;

They are valid, no doubt and why should concerns be left out?

But why can't a person take a big leap and go all-grain from the start?

If they were all fools,

and there are very few here..

Your direction would be perfectly clear.

But if a guy wants to go AG right away..

It may be up to advise

We learned the hard way.

But also to this I need to say,

Brew beer, brew beer do your own way.

Go for it man

You better have a plan

And done a lot of reading

And a head that understands

As usual Bobby us quite right

You probably sholdn't brew anything but extract tonight...

Believeme, it wil be out of sight!

Sp Educate youself before your first brew

If for nothing else

It's good for your brew

ou can go straght to all grain no doubt

Just dont start with a stout.

The only reason I said that last sentence

It's because it rhyimed and Im out of time.

Go OP go

If you don't you will not know

..I'm done

Wow, thanks for all the tips and support. I've spent a lot of time today getting my kit together. I built my mash tun. Seems to be properly assembled. I have all my grains and everything. Still need a few more small items, like tubing, etc. My Williams Brewing kit came with an American IPA kit, so I have two activator packs, one NW Ale and one American Ale II. I've heard mixed opinions on 1 v. additional packs. Some people say 1 is all you need. But i've heard a lot of people had more. Some say multiple packs creates lazy yeast which can yield undesirable flavors.

Anyway. I'm pretty sure my stove top is not going to be able to handle 6-6.5 gallons of wort. I did a test run and it was taking forever. So I'm going to snag a $60 turkey burner at Home Depot. I'm guessing the Brinkmann or maybe a Bayou Classic of Amazon.

Fermentation: I live in Seattle. Right now, the temp range in my basement is 65-70. That should be ok, right?

Thanks again for all your help.

Also, the handles on my SS 40 Qt pot from the Williams kit feels like they could break off when the pot is full. Is this fear irrational?