The Most Frustrating Problem Ever...I want to shoot myself.

Carbonation.

This is third batch in and I am getting NO carbonation.

Yep, I know, pretty stupid. You'd think I'd learn after the first time, but let me explain.

Full grain brewing with a Gatorade cooler mash-tun, 23 L batches with a plastic carboy and glass secondary. I do all the standard procedures, mash-in, lauter, mash-out, boil wort etc...and at the end of it all I have a nice sweet product and add my pitched wyeast at room temperature. Wait for a full two weeks after bottling annnnnnddd ....No carbonation.

Round 2
So I thought, perhaps a sanitation issue ( I had reasons to suspect)...so I diversol'd the **** out of my equipment for 24 hours. Tried again, annoyingly, no success.

Round 3
I thought, perhaps a bottling issue. I use glass bottles with press on caps. I put some baking soda and vinegar into a bottle and put it under water for a minute or two to test the seal. No leak. I tried different bottles, swing tops. Also flat.

Here's the kicker though, the beer was quite alcoholic. Yet no carbonation.
I primary fermented in a plastic bucket for about 6 days, secondary for about a week or two...Also during bottling used more than an adequate amount of dextrose dissolved in boiled water.

Maybe all the fermentation somehow went though during the primary? A stubborn infection maybe? Autolysis? I don't know...but if this next batch doesn't come through I might quit my hobby of many years....I've done tons of batches and never have had a problem before with carbonation. My beer has all of a sudden just been failing hard and I don't know what to do!

Help! Please!

You need to make sure you are getting yeast into the bottling bucket as well as stirring the sugar solution into the beer before you bottle it. Depending on your secondary methods you have the potential to be making really bright beer. Really bright beer has very little to no yeast in suspension, which will not lead to a carbonated product. To produce CO2 in the bottle you need yeast and either residual sugar left over, or additional sugar added for them to convert to CO2. If you are making an insanely high alcohol beer and trying to have a very low concentration of yeast re-start fermentation in such a hostile environment you are asking for a lot!

There is no need for a secondary (i know, I know hold your opinions ), not on a homebrew level, especially if you are going to bottle condition without adding fresh yeast (top cropping time ) from a high krausen.

IMO, don't give up... if all else fails... buy a kegerator and force carb the **** out of it!

Maybe add an appropriate quantity of champagne yeast at bottling if the beer is high ABV as you say. Or by a kegging system.

+1 on champagne.

I've used distillers yeast too

How long since you bottled? What temperature are you keeping the bottles at?

I had the same problem - none of my bulk-primed & bottled beers carbonated hardly at all. I gave up and just bought a kegging system. Now my beers are turning out fantastic.

For really bright beers after cold crashing I rehydrate one teaspoon of Muntons Gold yeast and add to my bottling bucket with my corn sugar. Carbs up fast and flocculates to a jelly like crust that stays put when you pour.

I'm going to guess that since we're almost to November your conditioning temps have dropped quite a bit. I find that my beers in usually carb in a week or two in July but now that my basement is in the low 60's it takes more like two or three weeks. Also if you've been cold crashing your beers lately that can cause a slower carbonation.

What is the ABV of the bottled beer?

So you successfully carbonated in the past, but now you can't. What has changed? Are you sure you are using dextrose and not another white powder to carbonate? Try using table sugar instead, at least you know that is the right stuff and you aren't dealing with someone at the HBS putting the wrong label on what you think is dextrose.

Frankly, I don't buy any of the previous suggestions that there isn't enough yeast in suspension because of secondary, that you need to add extra yeast, etc. etc. However, I do find it takes longer to bottle condition; in fact, I've never had a batch carbonated any sooner than 4 weeks in the bottle. Just FYI.

broadbill said:

Frankly, I don't buy any of the previous suggestions that there isn't enough yeast in suspension because of secondary, that you need to add extra yeast, etc. etc. However, I do find it takes longer to bottle condition; in fact, I've never had a batch carbonated any sooner than 4 weeks in the bottle. Just FYI.

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The issue may not be that there is no yeast in the beer, but that the ABV of the beer has possibly shut down the ale yeast, necessitating champagne yeast to ferment the priming sugar.

There is plenty of yeast still there. Like broadbill said, at least 4 weeks. Stronger beers can take much longer.

A healthy fermentation should only take up to 7 days max even for a high gravity beer. Anything longer than that and you are either under pitching, under oxygenating, produced nonfermentable wort, at too low of a temperature or a myriad of other problems. A nice clean, healthy fermentation will be complete in 3 days provided you give you yeast the optimum conditions.

