A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
My tap water is pretty bad so I want to try using distilled water. I'm going to brew the Centennial Blonde recipe on this website, so it's pretty light.

If i'm using Beersmith it's telling me to mash in with 2.81 gallons of water and batch sparge with 5.76 gallons. So how much Calcium Chloride do I add to the mash? Also do I need to add any acidulated malt?

Thanks,
Zach
 
If you want guidance re Beersmith post your question in a Beersmith related thread (or start one). If you want guidance related to the Primer read #1 in this thread.
 
ajdelange said:
If you want guidance re Beersmith post your question in a Beersmith related thread (or start one). If you want guidance related to the Primer read #1 in this thread.
Click to expand...

I read number one and this is my question. This is not a Beersmith question.
 
zach1288 said:
If i'm using Beersmith it's telling me to mash in with 2.81 gallons of water and batch sparge with 5.76 gallons. So how much Calcium Chloride do I add to the mash?
Click to expand...

None, it goes into the water.

Yooper said:
Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated.
Click to expand...

For 2.81 gallons use 2.81/5 tsp. For 5.76 gal use 5.76/5 tsp.


zach1288 said:
Also do I need to add any acidulated malt?
Click to expand...

Yooper said:
Add 2% sauermalz to the grist.
Click to expand...

Those are the answers from the Primer. Are those the answers you are looking for?
 
ajdelange said:
None, it goes into the water.



For 2.81 gallons use 2.81/5 tsp. For 5.76 gal use 5.76/5 tsp.






Those are the answers from the Primer. Are those the answers you are looking for?
Click to expand...

So I add the calcium chloride to the strike water? Do I need to add it to the sparge water?

Also doesn't calcium chloride lower the PH? Why do I need to lower it further with the acidulated malt?

Thanks.
 
You are adding calcium chloride in part to supply calcium for yeast health, good runoff etc. but mostly to get some chloride into the water which makes the beer smoother, rounder and enhances mouthfeel.

Yes, the calcium does lower the pH a bit but is not nearly as effective as the acid in the sauermalz. That's why you need both.
 
ajdelange said:
You are adding calcium chloride in part to supply calcium for yeast health, good runoff etc. but mostly to get some chloride into the water which makes the beer smoother, rounder and enhances mouthfeel.

Yes, the calcium does lower the pH a bit but is not nearly as effective as the acid in the sauermalz. That's why you need both.
Click to expand...

So for my sparge water I can use straight distilled water?

Also I'm a little confused about the baseline. Let's say I wanted to make a british ale. So I add calcium chloride, gypsum and do I add the 2% acid malt from the baseline?

Thank you!
 
zach1288 said:
So I add the calcium chloride to the strike water? Do I need to add it to the sparge water?
Click to expand...

You don't absolutely need to but it is probably a good idea as the fermenting beer benefits from the calcium and finished beer from both.

zach1288 said:
Also doesn't calcium chloride lower the PH? Why do I need to lower it further with the acidulated malt?
Click to expand...

Yes it does but not very much relative to the amount the acid in the sauermalz does. That's why you need both.
 
zach1288 said:
So for my sparge water I can use straight distilled water?
Click to expand...
Yes you can but you probably should add the calcium chloride.

zach1288 said:
Also I'm a little confused about the baseline. Let's say I wanted to make a british ale. So I add calcium chloride, gypsum and do I add the 2% acid malt from the baseline?
Click to expand...

For British beers you deviate from the baseline by adding gypsum in addition to or in place of some of the calcium chloride.

A careful reading of the Primer should make it clear that it represents a starting point and that you will need to adjust relative levels of chloride and sulfate for your personal taste.
 
zach1288 said:
My tap water is pretty bad so I want to try using distilled water. I'm going to brew the Centennial Blonde recipe on this website, so it's pretty light.

If i'm using Beersmith it's telling me to mash in with 2.81 gallons of water and batch sparge with 5.76 gallons. So how much Calcium Chloride do I add to the mash? Also do I need to add any acidulated malt?

Thanks,
Zach
Click to expand...

