Why brew a lager?

You'll have to pardon my ignorance on this one, but I'm wondering why people brew lagers over ales.

If its a clean taste profile that is desired, won't a clean-fermenting ale yeast do?
Is the extra equipment (temp control) and time needed really worth it?

Enlighten me!

Signed,
Curious Ale-smith

A lager, IMO, is like white wine. It's easy drinking, very clean and just a nice change from ales. You really taste the ingredients, and the ingredients alone.

I personally love a good schwarzbier, Kostriker is great, the lack of esters from the yeast let the malt shine through in a way that I've never tasted with any ale fermented porters/stouts.

To each their own, but lager isn't a ubiquitous term for American Light Lager.

Hell, when I was in Prague a monastery served up what they called an IPA, but it was really a hoppy lager, it was amazing.

I only brew ale because I just don't have the ability to lager, if I could, I'd make all kinds of lager.

There are lots of different reasons because there are lots of different lagers that are unlike ales. Also, there is the whole trying to do something different thing. For me that's it. I like to play around and experiment and since I've been doing ales for a while now lagers a new way to kind of spice up the brewing routine. Kind of another thing to learn. I'm doing some more flavorful lagers right now but from what I've heard it is actually really difficult to brew something like a light american lager and make it taste good so there is also that challenge aspect of it as well.

A well brewed lager is on a different plane of existence than a clean ale. There is a real crispness and lager character you can only get from fermenting cold and lagering for a long time.

Just like ales there are some amazing lagers out there. You don't think a lager is only a fizzy yellow beer do you? That's just one STYLE of lager, just like a kolsh or a cream ale is a fizzy yellow type of ale. In fact, these beers range from bright spicy bliss to sweat malty mania. Are you aware that the following styles are all lagers?

Oktoberfest/Marzen
Bock
Dunkel
Doppelbock
Dortmunder
Eisbock
Maibock
Helles
Pilsner
Bohemian Pilsner
Rauchbier
Schwarzbier
Vienna Lager
Amber Lager
Steam Beer
and so on....

I suggest that if you want to try a lager that is rich, hearty, with spice and punch that you try one of these beers;

Celebrator Doppelbock.



Paulaner Salvator Doppelbock



Schneider Aventinus Weizen Bock · Doppelbock/Dunkel;


I dare you to put any of those three up against your favorite hearty ale, be it a stout, or whatever, and tell me if it has no flavor or character.

And also try Great Lakes Elliot Ness Vienna Lager to see that even quaffer/lawn mower lagers aren't all thin and flavorless as you might think.



(And if you like that, brew my vienna lager from my pulldown someday.)

Brewing lagers is just like wanting to brew different ale styles, except they're a little more tricky to do right.

Dont forget Baltic Porters Revvy


@ the OP. I am about to start into lagers soon and the main reason is they are a different animal that I want to drink and brew. Im going to start with a czech pilsner and then do a Baltic Porter.

As for the added expense of temperature control, you should have that for ales anyways, if you are doing it right.

Revvy, I absolutely love Eliot Ness from Great Lakes. Is your Vienna Lager recipe very similar to that?

I personally think it's better.

Xpertskir said:

Dont forget Baltic Porters Revvy

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Huh, I never realized it was til you mentioned it and I googled it. Interesting.

See OP, you learn something new everyday. :rockin:

Its like asking why bulk age in barrels? Is it worth the time, equipment, $$??

IMO. Everyone has there own style that makes them go crazy over there love of beer. Some of the tastiest brews ive had have been lagers. From pilsners to dunkels to baltic porters there are just as many flavors you can introduce into lagers as you can ales. Look at SA new "spring thaw" double agent. Its an IPL "India Pale Lager". Where they use citrusy floral west coast hops and really give the IPA a new kick. Im not a huge fan of SA release but i think it will open up new doors for others to represent there flair in this possibly new style.

As soon as i get some space for a chest freezer it will be my next venture into homebrewing for sure. There also really great session beers, and i tend to "party" alot. So its a good change once in a while for the lower ABV also.

Revvy said:

Huh, I never realized it was til you mentioned it and I googled it. Interesting.

See OP, you learn something new everyday. :rockin:

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I hadnt either until I starting thinking about brewing one.

It makes sense though, there is a cleaness and richness of malt flavor that I havent tasted in other porters(ales).


Its probably my favorite dark beer style, not that I dont love a nice Imperial Stout.

Hmmm, good reasonings and insights so far, thanks!

I know there many different types of delicious lagers out there... I was more thinking along the lines of "I want to brew a Celebrator clone...why would I use a lager yeast? Why not make it techinacally and ale and save myself time some trouble (fermenting low with a clean ale yeast). Is the difference worth it?"