For the record, all I was referring to was fermentation time. Maturation may/will take much longer.

If it's not a temperature issue I will drink all your flat beer, and eat a bug.

Can it be a madagascar hissing cockroach?

Thanks for all the responses!

I left out some details for brevity's sake but I've thought of a few of the solutions put forth and I don't think my case fits.

Primary-Secondary and Bottling temperature has been kept at a solid 20C or 68F. Out of direct sunlight. No fluctuation in temperature. So unlikely due to temperature.

The first batch was way back in April, and I still have bottles from each batch and I assure they are still quite flat...so not due to insufficient conditioning time.

I do cold crashing but only after about a week of bottle conditioning.

I mix in the dextrose solution into my bottling bucket before bottling, I use regular yeast and not aiming a high ABV beer. I am also positive that it's dextrose. I've heard regular sugar is a no no.

I want to buy a kegging system but my brewing partner insists on the bottle conditioning *siighh* ...that day will come eventually haha.

I've also left out some key info here: I'm more a 'art' than a 'science' sort of type so I pretty fluid with my brewing...I don't take gravity readings (so I don't know ABV) but I can sure as hell taste liquor and I know fermentation when I see it. Some of the batches had some minor variation/mistakes to it involving too much water or accidentally losing some wort...but nothing that should have affected the end product.

Thanks for the help and suggestions though! I think I'm going to go the 'adding some pitched yeast at bottling' route...I still have my suspicion of autolysis or infection so I'm gonna ditch the plastic bucket and go with a super clean glass carboy with no secondary racking. I'm travelling at the moment but when I get back in a couple of weeks, I'll brew a batch and we'll she how she goes!

Thanks for the help! and I'm still open to more suggestions!

yooji said:

Thanks for all the responses!

I left out some details for brevity's sake but I've thought of a few of the solutions put forth and I don't think my case fits.

Primary-Secondary and Bottling temperature has been kept at a solid 20C or 68F. Out of direct sunlight. No fluctuation in temperature. So unlikely due to temperature.

The first batch was way back in April, and I still have bottles from each batch and I assure they are still quite flat...so not due to insufficient conditioning time.

I do cold crashing but only after about a week of bottle conditioning.

I mix in the dextrose solution into my bottling bucket before bottling, I use regular yeast and not aiming a high ABV beer. I am also positive that it's dextrose. I've heard regular sugar is a no no.

I want to buy a kegging system but my brewing partner insists on the bottle conditioning *siighh* ...that day will come eventually haha.

I've also left out some key info here: I'm more a 'art' than a 'science' sort of type so I pretty fluid with my brewing...I don't take gravity readings (so I don't know ABV) but I can sure as hell taste liquor and I know fermentation when I see it. Some of the batches had some minor variation/mistakes to it involving too much water or accidentally losing some wort...but nothing that should have affected the end product.

Thanks for the help and suggestions though! I think I'm going to go the 'adding some pitched yeast at bottling' route...I still have my suspicion of autolysis or infection so I'm gonna ditch the plastic bucket and go with a super clean glass carboy with no secondary racking. I'm travelling at the moment but when I get back in a couple of weeks, I'll brew a batch and we'll she how she goes!

Thanks for the help! and I'm still open to more suggestions!

Click to expand...

Do you cold crash your entire batch after only 1 week in the bottle?

If so try letting them sit for 3-4 weeks at room temp to carbonate.

You have no idea what a cold crash is for do you?!?!?!? Just a hint, its not done after bottling

but beer is beer. Keep it up

yooji said:

Thanks for all the responses!

I left out some details for brevity's sake but I've thought of a few of the solutions put forth and I don't think my case fits.

Primary-Secondary and Bottling temperature has been kept at a solid 20C or 68F. Out of direct sunlight. No fluctuation in temperature. So unlikely due to temperature.

The first batch was way back in April, and I still have bottles from each batch and I assure they are still quite flat...so not due to insufficient conditioning time.

I do cold crashing but only after about a week of bottle conditioning.

I mix in the dextrose solution into my bottling bucket before bottling, I use regular yeast and not aiming a high ABV beer. I am also positive that it's dextrose. I've heard regular sugar is a no no.

I want to buy a kegging system but my brewing partner insists on the bottle conditioning *siighh* ...that day will come eventually haha.

