Easy Stove-Top Pasteurizing - With Pics

Agreed. If you are new at this, I would check after 2 days, minimum of 3. Seems to be that cider carbonation moves fast, far faster than beer. My Irish Red is still in the bottles after 2 weeks and carbonation isn't done...the speed of the cider took me by surprise. Lesson learned!

I plan on giving this whole cider thing a try monday. I was wanting to take some to thanksgiving since it looks like it ferments crazy fast. If one was wanting a mildly sweet carbed cider around 1.010 should one bottle it at around 1.015 and then let the last .005 do the carbonation?

AwesomeSquad said:

I plan on giving this whole cider thing a try monday. I was wanting to take some to thanksgiving since it looks like it ferments crazy fast. If one was wanting a mildly sweet carbed cider around 1.010 should one bottle it at around 1.015 and then let the last .005 do the carbonation?

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No, I would let it get down to 1.010 if that's your target. You can then either prime or just bottle - I suspect you won't taste the difference.

Awesome, thanks.

Pappers,

Wow just read thru this whole thread and lots of great info I'm particularly impressed about how you continue to come back and answer multiple questions over and over again for people plus you've provided some killer infomation.
I'm going to try pausterizing my cider and I was thinking about a few things.
1. Regarding carbonation levels will the same amount of sugar/5 gallons cause the same carbonation level in a cider as in a beer? for example if I think my IPA carbontion level would be good for my cider would the same amount work or are their other factors at play. If this works I'll likely say "I want 2.5 volumes" and use BeerSmith to calculate the priming sugar amount.
2. Also I get pouring and tasting is good to check carbonation levels but do you also use a hydrometer on the bottle being opened to calculate how much fermentation has occured since bottling and thus how much CO2. Example if your cider reads 1010 before priming sugar and 1013 after once it's back down to 1010 your carbonation level should be right on right?

Veinman said:

Pappers,

Wow just read thru this whole thread and lots of great info I'm particularly impressed about how you continue to come back and answer multiple questions over and over again for people plus you've provided some killer infomation.
I'm going to try pausterizing my cider and I was thinking about a few things.
1. Regarding carbonation levels will the same amount of sugar/5 gallons cause the same carbonation level in a cider as in a beer? for example if I think my IPA carbontion level would be good for my cider would the same amount work or are their other factors at play. If this works I'll likely say "I want 2.5 volumes" and use BeerSmith to calculate the priming sugar amount.
2. Also I get pouring and tasting is good to check carbonation levels but do you also use a hydrometer on the bottle being opened to calculate how much fermentation has occured since bottling and thus how much CO2. Example if your cider reads 1010 before priming sugar and 1013 after once it's back down to 1010 your carbonation level should be right on right?

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For (1), I would think the carbonation level would be the same. The yeast is eating the same sugar in both cases, presumably producing the same amount of CO2, leading to the same carbonation level. But I'm not an expert on carbonation.

For (2), I do not measure it with a hydrometer after I bottle. I don't know what the difference in gravity is after priming - I've just never measured it. For me, opening/pouring/tasting works fine - the key is to get it before it carbonates too much. In other words, I err on the side of too little carbonation. But, you might find it interesting to take the gravity readings before and after priming, and then before pasteurizing. Sorry I can't speak from experience on that.

Pappers,

Thanks again your quick responses are impressive and appreciated. I have just started my second batch of cider/apple wine, my first was still as I didn't have a keg and wanted to backsweeten.
It makes sense to me that same amount of priming sugar = same carbonation but who knows, I've noticed BeerSmith says cider can be between 1.0-2.8 volumes of carbonation which is a massive range. I'm thinking around 2.0 would be good starting place as I usually start in the middle on a first guess. Also I'll take the measurments at bottling and at pasteurization when I do it.
I will post back here when I bottle mine in a month or so to add to all of the knowledge in this thread.

So I made a batch of Cider on 11/16 with pasteurized pure apple juice. dextrose and champagne yeast it had an OG of 1066. The champagne yeast went to town on all the sugars and by yesterday (11/23) it was down to 1015.
I wanted a fairly sweet cider finishing at 1012 so I bottled the cider without any additional sugars, when transfering to the bottling bucket I stirred it enough to try and get as much of the CO2 out of suspension as possible. My thought process was that 3 gravity points translates to a carbonation level of around 2.8-2.9 which is right where I wanted.
I opened up a bottle a few minutes ago, it was at room temperature, and it had that hiss sound like a bottle carbed beer, I poured it and it poured with lots of head and bubbles but after about 15 minutes it was basically flat tasting, Also I took a reading and the gravity was 1012.
Here's what I'm thinking: Between the hiss, the pouring with head and the gravity readings I'm fairly certain I've produced enough CO2 however since it was warm and young little was dissolved in the cider.

