jetgemini
Member
I am soon starting up my old hobby/obsessive wine making and I am going to get every source of bottles I can get including asking friends neighbors and local bars to save me their empties. We are going to sterilize them so why not?
Pulling bottles from your neighbor's recycle bin - thrifty or across the line?
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Epimetheus
Well-Known Member
Beer bottle elves!
Even better than the ones that sew buttons back on.Like: "I want to soak them for days, scrub off the labels, sterilize them, spend all day boiling water in the back yard, and refill them with spoiling grain"? Yep, there would not be any doubt my neighbor is a nut job.
We have people around here who drive around and grab all of the aluminum cans. Seems the town depends on the value of the recyclables to defray the cost of picking it up. Most of the local towns have passed ordinances making it illegal to take materials from the recycling once it's at the curb. I don't know how they enforce it, but the guy who used to come take my aluminum doesn't come around anymore.
tennesseean_87
Well-Known Member
I go through stuff on the street all the time. If it's on the street, it's fair game. I got a ton of champagne bottles the first recycling day after new year's eve, including a magnum! They're cappable if you have the right bell and caps, and a few even take standard sized crown caps. I walked around a lot and picked up all the champagne bottles I saw, since I have plenty of beer bottles, but I've grabbed those before, too.
Patro
Well-Known Member
I know a guy who gets his bottles from the recycling dumpster at the county dump. Dump bottles weird me out a little bit. I just imagine bottles with chewed off fingernails, or cigarette butts in them. But I guess glass is easy to sanitize so I probably shouldn't care.
This is not universally true. In LA you can't just take stuff off the street, legally speaking.
peterlonz
Well-Known Member
Rummaging through someones trash is disrespectful, if you are seen it's likely to become awkward.
So best avoided; just ask in an appropriate way.
If you think the person may be embarassed by the quantity of bottles just ask occasionally. I think almost every home brewer at some stage has salvaged bottles & often in situations where asking was just not possible.
So best avoided; just ask in an appropriate way.
If you think the person may be embarassed by the quantity of bottles just ask occasionally. I think almost every home brewer at some stage has salvaged bottles & often in situations where asking was just not possible.
EineProsit
Well-Known Member
If he were ashamed of his alcoholism he'd be throwing his empties into the trash instead of the recycle bin.
Ask the guy if you may have them.
That's not true of recycle material in many places. Since a company contracts with a municipality to recycle items, they expect to receive a profit from the activity. Once a recycle bin is placed for pickup the material belongs to the recycle company and it is technically theft to remove the contents of the bin. There have been a couple of articles in newspapers about theft of aluminum cans in college towns.
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Obviously asking is the right thing to do. Although, for practicality, how many more bottles do you need? Sounds like you should have plenty by now.
Varmintman
Well-Known Member
Ignoring the legal aspects of taking them I would have to say if you have to ask if it is right then it most likely is not. Seems like you are trying to justify actions you feel are wrong.
Go meet your neighbor. Seems like a nice thing to do and who knows you might end up with a friend.
Go meet your neighbor. Seems like a nice thing to do and who knows you might end up with a friend.
Oldskooler
Supporting member
Wear black and do it on moonless nights
zeg
Well-Known Member
As others have posted, in many places this is illegal. Most places it's probably not likely to get you in trouble, but in LA (like described in the linked article), there were serious scavenger problems, including territorial fighting. The laws about trash aren't simple.
Even if it's legal where you are, rooting through other people's trash is not a good idea. Like so many things, if you're not sure if it's ok, just ask. If it was ok, they'll say yes. If not, you've avoided unnecessary conflict. Let's all do our part not to encourage a poor reputation for homebrewers.
Even if it's legal where you are, rooting through other people's trash is not a good idea. Like so many things, if you're not sure if it's ok, just ask. If it was ok, they'll say yes. If not, you've avoided unnecessary conflict. Let's all do our part not to encourage a poor reputation for homebrewers.
clevernonsense
Member
In my state, beer bottles have a deposit, so often people stroll through the neighborhood grabbing deposit-able bottles from everyone's bins. We almost never dispose of deposit-able bottles now (sodastream + homebrewing = very few bottles) but the few I do I always leave in a separate bag for easy retrieval. Seems neighborly to me, even when it's a stranger.
