Stretching a Brewers Best Recipe to 6 gallons?

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CDGoin

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Have a 5 gal recipe and the equipment I could do 6..

Since with the Extract Kit you start with 2.5 gallons, and then add 2.5 to make 5 gallons.

Could you start with 3 gallons, and stretch it to 6 ? Maybe by adding some honey or other sugars to the batch to boost the fermentables to make up for the extra water..? Seems you could run the grains for a few extra minutes to get a little more out of them.

I also not a big fan of Hops so thinning the hops out across 3 gallons vs 2.5 would probably work for me, and soften the bite of the beer.

Not being cheap per se.. just wondering if anyone has tried it and had any luck. If so what did you do.
 
You will definitely make beer, but the kit was designed with a recipe in mind. You may get things out of balance. If you are ok with that, go for it. Experimenting is half the fun of brewing (the other half is drinking).

Personally, I wouldn't. But I am sure I do things that others wouldn't do. To each his own. Good luck with the brew, whether you alter the recipe or not.
 
Thanks.. I know I run the risk of

1) Too much tannins due to over soaking the grain (But heck I went all the way through the boil with my first batch, by accident.. and off flavors werent that bad.. )

2) It becomes to thin..

I'm going to look over the recipe and see what I might want to do .. probably stick the recipe this time. If its good I will play with it the second time.

May do the honey in the secondary just to bump the ABV.

Charles
 
Like I said, its up to you. You can force body by adding maltodextrine. Just a thought. Again, I would leave the recipe as is this time.
 
I couldn't help myself.. so I threw 2 lbs of honey in the boil...

Wow.. increased my OG a LOT ! Finally got it down to 1.062 at around 5.7 gal..

At 4.5 gal it was like 1.075 !

Since OG of the recipe was supposed to be 1.052.. I expect if FG is close to recipe to have a 7-8 ABV beer..

So can I expect for this to be a sweet high abv. Octoberfest..? Because thats what I was going for.

BTW hit all temps on the money.. Storage is at a perfect 54 degrees and will be lagering it.

Speaking of which can I lager in the primary or should I secondary as per the instructions..?
 
I believe the honey is very fermentable, so I would expect high ABV, but dry, not malty. Also may be a bit thin.
 
It is very fermentable :)

I am expecting a slight honey undertone to the octoberfest, and even though I ended up with 5.5 gallons, I also ended up with a bit over 3 gallons of wort.. as I had less boil off than expected, and being a new pot I over shot the water level a little.

That said the wort seems to have come out well, currently fermenting (started last night). The color of the beer is a nice deep amber.. I can't wait for it to be ready.. in 2 months.. UGH

So I don't have any worries about it being thin.. may have a lighter body though.
 
Well, I had it currently fermenting away in my garage, in an insulated storage room.. where the temps TEND to stay a stable 55 degree..


Day 1 - nada (normal) (Temp 55)

Day 2 - "is that fermenting yet..?" bubbles (Temp 55)

Day 3 - Definitely started fermenting (Temp 55)

Day 4-5 - Developed a nice Krausen (Fermenter temp rised to the high 50s - Room temp was 55)

That was until the last few days when temps outside got into the 60s-70s.. now the fermenter beer has gone from stable 55-58 to 61-67

Day 6 - Krausen started to get dirty on top with dark specks on it.. Temps started to rise outside.. (Fermenter got up to 61 - Room 59)

Day 7 - Krausen got a build up of yeast on top of the foam.. and the yeast is going bananas. Temps outside in the mid 60s now (Fermenter got up to 67 :eek: and room to 62 )

Day 8 - Finally cooling down outside.. and was able to try to get the room cooler with a fan.. etc.. yeast is still going strong.. Looking trough the fermenter and you can see the bubbles and yeast are swirling around like someone is stirring the damn thing. It's crazy ! The air lock is going nuts.. popping off every second or just a bit less. (Fermenter down to 61 room down to 56). The yeast developing on top of the Krausen is getting thick and heavy and weighing down the Krausen.

Is this a problem ? or will I just get a bit more attenuation and now that its cooler outside and I got the room back down into the 50s.. I should be good ? I mean just how "stable" do I need to be.. and am I fine ?