The amount of additive you use depends on your grain bill. You want a mash ph of between 5.2 and 5.6. Darker grains are more acidic. I use something called EZ water calc. It's an excel file that let's you enter your grain bill and adjust water ratio and additive amounts until you hit your target ph. It will also tell you how your chloride to sulfate ratio will effect your final flavor (bitter, malty, or balanced). I've found it to be very accurate at predicting mash ph and my efficiency is usually in the 90's. Good luck.
 
steve1202 said:
It will also tell you how your chloride to sulfate ratio will effect your final flavor (bitter, malty, or balanced).
Click to expand...

It won't do that because this is controlled by hop cultivar selection, grain bill choices, and hopping schedules. Sulfate has an effect on how rought/harsh/dry hops perception is and chloride enhances body, sweetness and roundness. That the ratio is a control parameter is a misconception that stubbornly refuses to go away.

I do malty beers, balanced beers and hoppy beers all with the same chloride to sulfate ratio: ∞
 
Just got my first water report - can anybody chime in on this? It seems like hard water, and I wanted to brew a light Kolsch, so not sure I have the right stuff here. ANY advice is helpful, thanks!!!


Calcium 59
Magnesium 15
Sodium 10
Chloride 24
Sulfate 24
Alkalinity (CaCO3 ppm) 163
 
As this is the Primer thread the appropriate comment here would be that it needs to be diluted with RO water to the point where it meets the requirements in #1 and then supplemented with minerals as suggested in that post (for a Kölsch half the recommended baseline CaCL2 addition would actually be better).
 
ive been using tap water, getting some tannin issues, and suspect ph is the problem. if i use 100% RO water and add 1 tsp of calcium chloride will this be sufficient to regulate ph and eliminate any issues? basically get a better beer? or should i blend some RO water with tap water (ex. 70/30)? FYI my tap water tastes fine.
 
zodiak3000 said:
ive been using tap water, getting some tannin issues, and suspect ph is the problem. if i use 100% RO water and add 1 tsp of calcium chloride will this be sufficient to regulate ph and eliminate any issues? basically get a better beer? or should i blend some RO water with tap water (ex. 70/30)? FYI my tap water tastes fine.
Click to expand...

You're more likely to have a better pH with the RO and CaCL, but you may need some alkalinity (for darker beers) or some acid (for lighter beers). Anyways, there's no way we can tell you if 70/30 would be good as we don't know what your water profile is.
 
afr0byte said:
You're more likely to have a better pH with the RO and CaCL, but you may need some alkalinity (for darker beers) or some acid (for lighter beers). Anyways, there's no way we can tell you if 70/30 would be good as we don't know what your water profile is.
Click to expand...

here is my water report. this is all new, not sure how to treat. all i know is im getting some tannin astringent flavors that i think are a result of high mash ph and high alkalinity.

Alkalinity as CaCO3 (ppm) 110
Calcium (ppm) 21
Magnesium (ppm) 15
pH 8.0
Radon (pCi/L) 198
Silica (ppm) 83
Sodium (ppm) 27
Total Hardness as CaCO3 (ppm) 111
 
As this is the Primer thread the relevant advice would be to dilute with RO until the alkalinity is below about 30 (i.e. 4:1) and then follow the recommendations in Post #1. The astringency could be caused by sulfate/hops so you should find out what the sulfate is. The can be done at modest expense by sending a sample off to Ward labs. You will also want to know the chloride level because doing the dilution is only one approach - the Primer approach. The Ward Labs report will tell you that too.

With respect to a source of RO water: one approach to that is to install and RO system in your brewery. By I note that your silica is quite high. This can gum up RO membranes and they may, therefore, have shorter life in your installation than in others. The supplier I got my system from expressed great concern at my silica level of 28 mg/L which is at the upper limit of the expected range. You are more than 3 times that. I have never had problems with short membrane life but at the levels you are running it might be of concern.
 
ajdelange said:
As this is the Primer thread the relevant advice would be to dilute with RO until the alkalinity is below about 30 (i.e. 4:1) and then follow the recommendations in Post #1. The astringency could be caused by sulfate/hops so you should find out what the sulfate is. The can be done at modest expense by sending a sample off to Ward labs. You will also want to know the chloride level because doing the dilution is only one approach - the Primer approach. The Ward Labs report will tell you that too.