All this leads me to believe pasteurizing tonight would be best and even waiting a second day could yield dangerously high CO2 levels. Am I mainly on target here what do the more experienced people think?

Veinman said:

All this leads me to believe pasteurizing tonight would be best and even waiting a second day could yield dangerously high CO2 levels. Am I mainly on target here what do the more experienced people think?

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Yup, I think you're right.

So it turns out that the warnings associated with pasteurizing over carbonated bottle is spot on so DON'T DO IT.

My bottles were "gushers" before pasteurizing and sure enough one of the first three bottles exploded after placing it in the water. Luckily no one was hurt because it was a fairly deep kettle and most of the blast and shards were directed up not out. But I did lose a bottle cider and a pair of underwear.

Once again my stupidity has failed to kill me.

How explosive is an over carbonated bottle in a 180 degree pot of water? Devastatingly explosive.
How fast can a shard of glass fly after said bottle explodes? Faster than you can run-faster than you sneeze; probably slightly slower than a speeding bullet, but than again- maybe not.
How far can this speeding glass travel? Far enough for shards to embed themselves in trim 14 feet from the origin of disaster.
What are your chances of surviving this experience intact? Slim to none.
How do I know this? Because a little laziness on my part just cost me three hours of cleaning cider, water and glass from a sizable kitchen after four bottles simultaneously exploded. I'm lucky though, because I tried to make sure my wife, dog, cat and myself stayed out of the room.
Had I been in the room, trauma or at the very least- an extended stay in the the emergency room.
Take heed kids. ****'s dangerous out there. Play it safe player.

upnoath said:

How explosive is an over carbonated bottle in a 180 degree pot of water? Devastatingly explosive.

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Why did you try to pasteurize an over carbonated bottle of cider?

keithfitzpatrick said:

So it turns out that the warnings associated with pasteurizing over carbonated bottle is spot on so DON'T DO IT.

My bottles were "gushers" before pasteurizing and sure enough one of the first three bottles exploded after placing it in the water. Luckily no one was hurt because it was a fairly deep kettle and most of the blast and shards were directed up not out. But I did lose a bottle cider and a pair of underwear.

Once again my stupidity has failed to kill me.

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What is it with people trying to pasteurize overcarbonated bottles?

There's really no excuse. Pure laziness and the belief that an explosion wouldn't amount to much more than a few caps popping off. I learned otherwise. Mine's just another cautionary tale that further corroborates the 'bottle bombs' story. Myth confirmed.

Pappers said:

In another thread, someone recently posted that they left their cider too long after bottling (they had been out of town) and had two explode. Then they went ahead and tried pasteurizing some of the bottles - they exploded when they were heated up.

I am very concerned about people pasteurizing without opening a bottle to test carbonation or when they know the bottles are over-carbonated. Someone is going to get seriously hurt.

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from an earlier post

Pappers said:

Added October 26, 2010: Through pm's and other threads, I have been chatting with people who have been trying to pasteurize bottles that are over-carbonated - in other words, they waited too long to pasteurize. Please do not do this, it is extraordinarily dangerous. Head injuries, eye injuries, flying glass shards and burns from hot liquid are all possible outcomes. Use common sense: 1) do not pasteurize a batch if you haven't opened a bottle and seen that the carbonation level is right and 2) if the bottle is over-carbonated (gushing, foam everywhere) do not do pasteurize. Rather, open the bottles and release some of the pressure before your bottles explode.

If you are doing this for the first time, if you are learning how your yeast, your juice, your processes work, test your bottles early and often, to avoid over-carbonation.

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From Part II of the opening post

I just wanted to post another successful result using this process. Made up my first batch of cider on 10/10/10. Not knowing if I would like the results, I only did a two gallon batch. Stopped fermentation at 1.010 and then cold crashed until 11/23/10. Tested carbonation after 3 days, and four days. At four days it was perfect. Pasteurized with success, and now I have them in my basement cellaring for at least the next month before Christmas.

So to reiterate with Pappers... TEST THE CARBONATION! If it is over-carbonated, stick it in your fridge, and test earlier/more often next time.

If done properly, it works. On a batch of 20 bottles, I "lost" 3 to testing for carb. I still got to drink it and enjoy it. I found this no cost at all to assure I got the cider to my preferred taste/carb levels, but also SAFETY to ensure no explosions when pasteurizing.