Here is what Brewers Best said about temps for this recipe

1) Move the fermenter to a cool, lager-specific, temperature-stable area (approx. 53º - 59ºF).

2) Alternatively the recipe notes: Brewer’s Best® recommends lagering this recipe to achieve the true lager character of
this beer style. However, if you are not properly equipped to lager your beer, the included yeast will perform well when fermented as an ale. When fermenting as an ale (between 64º - 72ºF) try to keep the beer on the cooler end
of the temperature range and allow for some additional time for the lager yeast to ferment down to the FG.

So that said.. I'm guessing a Ale yeast and not a Lager yeast was in the kit..?

Will this little burst of energy cause the beer to develop any sour or off flavors? or am I to expect this will be more a ale now and less a lager ?

I know I should RDWHA*C*B (No home brew to drink yet)

I am not a fan of sour ales.. I am hoping the sour notes I have now emanating from the airlock are just off gases and the beer doesn't come out sour or give me off flavors.. ? Just wondering if the initial fermentation (or should say the second stage of fermentation) at higher ale temps will cause that.

Should I still lager it no matter what ? I am planning on doing that.

What would the result of leaving it as is in the 50-60 ranges then cold crashing for bottling Vs going to a secondary and slow lagering in the fridge..?

Now if I were to find it sour during the hydrometer test, would adding a lb of honey to it during secondary help with that..? Would I get more fermentation during the secondary lagering..?

Thanks for all the help and any insight.
 
Got the temps back down to the high 50s. Its still going strong.. but decided to take a test.

SG is now at 1.030 a nice drop from 1.062, but got a good bit to go.. and its still going.

Its also clearing up really nice..

The hydro sampler was awesome.. ! A nice Marzen flavor, with a touch of a honey finish. Just what I was looking for.. can't wait for the final product.

Might deliberately raise its temp right before it goes into the secondary for lagering to get the yeast to annentuate some more since I know now the low 60s were nothing to freak out about.
 
Went to secondary today (FG 1.013) - FG was right in spec.

So doing the math.. since I added the 2lbs of honey I boosted the ABV from 5.5% to 6.75%

Anyway. I think the short warm spell I mentioned did a bit of bad things to the beer. Now I know it was only a hydrometer sampler.. but the sour notes that I have noticed from the air lock have not gone away and they showed up in the final test. Not over powering, but noticeable. Also when I went to clean the fermenter, I noticed the leftovers in the fermenter was also quite sour smelling.

That said, overall flavor is good, and the sour is in the back and not up front in your face.

Question, will the sourness soften as I lager it..?

Will the hops come out as it lagers or mellow.. ? ( I ask as there was a definite hit of that piney/IPA in the flavors and I am not a big fan of IPA)
 
It is very fermentable :)

I am expecting a slight honey undertone to the octoberfest, and even though I ended up with 5.5 gallons, I also ended up with a bit over 3 gallons of wort.. as I had less boil off than expected, and being a new pot I over shot the water level a little.

That said the wort seems to have come out well, currently fermenting (started last night). The color of the beer is a nice deep amber.. I can't wait for it to be ready.. in 2 months.. UGH

So I don't have any worries about it being thin.. may have a lighter body though.


The honey will be just about non existent in the beer.

You will have beer. Not sure if it'll be great beer.

Couple of things. The beer will dry out, so it won't have much of any body to it. So it will be a bit loose on flavor and watery since you over shot the volumes for the amount of grain and extract you added. Honey is 100% fermentable, and will leave next to nothing after the yeast get done with it.

The beer will be higher ABV if that was your goal. You will have it out of balance, so it will appear sweeter and boozy, probably with a alcoholic punch to it. The higher alcohol will add sweetness and will make the beer appear thinner as well, both you probably didn't want.

It sounds like from previous posts and this, that you might be better served to follow the recipes a bit better, unless you are happy with the beer you are making, then thats all that matters.
 
Also, lagering is just letting it sit at lager temps for an extended period of time. It allows the yeast to flocc out and the beer age cold.

