How much do you worry about pH?

I'm brand new to AG and my first batch will be as low tech and simple (read: lazy and easy for my poor mind to comprehend) as possible.

I think I have a pretty good idea of what I need to do.

From what I understand, your pH during mash should be around 5.2. I don't see a lot of discussion here about playing with pH though - is it because people don't worry about it? ... or because it absolutely must be done and so is taken for granted?

My municipal water runs around pH 8 last I checked, and is well buffered (flows from the "chalky rockies" to my tap...) .... this seems like a recipe for a headache if I try to alter it.

Thanks,
Keegan

I don't worry at all. I just dump some 5-Star pH Stabilizer into my mash and sparge water. Sets it to 5.2 with no headache. I highly recommend it.

^^+1 on 5.2 stabilizer

i've only done some PM's so i havent worried about it. When I switch to AG, i'll be using the 5.2 stabilizer mentioned above.

AG for 2 years now and have never bothered. I start with a Ph of 7 and I think the Malt brings it down within range. My beers have won awards, so I guess its just a matter of preference. I wouldn't worry about it now and try and get through a brew sess without hangups first. Good Luck and happy brewing.

what does the stabilizer do? how does it know the initial ph to bring it down to five point two?

uglygoat said:

what does the stabilizer do? how does it know the initial ph to bring it down to five point two?

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What he said.

I've been all grain brewing for a couple years now and have never checked my pH. I know my water is moderately hard which is right for most styles, and through a little trial and error, and alot of tasting I've got the sparge down where extracting tanins aren't a problem.

Magic.

Seriously though, there's A TON of chemistry behind it. You have to have a solid grasp at the molecular level of how pH works, and how buffers like Alkalinity and other buffering salts play a role in pH.

In very simple terms, the malted grain itself is going to try to create an acidic pH darn close to 5.2 all on its own.

the pH 5.2 is formulated to help the malt get down there, but not really go much lower.

if you added pH 5.2 to plain water, with no malt, it shouldn't drop the pH down to 5.2, though it would lower a bit.

Be careful with the 5.2 though. Too much can lead to a mineral flavor in the beer. Some people use half the recommended amount.

uglygoat said:

what does the stabilizer do? how does it know the initial ph to bring it down to five point two?

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The same way a thermos knows how to keep coffee hot, but milk cold.

Well, not exactly, but awfully close. Malkore's got it right.
I worry about pH enough to use 5.2 stabilizer, but not enough to test my mash pH.

But if you're not testing your pH, how do you know that you need 5.2?

The short answer is, I don't. However, given the good experiences others have had with stabilizer, I figure that for the price (way less than $1.00 / 5 gal), the extra insurance of having that buffering power vs. the drawbacks (none that I know of), it's worthwhile to me.

Evan! said:

I don't worry at all. I just dump some 5-Star pH Stabilizer into my mash and sparge water.

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I used to...then I read an interview in which Charlie Talley recommends against using it in the sparge water. Now I use just enough for my strike water, and add it directly to the mash.

I used to use pH 5.2, had great efficency but lots of haze, turns out my water is very soft, Calcium about 20 mg/L by adding the pH 5.2 i was hitting the right pH but the chelatory effect of the 5.2 was robbing me of Ca and leading to the hazes (required for good protein precipation and yeast clearing). For my particular water its better to ditch the ph 5.2 and instead supplement it with either CaCl or Ca-sulphate depending on the style, the extra calcium brings down the pH (phytase reaction) and also accentuates either the hop or malt flavours depending on the Ca-sulphate and CaCl ratio respectively.

Just pointing out that like most one size fits all things, it isn't

delboy said:

I used to use pH 5.2, had great efficency but lots of haze, turns out my water is very soft, Calcium about 20 mg/L by adding the pH 5.2 i was hitting the right pH but the chelatory effect of the 5.2 was robbing me of Ca and leading to the hazes (required for good protein precipation and yeast clearing). For my particular water its better to ditch the ph 5.2 and instead supplement it with either CaCl or Ca-sulphate depending on the style, the extra calcium brings down the pH (phytase reaction) and also accentuates either the hop or malt flavours depending on the Ca-sulphate and CaCl ratio respectively.

Just pointing out that like most one size fits all things, it isn't

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Is it? Could it be? The one and only Delboy makes an appearance?

Where the hell ya been mate?

I've been AG brewing with the softened water in my apartment building and I don't worry about the pH. I did get some 5.2 at some point and it didn't seem to make any difference whatsoever so I kinda stopped using it. I've thought about getting some test strips to test my water but I'm not in a hurry, my beer tastes great.