As an aside: FYI: I went to Yuengling brewery in Pottsville, PA yesterday and they pasteurize their bottles with hot water at 140F for 12 minutes.

cyberbackpacker said:

I just wanted to post another successful result using this process. Made up my first batch of cider on 10/10/10. Not knowing if I would like the results, I only did a two gallon batch. Stopped fermentation at 1.010 and then cold crashed until 11/23/10. Tested carbonation after 3 days, and four days. At four days it was perfect. Pasteurized with success, and now I have them in my basement cellaring for at least the next month before Christmas.

So to reiterate with Pappers... TEST THE CARBONATION! If it is over-carbonated, stick it in your fridge, and test earlier/more often next time.

If done properly, it works. On a batch of 20 bottles, I "lost" 3 to testing for carb. I still got to drink it and enjoy it. I found this no cost at all to assure I got the cider to my preferred taste/carb levels, but also SAFETY to ensure no explosions when pasteurizing.

As an aside: FYI: I went to Yuengling brewery in Pottsville, PA yesterday and they pasteurize their bottles with hot water at 140F for 12 minutes.

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Did you use any priming solution? My cider is at 1.020 now. I am thinking about racking at 1.015 and bottling right away. will that work? My desire is slightly sweet carbonated light cider. Sg was 1.065

robert9 said:

Did you use any priming solution? My cider is at 1.020 now. I am thinking about racking at 1.015 and bottling right away. will that work? My desire is slightly sweet carbonated light cider. Sg was 1.065

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You don't need to use priming sugar if its that high. You need to ferment about 2-3 points in the bottles to get a decent carbonation level. If you bottle at 1015 without priming sugar then once it falls to be about 1012 (and you've checked the level with a test bottle) you can pasteurize. If you add priming sugar you'll bump that 1015 to 1018 then let it fall back down to 1015 to pasteurize. The yeast will have food to eat and thus carb up your bottles eitheway. Just make sure you have a reading at bottling time and are carefully watching your bottles by opening one every few days to avoid gushers and a dangerous explosion when pasteurizing.

robert9 said:

Did you use any priming solution? My cider is at 1.020 now. I am thinking about racking at 1.015 and bottling right away. will that work? My desire is slightly sweet carbonated light cider. Sg was 1.065

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Yes I did use priming sugar. I punched in my desire carb levels into beer smith, and then used that amount of corn sugar (I did not want it to dry out any further).

Hello,
One more question. Is racking to secondary necessary? Can i bottle from primary? And if yes, how do I fight with sediment in cider? I sip about 7 oz for gravity reading and it is full of sediment. I used safale s04 yeast.

Robert, I rack from primary to a bottling bucket and bottle from there.

Thanks. And what about sediment? Is there a way to reduce its amount in cider?

When you rack, you'll leave much of the sediment behind. When the bottles carbonate, more yeast will flocculate and then when you chill the bottles, more sediment will drop out.

I must say, I find this thread both amusing and scary at the same time. Amusing in that folks are worried about bottle bombs from yeast, but not about heating pressurized glass bottles. Scary because glass is inherently unpredictable, and frankly, I'm a bit surprised that more explosions haven't occurred.

Pappers, while I appreciate the information and detail which you have provided, I'm not convinced that your method is safe at any reasonable carbonation level. You have admonished people to not to pasteurize over-carbonated bottles, but at what level is it over-carbonated?

If you take any brewing calculator (see Brewheads) and punch in a few numbers it may be informative. Take 3 volumes of CO2 and a temperature of 190 F and see what the pressure inside the bottle becomes (135 PSI). That's enough pressure to blow Champagne bottles. Even Champagne bottles can explode - visit any Champagne producer and you'll invariably find some broken glass. Beer bottle are definitely not designed for that (what do they test them at 60 PSI maybe?). At 2 volumes you get 98 PSI.

So back to the calculator. If you have 2 volumes of CO2 and the temp in the pot drops down to 160 when you put the bottles in and stays at that level, you'll only get 75 PSI. Honestly, I don't even want to go there, but at least it is a lot lower.

Now yeast themselves will only ferment up to around 7-8 atmospheres of CO2 pressure (even Champagne yeast). So they aren't going to produce a pressure above about 98-110 PSI at room temp. So if you are worried that the yeast are going to explode bottles at 98-110 PSI, then why on earth would you heat bottles so that they range from 98-135 PSI. I cannot understand the logic.

The only rationale that I can put to it is if the yeast are left alone, that 98-110 PSI will be there at all times where in the pasteurization process, the bottles only stay at that pressure for 10 minutes and are then able to cool down back to reasonable pressures, so that if they survive the boiling, you should be okay. However as you reach in to grab a 190 degree glass bottle with 100 PSI in it, I'd only do it wearing some heavy duty mitts and some safety goggles.