I've also left out some key info here: I'm more a 'art' than a 'science' sort of type so I pretty fluid with my brewing...I don't take gravity readings (so I don't know ABV) but I can sure as hell taste liquor and I know fermentation when I see it. Some of the batches had some minor variation/mistakes to it involving too much water or accidentally losing some wort...but nothing that should have affected the end product.

Thanks for the help and suggestions though! I think I'm going to go the 'adding some pitched yeast at bottling' route...I still have my suspicion of autolysis or infection so I'm gonna ditch the plastic bucket and go with a super clean glass carboy with no secondary racking. I'm travelling at the moment but when I get back in a couple of weeks, I'll brew a batch and we'll she how she goes!

Thanks for the help! and I'm still open to more suggestions!

Click to expand...

Boy, I agree, I HOPE you are not cold crashing your bottles after a week!!!!

If that was a typo, I'm not convinced in any way this is an infection. Are the bottles from April at room temperature or have they been kept at refrigerator temperatures this whole time?

yooji said:

Thanks for all the responses!

I left out some details for brevity's sake but I've thought of a few of the solutions put forth and I don't think my case fits.

Primary-Secondary and Bottling temperature has been kept at a solid 20C or 68F. Out of direct sunlight. No fluctuation in temperature. So unlikely due to temperature.

The first batch was way back in April, and I still have bottles from each batch and I assure they are still quite flat...so not due to insufficient conditioning time.

I do cold crashing but only after about a week of bottle conditioning.

I mix in the dextrose solution into my bottling bucket before bottling, I use regular yeast and not aiming a high ABV beer. I am also positive that it's dextrose. I've heard regular sugar is a no no.

I want to buy a kegging system but my brewing partner insists on the bottle conditioning *siighh* ...that day will come eventually haha.

I've also left out some key info here: I'm more a 'art' than a 'science' sort of type so I pretty fluid with my brewing...I don't take gravity readings (so I don't know ABV) but I can sure as hell taste liquor and I know fermentation when I see it. Some of the batches had some minor variation/mistakes to it involving too much water or accidentally losing some wort...but nothing that should have affected the end product.

Thanks for the help and suggestions though! I think I'm going to go the 'adding some pitched yeast at bottling' route...I still have my suspicion of autolysis or infection so I'm gonna ditch the plastic bucket and go with a super clean glass carboy with no secondary racking. I'm travelling at the moment but when I get back in a couple of weeks, I'll brew a batch and we'll she how she goes!

Thanks for the help! and I'm still open to more suggestions!

Click to expand...

If the beer tastes okay I don't think its autolysis or infection, also if it were infection the wild yeast or bacteria would still digest added sugar and produce a carbonated final product.

You mentioned adding baking soda and vinegar to a bottle and checking for leaks, did it hiss with a release of pressure when you opened it? Have you changed bottle cappers?

How are you "positive that it is dextrose"? I'd like to know what led to that conclusion.

"I do cold crashing but only after about a week of bottle conditioning. "

This is the final thing that is a little disconcerting, yeast are more stressed during bottle conditioning and therefore need longer to work. You might be shutting them down by cold crashing after only one week. Personally I let my bottles sit 3 weeks minimum for an ale, then put one in the fridge for 48 hours to ensure the CO2 fully dissolves and test it. If you crash the whole batch before testing you risk shutting down yeast activity too early.

Taking gravity readings would help give more insight to the problem. Since its not carbonated you might as well take a reading and see where it is.

Keep us posted, and never give up.

Also, there's no reason you can't use table sugar to carbonate.

What the ABV of the beers?

What kind of yeast are you using? If you are using an extremely high flocculation type of yeast, then you could be moving to secondary, and in turn, not getting any yeast from suspension. Are you cold crashing these before you rack as well?

Try the next batch and add like half a sachet of dry yeast to the bottling bucket with the priming sugar. Ensure you are using enough of the sugar too for the right volumes.

Let them stay warm, for 3 weeks and check on them then, after chilling them for 3 days, open.

I find it hard to believe you can't carb a bottle unless you aren't sealing the caps properly, are keeping them cold and the yeast is falling out, and/or not adding enough sugar.

EDIT:

Reading the rest here now, it appears you are cold crashing them at 1 week. DO NOT DO THAT. They need to be warm for atleast 3 weeks or more. Don't chill them what so ever, until you are ready to drink them. You are causing the yeast to go to sleep, flocculate out, and stop working. They WILL be flat if you do that.

If the added yeast doesn't carb them, something else is wrong, because introducing new yeast, and new sugars to your fermented wort, will make CO2.

yooji said:

I do cold crashing but only after about a week of bottle conditioning.