So anyhow, I see absolutely nothing wrong with taking from the bin, even without asking (so long as it's curbside). Reuse > Recycle.
So anyhow, I see absolutely nothing wrong with taking from the bin, even without asking (so long as it's curbside). Reuse > Recycle.
I suggest you ask for it, since you risk not knowing if he used some of them for other purpose than wine drinking. For example, i ask my friends to save empty bottlesm, that way i trade a bunch of empty bottle (where i live, there are no brewing suppliers to buy them) for the pleasure of tasting some good homebrew
woknblues
Well-Known Member
To those worried about "illegal". How many of us exceed 100 gallons per year brewed? I have 25 gallons fermenting by the end of January so far... "illegal" doesn't mean immoral.
I see OP trying to avert his neighbor's uncomfortable acknowledgement of alcoholism as paramount in terms of morality, trumping "he didn't ask if he could take his trash". His neighbor is throwing away stuff that will need to be recycled, costing more money and effort than to simply put the items to good use again.
As long as it is curbside, I couldn't care less if someone was in my bin pulling out empties. In fact, I would be pleased.
I see OP trying to avert his neighbor's uncomfortable acknowledgement of alcoholism as paramount in terms of morality, trumping "he didn't ask if he could take his trash". His neighbor is throwing away stuff that will need to be recycled, costing more money and effort than to simply put the items to good use again.
As long as it is curbside, I couldn't care less if someone was in my bin pulling out empties. In fact, I would be pleased.
Varmintman
Well-Known Member
I find it interesting that 5 pages have been written concerning everything from the legality to morality of taking something that does not belong to you. Does this indicate the fall of western civilization? No not hardly but it does show just how hard people will try to vindicate unethical behavior.
The solution is very simple. Talk to the guy. If he is like many here and does not want them then he will give them to you. If on the other hand he wants the city municipality to have them he will tell you so. In either case the bottles do not belong to you to take at your leisure.
What is next raiding the bags of food set out for the boy scout food drive
The solution is very simple. Talk to the guy. If he is like many here and does not want them then he will give them to you. If on the other hand he wants the city municipality to have them he will tell you so. In either case the bottles do not belong to you to take at your leisure.
What is next raiding the bags of food set out for the boy scout food drive
zeg
Well-Known Member
Probably a small fraction would be my guess. Certainly if I did, I wouldn't be bragging about it on a public forum: illegal may not mean immoral, but it certainly doesn't make it wise to advertise your activity.
So what's your point? Some people break laws, therefore don't bother worrying about whether an action is moral? That's what you're arguing, and it is nonsense.
Great! Not everyone agrees.
You're on to something in the first part there, but let's not go nuts! Be a good neighbor. Demand a bit less than you think you're entitled to and offer a bit more than you think you are bound to. The neighbor probably doesn't care, but why impose on him the trouble of complaining if he doesn't?
Still, this isn't like stealing food---it is, after all, taking something that has been discarded. Many people don't realize that this might be illegal, and may not realize that the recycling company makes money that subsidizes their operations from bottle deposits or the higher value of certain recyclables. Most people who would take bottles don't mean to take something from someone else, but the same can't be said when the item is of obvious value.
It's not as easy as "taking something that doesn't belong to you". If it's not illegal, and the owner has given up ownership, they are there for the taking. And taking a reusing would be a more environmentally friendly way of using the bottles than recycling, which takes more energy to reprocess. Not every community values empty wine bottles.
CGVT
Senior Member
Exactly.
In some places, it is illegal to take the recyclables, I think that in most it is not. Obviously that would influence a person's opinion on the issue.