I mean, I've never had a Celebrator brewed with an ale yeast, so I can't say. I love full flavor beers, but I also love clean and crisp lighter beers too. I'm more curious if ale and lager yeasts are really so different. It seems that the clean/crispness of a great lager cannot be matched by an ale, from what I'm reading...it lets the malt/hop flavored through more on their own...

I've yet to find a "clean ale yeast" that matches or even nears the cleanliness of a lager yeast, especially for the "fizzy yellow" variety of them. With darker styles, maybe, but even the most cleanest ale yeast, no matter what temp you try brewing it at, it's not totally clean.

I think the biggest thing is the lager phase, in the cold the yeast still continues to go back and clean up after itself. Even better than an ale yeast in a long secondary or extended primary.

GaryJohn said:

It seems that the clean/crispness of a great lager cannot be matched by an ale, from what I'm reading...it lets the malt/hop flavored through more on their own...

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Bingo...The low temps lagers are fermented at theres no other way to get that crisp body, thus ale yeasts do not perform in those temp ranges and cannot achieve this profile

Xpertskir said:

Dont forget Baltic Porters Revvy


@ the OP. I am about to start into lagers soon and the main reason is they are a different animal that I want to drink and brew. Im going to start with a czech pilsner and then do a Baltic Porter.

As for the added expense of temperature control, you should have that for ales anyways, if you are doing it right.

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I'm fermenting a Baltic Porter right now w/an ale yeast. Temp is 58*F and after a week it's still got bubbles in the airlock.

GaryJohn said:

You'll have to pardon my ignorance on this one, but I'm wondering why people brew lagers over ales.

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I don't brew lagers over ales, I brew lagers in addition to ales. Why? Because I like them. I suspect many others who brew them do so for the same reason.

GaryJohn said:

If its a clean taste profile that is desired, won't a clean-fermenting ale yeast do?

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No, it won't. A clean ale yeast still does not produce the same beer as a lager yeast.

GaryJohn said:

Is the extra equipment (temp control) and time needed really worth it?

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That's up to you. If you don't like lagers I'm not going to try and talk you into brewing one. If you don't like them it may be because you've never had a good one. The world of lagers is very broad as is pointed out in the posts above.

You really don't need any extra equipment if you already have a beer fridge and live in a cold climate. (My basement is currently at 50F and will probably stay there for a couple of months) If not you do have to provide an environment suitable for lager fermentation as well as the lagering itself.

BigEd said:

I don't brew lagers over ales, I brew lagers in addition to ales. Why? Because I like them. I suspect many others who brew them do so for the same reason.



No, it won't. A clean ale yeast still does not produce the same beer as a lager yeast.





That's up to you. If you don't like lagers I'm not going to try and talk you into brewing one. If you don't like them it may be because you've never had a good one. The world of lagers is very broad as is pointed out in the posts above.

You really don't need any extra equipment if you already have a beer fridge and live in a cold climate. (My basement is currently at 50F and will probably stay there for a couple of months) If not you do have to provide an environment suitable for lager fermentation as well as the lagering itself.

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And if you live in a clime like Michigan, OR CHICAGO, with a winter, you don't even have to get all fancy smancy.....Ugly junk 2012, Ghetto Lagering Chamber

A world without lager is just as bad as a world without ale.

Helles is brilliant in it's taste and origin.

If Celebrator didn't exist, my life would be incomplete.

I love brewing crystal clear lagers in addition to my ales. I also love the challenge of brewing lagers in a controlled environment, and tinkering with making starters at lager temp and room temp in an attempt to perfect my process.

Im currently lagering my first lager, with help from the afore mentioned Michigan weather. I pulled a sample when moving to secondary and I gotta tell you it was one of the smoothest and most refreshing beers ive ever had, and its not done or carbed yet! Its definately worth delving into.

I brew many more ales than lagers, but why wouldn't you brew a lager? Why limit the palette you use, as it were?

Also, lager yeasts aren't totally neutral. They're cleaner and not full of esters, but do a split batch with a couple of lager yeasts and you'll see a difference as one really accentuates a heavy malt character and the other lets some hops shine through, etc etc. The flavors vary otherwise you'd just see one lager yeast. I've had some amazing lagers in Austria that didn't taste like ale at all. They had their own character. And that character is worthy of exploring as a brewer. If you don't have the pipeline to support making them very much, try to sneak one in once in a while and you won't regret it.

MattHollingsworth said:

I brew many more ales than lagers, but why wouldn't you brew a lager? Why limit the palette you use, as it were?