With respect to a source of RO water: one approach to that is to install and RO system in your brewery. By I note that your silica is quite high. This can gum up RO membranes and they may, therefore, have shorter life in your installation than in others. The supplier I got my system from expressed great concern at my silica level of 28 mg/L which is at the upper limit of the expected range. You are more than 3 times that. I have never had problems with short membrane life but at the levels you are running it might be of concern.
Click to expand...

thanks for the advice. how and when do you add calcium chloride? just split 1 tsp between the strike and sparge water and mix it up?
 
I don't process mash water separately from sparge water - there is often no need to do this especially when you have effectively removed most of the alkalinity (by dilution with RO). So just draw the entire volume of water needed for both mash and sparge, add 1 tsp CaCl peer 5 gallons and proceed.
 
ajdelange said:
I don't process mash water separately from sparge water - there is often no need to do this especially when you have effectively removed most of the alkalinity (by dilution with RO). So just draw the entire volume of water needed for both mash and sparge, add 1 tsp CaCl peer 5 gallons and proceed.
Click to expand...

ok, just to clarify is it 1 tsp for the finished product of 5 gallon batch or 1 tsp per 5 gallons of water? for a 5 gallon batch i usually start with around 9 gallons of water, which would equal almost 2 tsp if this is the case. im assuming what your saying is i can just add 1 tsp to the HLT no matter how much water for a 5 gallon batch, correct?
 
No, it's 1 tsp for each 5 gallons of water treated. But bear in mind that it is a starting point guideline: not a hard and fast rule. If you want to use half a tsp or a tsp and a half per 5 gallons that's OK as long as you experiment with other values in subsequent brews to find the level that does the best for you.
 
ajdelange said:
No, it's 1 tsp for each 5 gallons of water treated. But bear in mind that it is a starting point guideline: not a hard and fast rule. If you want to use half a tsp or a tsp and a half per 5 gallons that's OK as long as you experiment with other values in subsequent brews to find the level that does the best for you.
Click to expand...

cool thanks
 
brewing tomorrow and just want to clarify my measurements of calcium chloride based off the primer. 1 tsp per 5 gallons of water. 5 grams in each tsp = 1 gram per gallon of water. i will be using roughly 9 gallons of water, so 9 grams needed? i will be using 100% RO water.
 
zodiak3000 said:
brewing tomorrow and just want to clarify my measurements of calcium chloride based off the primer. 1 tsp per 5 gallons of water. 5 grams in each tsp = 1 gram per gallon of water. i will be using roughly 9 gallons of water, so 9 grams needed? i will be using 100% RO water.
Click to expand...

It's more like 3.4 grams per level teaspoon (for CaCl) according to Palmer.
 
TobyG said:
It's more like 3.4 grams per level teaspoon (for CaCl) according to Palmer.
Click to expand...

The exact amount does not matter. As AJ says, its not a hard and fast rule anyhow. The brewer would be advised to use a consistent unit of measure in his brewery (whether its grams, teaspoons, ounces, etc.) and make note of the changes made in the amount of salts used to satisfy his taste.
 
I'd much prefer that people work with weight but not every brewer owns a scale though he should an inexpensive student triple beam balances are still available though electronic scales are also now available at reasonable price. I've noticed that lots of brewers like to shoot and so a reloading scale, if you have one and can convert grains to grams is a possibility.

The weight per tsp is a pretty rough measurement and depends on the form (powder or prill) and, if powder, how 'fluffy'. 5 grams/tsp is fairly close for the prill form.
 
jmf143 said:
The exact amount does not matter. As AJ says, its not a hard and fast rule anyhow. The brewer would be advised to use a consistent unit of measure in his brewery (whether its grams, teaspoons, ounces, etc.) and make note of the changes made in the amount of salts used to satisfy his taste.
Click to expand...
I agree it doesn't matter to an extent. Was just trying to help since my own measurements are fairly consistent with Palmer's table, so I tend to measure by weight and typically treat 15 gallons of water with 10g CaCl. It just conjured an image of a friend inadvertently overdoing the epsom and having an overly salty batch.
 