Where I live, and in all of the many places that I have lived, trash or recyclables on the curb were free game and I never had an issue with trash being scattered by people picking through my stuff. I don't see taking wine bottles out of the trash as stealing by any means. It is a much more cost effective and environmentally friendly way of reusing trash.
If you live in a community where it is illegal to take things from the trash bins or recycle bins, obviously that is different.
Varmintman
Well-Known Member
Just to play devils advocate and forgive me because we do not have curbside recycling, nor do I even have a curb or trash pickup. The way I see it someone saw a value in the bottles and went to the expense of making recycling bins. The owner transferred the ownership of the bottles to the people who are recycling them and have spent money to do so. The OP saw value in the bottles as well and is willing to take them from the people who spent time and money to recycle them ethically.
I would not argue the legality of it because I do not know the legality of it. But I do know what is ethical and moral to me and what I would do. If I wanted the bottles I would talk to the guy and offer him a trade of wine or money for his bottles.
And since the OP saw a value to the bottles what is wrong with him seeing value to the boyscout food drive bags and taking them. The person donating the food gave up ownership to another group just like in the case of the bottles.
Just because a action is legal does not mean it is ethical or moral. I choose to hold myself to a higher moral code and ethics I guess than many do. But doing that makes my life a simpler life with out the worry of conflict over a few bottles that most likely would be given freely any way.
CGVT
Senior Member
Just as not worrying about someone taking something that I no longer have use for out of my trash make my life simpler...
Really? Quite a stretch and in no way comparable
zeg
Well-Known Member
I think the only firm conclusion is that the ethics are complicated (even if not of extremely high importance to the survival of life as we know it...). These things don't have a lot of value, but they do have some, and the guy throwing them out may not want you rooting through his trash.
Don't make it more than it is, just ask if you're not sure he doesn't mind. He might even let you give him a box that he can put them in so you don't have to pick through his other trash.
Don't make it more than it is, just ask if you're not sure he doesn't mind. He might even let you give him a box that he can put them in so you don't have to pick through his other trash.
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I've actually had to tell my friends/neighbors to STOP giving me bottles because I've ran out of space.
Well, as I said earlier, I would still ask the guy and not worry about his alcoholism.
I can't speak for those who get paid to recycle. That would be awesome here. Nope, we have to recycle ourselves.
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When bottles are put into the recycle bin, it shows intent to give ownership of the bottles to the recycling company. It is raw materials that are now the property of the recycling company, though I'm using the term 'raw materials' idiosyncratically, since bottles are usually 'finished materials', except in teh case of converting them back to what is typically considered 'raw materials'). The bottom line is that it has value. It's a pretty clean cut case. Perhaps if the bottles were not in any kind of 'package', then you could argue it would not be illegal. You aren't stealing from your neighbor, you're stealing from the recycling company.
Actually the recycling company doesn't come around in Randian virtue to each and every house making a small profit for each bottle they pick up. The fact that they come around at all is a government artifact in the natural process of supply & demand. They only come around because my (and maybe your) tax dollars subsidize them to do so. Don't believe me, Ask the EPA:
So my tax dollars (maybe yours too) would be spent whether the bottles were recovered or not. The fact that bottles are actually in the bins when the recycling company comes around is just a bonus for them. I think that the portion of my paycheck volunteered to them without my consent to pay for the service entitles me to some paltry portion of the spoils, namely my neighbor's bottles. Why does the recycling company have more right to them than I do?
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There is the value. Your ideas about who should have rights to the bottles is, quite frankly, irrelevant. Try and tell that to the judge (or the guy you're paying the citation to). The fact is you DON'T have the right because it's not yours.
For example, when you own a stock in a company, you don't own x amount of computers or x amount of chairs. This is Business law 101.
Local laws almost all state that it's illegal to take from recycling bins but not trash cans. I see this as a violation of precedent, and worse, a conflict of interest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Greenwood
I seems that the government acknowledges that trash left at the curb for collection is fair game for government seizure without warrant, which implies (to me, anyway) it doesn't belong to anybody. If that applies to the owner of the domicile then it must apply equally to the recycling company (government).