Adding honey will not help change anything. You will do nothing other than allow what yeast is left, to ferment the honey out, and run the slight risk of infecting the batch.

You will probably be better off like I said, to follow directions on these kits, especially learning like you are. Changing the recipes up so wild, will always lead to problems early on. Trust me, I did the same thing with my 1st batch and didn't like it. Then I stopped it and learned to follow the directions and make better beer, until I brewed enough to start making my own recipes from scratch and all grain.
 
Yea, at this point I have realized I have jumped in with both feet, and sunk a bit in the mud.. :)

So.. I plan on taking this approach now that I have better equipment, and a will have a better place to work from (Cleaning the garage and adding a heater to the closet)

1) Learn from my experiences (Both batches cant be called "Mistakes" yet as they haven't come out of the bottles yet)

2) Figure out what I want to do for my first All-grain.. thinking another oktoberfest.

3) Then I will get the Brewers Best Extract kit that will match teh all-grain I PLAN on doing

4) Follow the recipe to the letter. This will give be a base line based on my Second batch of "Doctored" Oktoberfest and this one..

5) Then find a simple Oktoberfest/Marzen all grain recipe and do that..

6) Then a similar round of batches for a Milk Stout, or an Irish Red, etc..

At that point I should have a feel for the differences in results for extract and all-grain and can start working on new recipes.

I do have an ultimate goal now though, I want to malt my own barley, and use it in a simple recipe.

Main reason is I have a crazy idea, that may prove to be nothing.. or prove to be very unique. That is using Lentils in Beer.. I got the crazy idea, and have access to literally tons of Lentils

So I have to learn all the steps..

BTW your explanation is about exactly what it is coming out like.. a bit dry, with a nice sweetness, light body and with just a touch of tartness.

The 2 lbs of honey are already in the batch.. they went in at the boil. I knew the honey wouldnt do much for flavor especially given the kind of honey it was. It went in mainly to bump the ABV not for flavor.

Anyway, so far I really like what I have tasted coming out of the hydrometer tests.

My only home is the sour after flavor will come out with aging. As I have read a few others saying their young Marzens and Oktoberfests shows sour signs early that mellowed with age.

Knowing that is it JUST now going into Lagering, and has a few more weeks to age and then bottle condition.. My hope is that it will be really good.
 
Sounds like an okay plan, but no real reason to test extract v. all grain on the same recipe.

Both can be done great, or poorly, and will show the same signs. All grain in some peoples opinion, taste better, without the twang that cooked extract has. Some don't taste it. I can taste it and find that all grain taste better.

But more importantly, all grain lets YOU do what you want to do. Want a beer to have a bigger body, or less body? Want it to finish dry, or finish with some residual sweetness, then you can do that. Want to get it down really low in gravity, but still want some crazy body, with a nice head on it, it's easy to add the right grains and process to do so.

I'd HIGHLY suggest you get something that doesn't need to be lagered, unless you have a chest freezer/fridge that you have a controller on it to lager for extended periods of time.

I'd find something easy to go all grain will. Infact, since you don't even have a batch bottled yet, I'd pick something easy to do period. Doesn't have to be flavorless, but you should get an idea on your new gear, and a new process slowly. Otherwise you will be pissing money away on ingredients and time just trying to tweak recipes and make stuff up.

However, that said.. If that brings joy, and the beer you like, then have at it. I just hate to see someone make subpar beer that they aren't happy with, and someone who just tosses the kitchen sink in beer because it sounds good or better. I've ruined 2 batches because of that. I thought this and that sounded good, and took what was a good recipe and jacked it all up. Both ironically ended up being some of the more expensive batches I've done.
 
<snip> I'd HIGHLY suggest you get something that doesn't need to be lagered, unless you have a chest freezer/fridge that you have a controller on it to lager for extended periods of time.

Yep.. have a nice big frig in the garage.. that prior to be home brewing was know as the "Beer fridge" :) and have been using a IR Temp sensor to measure the temps in the fridge at the different positions on the dial.. and its seems fairly accurate.