I'll amplify my answer and state that I prefer grams as that is also used in the 3 popular water chemistry models. Electronic digital scales are cheap and accurate enough for my brewery. You can check your scale by measuring the weight of a nickel coin - they are 5 grams.
 
just a heads up to those buying RO water in bulk, my last 15 gallons from walmart were no good. wondered why my mash ph was so out of whack on my last batch, and why my starsan solution turned cloudy instantly. brought a sample of the water to work to test it, and conductivity was sky high.
 
ajdelange said:
Just a reminder that shirt pocked 'pen' type TDS testers are pretty inexpensive.
Click to expand...

Ordering one tonight. Thinking about picking up a small RO system, but not sure if its really worth it vs just buying distilled by the gallon.
 
jimyson said:
I have been looking around at systems and for the money and portability, I think this may be the winner.

http://www.airwaterice.com/product/1MM/RO-MIGHTY-MITE-SYSTEM-50GPD.html
Click to expand...

I strongly recommend against a system using the small canister filters. They do not last very long. Look for a 3 or 4 stage system with the more standard 10-inch filter canisters. You should be able to find one of those for about the same price. As long as all the equipment is mounted to a single plate, its as portable and almost as small as the system shown above. Getting a system with a Filmtec membrane is a good idea.

I also recommend getting a system that has an auto-shutoff valve. That way you can run the RO water into an open tank or tub and use a float valve to shut off the flow when the tank is full. Having a large supply of water waiting on you is far better than you waiting on the system to supply you with RO water.
 
FWIW the length of time the membrane lasts depends largely on the volume and the nature of the water being fed. If it is hard it should be softened. I've had a couple of those cheapie systems and used one for well over 5 years before giving it away, still fully functional, to another home brewer who, while he doesn't brew that much is still using it AFAIK. The other I used less than five years before giving it away fully functional. If you only use the thing for brewing water and only run a couple of hundred gallons through it per year it should last a good long time. They indicate that the membrane should last 3 - 5 years and that the pre filters are good for 900 gal. Now I don't know whether that means 900 gal total input or 900 gal produced as the recovery for these units is set very low so that you can get by without softening the feed water first. At this price, how can you go wrong unless the system is a real POS? It does use Filmtec membranes and delivers 1 - 2 gph so you can collect enough for a modest size brew in a few hours.

This is intended to be a quasi potable budget system and if that is what you are looking for I'd give it a shot. If you want something fancier then pressure tanks fed from atmospheric tanks with float switches can be cobbled up for sure. I have two sets of plumbing in my brewery: RO and well and it's really nice to be able to just grab one hose or the other or open one valve or the other to fill the HLT but for a simple system like this one it should suffice to hook it up to your laundry sink (or wherever), drape the output line into your HLT and walk away for a few hours.
 
Hi AJ,

Great information in this thread. Here's my water profile, would it be any point for me to get an RO filter or can I basically treat it like it's already RO'd?

pH 7,57
Conductivity 10,5 mS/m
Alkalinity 0,651 mmol/l
Hardness 2,66 odH

CaCO3: 0,651 * 50 = 32,55 ppm
Calsium 18,20 mg/L
Clorid 8,03 mg/L
Magnesium 0,47 mg/L
Natrium 2,10 mg/L
Sulfate 4,81 mg/L

Is my calculation Alkalinity --> CaCO3 correct?

Thanks!
 
Wow...I'm listening to the BN Brew Strong podcast on partigyle brewing recorded live at NHC and John Palmer just endorsed the use of 5-stars 5.2 stabilizer. Is this a new improved 5.2 stabilizer? Is he drunk? Have I wasted countless hours and batches following the sound advice in this thread?
 

Similar threads

K
Bru'n water sparge acid and kettle hardness calculations
Replies
15
Views
1K
VikeMan
VikeMan
3
Water Report Question
Replies
4
Views
743
CascadesBrewer
CascadesBrewer
N
Is my tap water usesless for brewing?
Replies
22
Views
2K
CascadesBrewer
CascadesBrewer
Zippy123
Reality check on Water Chemistry
Replies
27
Views
2K
WortMonger
WortMonger
C
Artesian well suitability
Replies
3
Views
593
mabrungard
mabrungard
BrewSwag 300

Latest posts

Back
Top