Also, lager yeasts aren't totally neutral. They're cleaner and not full of esters, but do a split batch with a couple of lager yeasts and you'll see a difference as one really accentuates a heavy malt character and the other lets some hops shine through, etc etc. The flavors vary otherwise you'd just see one lager yeast. I've had some amazing lagers in Austria that didn't taste like ale at all. They had their own character. And that character is worthy of exploring as a brewer. If you don't have the pipeline to support making them very much, try to sneak one in once in a while and you won't regret it.

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Once I established a good pipeline my lagers really got better; all my beers have improved in quality because they are not rushed to the tap anymore.

DenverUSMC said:

Once I established a good pipeline my lagers really got better; all my beers have improved in quality because they are not rushed to the tap anymore.

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Ales also benefit from a little bit of a wait, at least once bottled. I know a lot of newer brewers who don't brew enough, so when they brew, they often finish drinking it before it's even been in the bottle a month. I tell them to brew more and let it sit a little. 6 weeks is good. Of course, if you're kegging you can drink ales faster, but these guys aren't kegging.

With lagers, I never rush them. No point in making a lager if you're not going to take the care to produce one properly.

i didn't totally get the difference between a "clean ale" and a lager until i tasted them side by side. my clean altbier (ale) fermented at 59 and loved by me and everyone tastes like apple pie if you sip it right after drinking a high-quality lager. drink it alone and you don't necessarily pick up the fruitiness at all.

so to really appreciate the difference, buy a kolsch and a helles and drink them side by side. or a doppelbock and a scotch strong. or a dusseldorf alt and an american amber ale.

lagers are awesome and worth the wait. i particularly love Helles. It reminds me of the times i've spent in Munich enjoying a liter in the park watching foosball games! ja! A helles is very hard to find. So i brew my own. for $400 bucks you can have a fridge, and all the riggings for 10 gallon setup. I use my fermentation fridge for ales and lagers. i can control the temp to 1 degree and the results are always great. Right now i have a german pilsner on tap and i have a schwarzbier finishing up its primary fermentation (1 month at 50degrees) this weekend. I'll transfer to kegs and lager it for at least a month longer. back to your question: why brew a lager? cause i can. why brew a lager? cause lagers taste great and are different than ales. with a fermentation fridge i can brew anything. and that is why i brew in general so i can make any beer any way that i want.

Now excuse my ignorance.. but what would one get if they took something as heavy as a Russian Imperial Stout and used Lager years and then fermented at lager temps and lagered it as well..? What style would that then become..?

I love Marzen and Stouts.. and just curious.. Might try it later.

Revvy said:

Huh, I never realized it was til you mentioned it and I googled it. Interesting.

See OP, you learn something new everyday. :rockin:

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Technically Baltic Porter can be either an ale or a lager. Usually it's fermented quite cold and cold conditioned, though, so even if it's an ale yeast it will have a very similar flavor profile.

CDGoin said:

Now excuse my ignorance.. but what would one get if they took something as heavy as a Russian Imperial Stout and used Lager years and then fermented at lager temps and lagered it as well..? What style would that then become..?

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The quintessential "big" lager is, imo, the doppelbock. The closest lager to an RIS is probably the baltic porter. If you took the same recipe and swapped yeasts and temps, that's probably what you'd have.

The last issue of BYO was all about big, dark lagers. I brewed a Weizen Trippelbock (1.108) recipe from this issue over the weekend.

Thanks everyone

CDGoin said:

Now excuse my ignorance.. but what would one get if they took something as heavy as a Russian Imperial Stout and used Lager years and then fermented at lager temps and lagered it as well..? What style would that then become..?

I love Marzen and Stouts.. and just curious.. Might try it later.

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Try it as a split batch, if you're curious. Brew the RIS, split and ferment with the ale and lager yeast of your choice.

I brew lagers b/c I love to drink them, and for the challenge. After a while, it gets pretty easy to brew an outstanding ale. If you can brew a really good Helles that scores in the high 30's/low 40's, you have really accomplished something as a homebrewer. There are nowhere for flaws to hide...it is quite difficult to do it on a level of the best commercial brewers.

One point re: clean ale vs lager is that to get a really clean ale, you end up doing most of the same things you'd do with a lager. Relatively cool fermentation, plus a lager-like cold stage for a Kolsch or Altbier. So it's not that different a process.

I'm drinking my first lager now (based on Revvy's vienna) and it is radically different from any of my ales in a way that I don't think could be replicated with an ale yeast.

Why brew an ale? There is a huge variety of commercial ales out there, why brew, when you can buy? When I started brewing, there was no craft beer scene, therefore I brewed dark rich ales, as those were hard to find. Now I find myself brewing more and more lagers as the commercial selection is much smaller than that of ales!