I've also left out some key info here: I'm more a 'art' than a 'science' sort of type so I pretty fluid with my brewing...I don't take gravity readings (so I don't know ABV)

Thanks for the help! and I'm still open to more suggestions!

Click to expand...

Cold crashing is done well before the bottling stage..Not after

No known gravity means its very hard to help with a useful solution....

Cheers
Jay

Isn't autolysis pretty much a non-issue in the homebrew world under normal conditions? Also, what type of infection would inhibit fermentation? I can't think of one. If there was an infection those things would become WAY overcarb'd

TrojanAnteater said:

Isn't autolysis pretty much a non-issue in the homebrew world under normal conditions? Also, what type of infection would inhibit fermentation? I can't think of one. If there was an infection those things would become WAY overcarb'd

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from what I've heard, autalysis in homebrew only occurs if you leave the beer in primary for over 6 months. Maybe a little less if it is very high alcohol, but most beers, it takes quite a while for that to happen.

infections usually add to the fermentation, eating some of the sugars brewing yeast can't handle, and most often will cause gushers, bottle bombs, or just plain high levels of carbonation.

For the OP's problem, I am guessing the cold crash after one week in the bottle is the problem. Have you always done this? or is this something new you've tried just with the batches that haven't carbed? It's possible that some batches carbed in a week, and you didn't notice a problem with doing that, but a week isn't enough time for every batch to carb. some beers take longer. High gravity beers can take a month, and sometimes even a low alcohol beer can take over 2 weeks, depending on temp and yeast health.

Are you making starters to ensure your yeast isn't stressed out right from the get go? Stressed out yeast poops out easy and won't carb well.

TrojanAnteater said:

Isn't autolysis pretty much a non-issue in the homebrew world under normal conditions? Also, what type of infection would inhibit fermentation? I can't think of one. If there was an infection those things would become WAY overcarb'd

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The creation of off flavors due to autolysis has been disputed. There is no doubt autolysis occurs, it's part of the yeast life cycle. It's actually the reason some wines are aged "on the lees", particularly whites that benefit from the body and mouthfeel contributed by the yeasts "innards".

yooji said:

diversol
baking soda
vinegar

Click to expand...

Take all this crap out off your bottle cleaning procedure.

amandabab said:

Originally Posted by yooji
diversol
baking soda
vinegar

Click to expand...

Take all this crap out off your bottle cleaning procedure.

Click to expand...

+1

I use a light bleach-water bath to clean my bottles, then rinse, then run in the dishwasher for another rinse and heat cycle. Nothing else.

I like B-brite to clean, then rinse then star San for sanitizing.

Thanks again for all the responses!

I won't have a chance to put all of your recommendations in to place for a number of weeks until I get back home to my brew kit, but will post up when I get the next batch finalized.

To address some of the suggestions from the other posters.

1. Probably a poor choice of words for 'cold crashing' my beer once it's bottled. I've been doing the chilling my beer after a week for a couple of days thing as sort of a ritual as I've found something of a taste improvement. Maybe my imagination. But doing this has never impeded any carbonation. Moreover, I've always had sufficient carbonation by day 6...I dip into my beers all through the brewing process just to see how things are coming along. I've also had bottles both in the refrigerator and out of the refrigerator while in storage, also to no avail.

2. I am 'mostly' positive its dextrose because it looks like dextrose, tastes like dextrose and some brew store guy told me its dextrose.

3. I am using your regular ol' joe blow wyeast pale ale yeast...not cheap. Wyeast comes as a starter, no?

4. I'll try the bleach solution next time.

So to conclude....here's how I'll do things different when I get around to the next batch.

A. Use a bleach solution to sanitize my equipment and be very careful in doing so.
B. Use only a secondary glass carboy for all fermentation to reduce probability of infection and redundancies
C. Repitch some champagne or brewer's yeast before bottling.
D. Pass overthe 'cold conditioning' portion of my brewing process
E. Use an assorted variety of bottles to ensure that bottle seal is not the problem in the carbonation process
F. Monitor the beers over a 3 week period to ensure an adequate time has been given for carbonation.
G. Take gravity readings at all steps.

I'll report back in a number of weeks with my results...hopefully good.

Thanks again for all the replies!

Chlorine based cleaners like bleach taste like crap in the finished product. Make sure it's rinsed really well and dried prior to filling. Beware of bleach!

Get rid of your brewing partner. Kegging rules

I filled a growler tonight to take with me so I could share my punkin ale. Best feeling ever!