They can't have their cake and eat it too. They can't say it's OK for them to rifle through your (er.. I mean, nobody's) things at the curb and take whatever they want, but you can't rifle through their (oh yeah, nobody's) things at the curb and take whatever you want. That's unconstitutional. I've never taken business law 101. Do you think I have a case here?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_v._Greenwood
I seems that the government acknowledges that trash left at the curb for collection is fair game for government seizure without warrant, which implies (to me, anyway) it doesn't belong to anybody. If that applies to the owner of the domicile then it must apply equally to the recycling company (government).
They can't have their cake and eat it too. They can't say it's OK for them to rifle through your (er.. I mean, nobody's) things at the curb and take whatever they want, but you can't rifle through their (oh yeah, nobody's) things at the curb and take whatever you want. That's unconstitutional. I've never taken business law 101. Do you think I have a case here?
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The reason they can have their cake and eat it too, I imagine, is because the stuff in the garbage or the recycling is not the 'person being investigated's' anymore, it belongs to the county, and the county has no problem allowing the authorities to go through the garbage. It isn't 'nobody's'.
Edit: After reading the wiki article, it looks like it was legal for the police because he had 'no expectation of privacy', because it was 'accessible' to others. It doesn't say that there is no ownership. The police officer asked the garbage collector for the bag, who was the expected recipient of said garbage, and the collector complied.
woknblues
Well-Known Member
Not a small fraction at all, I am sure. Even if it was a small fraction I don't feel that makes any difference in terms of legality, which is why I made the point that illegality is a poor stance on this issue. Illegality is black and white. You can't be "sortof pregnant" Also, nobody is bragging about anything.
The point is that because the action is "illegal", yet not enforced, and arguably not immoral, we can only fall back on morality since he isn't going to jail, right? To which I believe the OP has done diligence in determining what is more harmful to the guy with the bottles. His intent is to take what is discarded without doing harm to the person disposing of the trash.
>Great! Not everyone agrees.
evidently
Vigo_Carpathian
Well-Known Member
What if your neighbor has herpes? Just saying
benbradford
Well-Known Member
At 3 bottles a day the op now has 60 more bottles than the original 50... 110 bottles is a lot...
I thought i drank a lot, but 3 bottles of wine a day is pretty huge. He doesn't have a roommate or wife or something? Me and my wife could pretty easy go through 10-15 bottles a week.
Here in Denver, there a tons of junkers(I mean recycling fairies) moving through alleys collecting things. I find it amusing how fast something dissapears from my back alley after i leave it out. I will be testing a stainless steel sink later today!
I thought i drank a lot, but 3 bottles of wine a day is pretty huge. He doesn't have a roommate or wife or something? Me and my wife could pretty easy go through 10-15 bottles a week.
Here in Denver, there a tons of junkers(I mean recycling fairies) moving through alleys collecting things. I find it amusing how fast something dissapears from my back alley after i leave it out. I will be testing a stainless steel sink later today!
Are you so sure? He's an alcoholic and probably bombed when he throws away his bottles. I doubt he's aware that his bottles are being taken by anyone other than the garbage man.
stinkmuis
Well-Known Member
well you are a brewer, he is an alcoholic.. It seems that it is very easy to work out a gentleman's agreement together
well you are a brewer, he is an alcoholic.. It seems that it is very easy to work out a gentleman's agreement together
Truth in all its simplicity. He has what you want and you have what he needs.
Bigger issue for me isn't the snaking his bottles but it surprises me he doesn't know you brew. I mean if he's got that many empties he seems like a fan of beer in general. Is he annoying or something?
Also if you talked to him he'd probably have saved them for you.
Also if you talked to him he'd probably have saved them for you.
Pretend to be a raccoon.
sawbossFogg
Well-Known Member
Zuljin said:
That's bad advice, like me he may like to shoot raccoons as a jovial pastime, especially while drinking.
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