I'd find something easy to go all grain will. Infact, since you don't even have a batch bottled yet, I'd pick something easy to do period. Doesn't have to be flavorless, but you should get an idea on your new gear, and a new process slowly. Otherwise you will be pissing money away on ingredients and time just trying to tweak recipes and make stuff up.

What would you recommend..? To me all the extract / partial mash kits seem about the same.

Obviously so "easy" I guess depends on is the process easy, or is the recipe is uncomplicated.

I can follow directions for the most part :) So I would assume "easy" would be a simple recipe that doesn't require a lot of different grains or something.

If it helps.. I prefer the maltier and sweeter beers.. not a fan of IPA or a lot of in your face hops.
 
Try a Porter, or an ESB. A Brown Ale, a Hefe, heck even a Blonde.

All of those are low hops, nice beers. Some maltier than others, but none of those styles are very hop forward.

I have a pretty simple Chocolate Oatmeal Porter recipe I made under my name that people like. It's not hoppy, it's pretty easy to make. Easy as in, not a ton of additions, because additional grain isn't any harder than less grain. It's all getting mashed at the same time.

Easy, in that it doesn't have a ton of additions during the boil, and easy in that it is a beer style that doesn't need to be baby sat, or special treatment, it's ready relatively fast, and can hide most flaws of a new brewer.
 
Try a Porter, or an ESB. A Brown Ale, a Hefe, heck even a Blonde.

All of those are low hops, nice beers. Some maltier than others, but none of those styles are very hop forward.

I have a pretty simple Chocolate Oatmeal Porter recipe I made under my name that people like. It's not hoppy, it's pretty easy to make. Easy as in, not a ton of additions, because additional grain isn't any harder than less grain. It's all getting mashed at the same time.

Easy, in that it doesn't have a ton of additions during the boil, and easy in that it is a beer style that doesn't need to be baby sat, or special treatment, it's ready relatively fast, and can hide most flaws of a new brewer.

Could your Chocolate Oatmeal Porter be done BIAB..?

Haven't gotten a Mash-tun yet Its on the list after I get by "Brew Room" done.
 
I can follow directions for the most part :) So I would assume "easy" would be a simple recipe that doesn't require a lot of different grains or something.

If it helps.. I prefer the maltier and sweeter beers.. not a fan of IPA or a lot of in your face hops.

There are a ton of great recipes in our recipe database. I'm sure you can find something you'd like and we can help you with directions if you need them.

If you like malty, my Dead Guy clone is a malt bomb to me. (Under my avatar in the "recipes" pull down).
 
Could your Chocolate Oatmeal Porter be done BIAB..?

Haven't gotten a Mash-tun yet Its on the list after I get by "Brew Room" done.

I don't see why not. I haven't ever BIAB. But certainly would work. Might need to scale it down maybe, so use Beersmith for that, it'll help a ton.
 
Will do.. still trying to get the hang of the program.. :)

Who knows might go and make/buy some of the other components by the end of the week.

My first beer was delivered early, and drinking it now. On beer three and its still good and getting better (Of course after Beer 3 all beer gets better). Compares quite nicely to Duck-Rabbits Milk Stout..
 
Well FG was 1.017 a respectable 6.5% ABV

Now that said the slight sour flavor I thought it had has turned into more band-aid flavor..

Reading around, realized its probably my water or a slight infection (give the sour notes I had tasted).

In either case, is there anything that can be done about that.. or will it just be there.. Its not horrible.. but it is a weird flavor towards the end. Otherwise its very smooth.. probably going to bottle in a week or two. Have to get the secondary cleared for the RIS I am doing..
 
Bottled last night.. a 5L mini-Keg, (2) 1L growlers, and about 36 bottles.

The off flavors have all but disappeared.. The end result of the honey was to give it a nice dry finish. Not a harsh alcohol dryness, more of a sharp fresh finish.

I REALLY can't wait to try this.. in about a month our Local HB Association is having a extract contest.. I think I shall enter it :)

Next up a Oak chip soaked in Rum and chocolate infused, Russian Imperial Stout..

The RIS has now lost all bubbles in the primary, (been on primary almost 3 weeks now)..

Going to put it into the SS Secondary, and cold condition it like a lager.. think that should give it a real nice smooth finish.
 
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