The fact that you've been fortunate thus far does not guarantee future safety. I've had some commercial bottles explode in a small outdoor fridge when it lost power and the temp was above 100F, so putting bottles with any level of carbonation in 190F water is potentially dangerous. I would strongly encourage anyone considering this approach to rethink the effort. It's a heck of a lot safer to force carbonate to 2 volumes of CO2 if you want to keep something sweet.

Medsen

Medsen, I share your concern, especially as people have posted things (here and in other threads) like "my bottles were gushing but I tried to pasteurize anyway".

And I agree that force carbing is an easy way to approach the problem, if you keg.

I am careful and cautious, do exactly what I outline at the beginning of this thread. After a couple dozen batches, I have yet to have a bottle explode. I promise that if I do, I will post about it here.

Edit: I have also seen a small commercial brewery that pasteurizes its beer in essentially the same way - a large metal container that they fill with bottles, close the lid, fill with heated water, empty and then remove the bottles. Also, a sticky at the top of the cider forum https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f32/i-thought-i-would-share-some-info-139409/ describes how the author has pasteurized bottle-conditioned cider. This is a process that has been used to some benefit by others, not something I made up.

despite the concerns listed above, or perhaps bolstered by them and determined to test fate, i recently attempted my first stovetop pasteurization. my bottles were very nicely carbonated but by no means gushers. i wasn't too excited about dunking them in the very hot water recommended on this thread (about 90 rest-of-the-world degrees) so i tested how long it would take a bottle of water to get up to around 65 (a good kill temp) in a 70 degree pot, it took about 5 minutes. I decided on 20 minutes at 70.
Most of the batch was bottled in 750ml swing-top bottles (used) procured from a belgian beer seller and the rest in regular crown cap beer bottles. and one in a test 500 ml plastic fizzy water bottle. In went the small bottles, with a towel over the top and then the lid, at about 15 minutes there was a pop sound. honestly i thought it was the plastic one, as this was no screaming shrapnel bang. but sure enough it was glass. i hoped it was just a flaw in the bottle and carried on (very carefully) with the big ones. meanwhile the plastic one looked like i photoshopped it into a bloated hippo. it expanded like crazy and the liquid level was lower, don't know if that was due to increase in volume or if it somehow leaked. don't really care
1st batch of big ones went fine but at the end the water was very cool, 45 or so. don't know if they really got to temperature. labeled them so if they go bomb i know why. upped to 80 degrees for the next batch. after a few minutes they were really fizzing at the rubber seals. they fizzed for a while. the last batch also at 80 degrees fizzed less but there was fizzing. i'm sure these got up to temperature.
questions: why did i lose that first bottle? were the swing tops also over-pressurized but survived due to leaking? how much gas did i lose... if it is only very high pressure that will allow leaking then i am probably fine, but if it was a combination of pressure + the seals becoming too soft in the heat then am i likely to have lost all carbonation pressure? for now i'm considering it a partial success as these guys definitely had enough sugar left to make them a terrorist threat. but i now want to age for a while so i won't be opening one for a couple months.

Sorry your process did't work. There are many variables, you used different sized bottles, at a different temperature, for a different length of time than the process I use.

i'm not saying it didn't work actually (well, aside from the broken bottle!), unless you think that my leaky rubber seals scuppered the whole game. i'll post results once i know more.

I did another 5 gallon batch last night, while also washing the dinner dishes and making brownies. Another two cases of sparkling cider, ready to drink!

Is the sugar content of the cider inversely proportional to the amount of time it takes to carb up ( I want to bottle it fairly sweet) .

I desperately want to do this but bottle bombs (before i pasteurize) scare the hell outta me. (i know not to pasteurize if they're overcarbed)I've read post where ppl have said it took their brew as little as 9 hours to carb.

I read another post that said a brew was well carbed in the AM and there were 4 bottle bombs before the bottling session at the end of the work day. if 8-10 hours makes that much difference i may not be able to pull it off without some explosions.

dusty1025 said:

Is the sugar content of the cider inversely proportional to the amount of time it takes to carb up ( I want to bottle it fairly sweet) .

I desperately want to do this but bottle bombs (before i pasteurize) scare the hell outta me. (i know not to pasteurize if they're overcarbed)I've read post where ppl have said it took their brew as little as 9 hours to carb.

I read another post that said a brew was well carbed in the AM and there were 4 bottle bombs before the bottling session at the end of the work day. if 8-10 hours makes that much difference i may not be able to pull it off without some explosions.