As someone mentioned, get the process down before you worry about the minor details. Unless your water is thick enough to walk on, your mash will convert and it will taste great.

I use 5.2 stabilizer in all my beers except stouts and porters. Works great. Never a metallic taste. I've only bought one container of the stuff, it lasts forever. I use about 3/4 TBSP for each 5 gallons; mix it straight into the grain before adding water in the mash.

I started using it at my old residence where I had REALLY soft water; we're talking Pilsen-soft. I HAD to add Ca++ and 5.2 in order to get my efficiencies above 70%

BierMuncher said:

Is it? Could it be? The one and only Delboy makes an appearance?

Where the hell ya been mate?

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Been busy making hazy beers, think i've got it licked now though, organising my wedding at the moment so ive been reading and lurking lately, decided it was time to stick my oar back in though

I'm on my 5th AG brew. Since changing over to 5.2 to adjust my pH, my efficency has shot up into the high 80's.

I've done about 8 AG brews and I haven't worried about either pH or water chemistry. Maybe it's just dumb luck on my part, but my beers are coming out great. Why worry?

devils4ever said:

I've done about 8 AG brews and I haven't worried about either pH or water chemistry. Maybe it's just dumb luck on my part, but my beers are coming out great. Why worry?

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You're quite right not to worry. Never worry about your beer. I take it a step further, and make a concerted effort to not worry about ANYTHING. Worry and stress, kills: beer, and people too.

I'm just trying to maximize efficiency, by maintaining the ideal pH in my mash. But I'm certainly not worrying about it. Just part of the never ending evolution of my brewing methods, I'm always striving to improve. For me it's where a lot of the fun lies.

Just from reading around, I when I started with AG brewing, I started with a pH buffer. Even with using a far less than ideal sparging setup made from a bottling bucket, I have been consistently getting mid to high 70's. I have no doubt with a proper setup, it would jump into the low to mid 80's. My beer comes out just fine, so I will continue to use it. If it works, no use trying to fix. Although I will be upgrading my MLT in the near future.

Interestingly enough, I am a chemist. I could go into far more detail than anyone really cares to know about buffers. It has nothing to do with how it actually works, but it might be easiest to think of it as a chemical sponge. Sucking up extra acidic and basic ions to keep the pH relatively constant.

BlindLemonLars said:

You're quite right not to worry. Never worry about your beer. I take it a step further, and make a concerted effort to not worry about ANYTHING. Worry, and stress, kills...beer, and people too.

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Word!:rockin:

mrkeeg said:

My municipal water runs around pH 8 last I checked, and is well buffered (flows from the "chalky rockies" to my tap...) .... this seems like a recipe for a headache if I try to alter it.

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With a pH of 8 I wouldn't try to brew without adjusting the pH. Most folks are lucky and have a neutral pH so they don't need to worry. But like you, mine's alkaline. My beers were cloudy and my efficiency was terrible until I started adjusting the pH.

+1 for 5.2 Stabilizer. A tablespoon in the mash and have no worries. It solved my problems.

- Eric

I used 5.2 for a while, but like many I did'nt know what my ph was to begin with. I got a water report and that gave me a starting point. My water is also high (8.5ph). With the help of my new ph meter, I have been able to track the results of using 5.2 stabalizer. It basically has little or no effect in water, the salts cannot dissolve and end up at the bottom of your HLT. Adding them directly to the mash does bring the ph down, but not far enough.

So much more to water than just ph, and when you start messing with water it can get very dicey! I have found that by adding lactic acid to my sparge water and gypsum to my mash, I have been able to achieve a true 5.2ph in the mash and then I am not using sparge water of 8.5ph, but somewhere close to 6ph. which allows me to keep the ph down.

What have I noticed? Well, my beers are cleaner, hops are brighter, attenuation is better, flavor is better! As BlindLemonLars said, "It is the evolution of our brewing methods, always striving to improve." and yes it adds excitement to brewing when you have your methods dialed in.

Eastside

I've never even taken a pH reading of my water. I'm sure that there are some benefits to using a stabilizer, but I've been able to make good beer without it.

I used 5.2 stabilizer for the first time last Saturday, and talk about some disgusting looking sparge water.....bleh I did about 3/4 TBLSP per 5 gallon like it said but the sparge water looked really cloudy and murky. I chose a blonde to test it out on so any differences will stick out more

Wort looked and tasted awesome though, so we'll see

I used to use the 5.2 product by now with the Help of John Palmers spreadsheet I dial in my PH and it has been spot on. I think you really need to start with Residual Alkalinity.

I don't worry about my pH...I just add a little gypsum to my strike and sparge water.