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It depends on a lot of factors. I bottled my latest batch on Saturday (with priming sugar) and bottled on Thursday night, last night. I make a simple cider, with just apple juice and no additional sugars, use an ale yeast (like Nottingham), and let it ferment down to around 1.010. I've not had a bottle break during pasteurization or explode afterwards.

Check post # 80 in this thread for a fuller explanation.

I think some folks have tried to bottle when their ciders are much sweeter and fermentation is still pretty active. Tell us a little bit about what type of cider you are making, your recipe, etc. and we might be able to offer more help. Cheers!

with all the (justified) fear of exploding bottles i think it is worth considering that if you bottle is largely submerged in water, in a metal pot, and the pot is covered, it's not THAT big a deal if one bottle pops. not an excuse to be overly cavalier, but it's quite a different ordeal than if one blows up in your face

dinnerstick said:

with all the (justified) fear of exploding bottles i think it is worth considering that if you bottle is largely submerged in water, in a metal pot, and the pot is covered, it's not THAT big a deal if one bottle pops. not an excuse to be overly cavalier, but it's quite a different ordeal than if one blows up in your face

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the pasteurization i'm not concerned about. if they're not over carbed it won't be an issue. its the bottled to pasteurizing interval that i'm concerned about.

Jolly_Old_St_Pappers said:

It depends on a lot of factors. I bottled my latest batch on Saturday (with priming sugar) and bottled on Thursday night, last night. I make a simple cider, with just apple juice and no additional sugars, use an ale yeast (like Nottingham), and let it ferment down to around 1.010. I've not had a bottle break during pasteurization or explode afterwards.

Check post # 80 in this thread for a fuller explanation.

I think some folks have tried to bottle when their ciders are much sweeter and fermentation is still pretty active. Tell us a little bit about what type of cider you are making, your recipe, etc. and we might be able to offer more help. Cheers!

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i plan on keeping it simple with just storebought preservative free juice, pectic enzyme and ale yeast. possibly 1 pounds of brown sugar. shooting for a sweet cider with about 8-9% abv. i'v read this entire thread repeatedly it is incredibly well detailed. (thanks Jim)
i'm mainly concerned about how fast the bottle conditioning will progress once the brew hits 8 or 9 %abv. will 8 or 10 hours be critical when a plastic soda bottle is firm to palpation?

Jolly_Old_St_Pappers said:

It depends on a lot of factors. I bottled my latest batch on Saturday (with priming sugar) and bottled on Thursday night, last night. I make a simple cider, with just apple juice and no additional sugars, use an ale yeast (like Nottingham), and let it ferment down to around 1.010. I've not had a bottle break during pasteurization or explode afterwards.

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what is your ABV when it ferments out to 1.010? i'm shooting for semi-dry or a bit sweeter

When I let the gravity get to 1.010, bottle carbonating is not a tremendously fast process, usually around 5 days. If you are concerned, you can check frequently (daily). Also, in the worst case, you find that the bottles are over-carbed and you uncap them and release some of the pressure.

Because I don't add sugar, my abv is lower than what you are shooting for, usually in the 4 - 5% range.

ok you've eased my mind a great deal. I think i'll add a pound of brown sugar to bump the ABV a little but I'll still bottle at 1.010 that way the bottle conditioning doesn't take off. Thanks again Jim.

Cheers,
Dusty

dusty1025 said:

ok you've eased my mind a great deal. I think i'll add a pound of brown sugar to bump the ABV a little but I'll still bottle at 1.010 that way the bottle conditioning doesn't take off. Thanks again Jim.

Cheers,
Dusty

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Sounds like a plan. One caveat, because I don't add sugar to my sparkling cider recipe (the ones that I carbonate), I can't say from experience what your batch will do. I would still check early and often, because this is your first batch. The ones you open, pour over ice and enjoy!

Pappers:

I have 2, 1 gallon jugs of unfiltered, pasteurized cider (whole foods brand) fermenting right now with just some pectic enzyme and ale yeast. I want to do use your method to make a sweet sparkling cider and could use your advice on a couple things.

Both gallons SG were 1.051.. if I get it down to 1.010 and add 2 oz priming sugar (assuming I should do 1 oz per gallon.. let me know what you think about this much), how do you know what the actual final gravity is to calculate your ABV? Do you just take a gravity reading once done carbing?

I am curious as to how much it would bump up the ABV by carbing it.. 1.051 -> 1.010 = 6%, so do you know an estimate on what it would ultimately end up at?

Thanks for the guide, very helpful.