Settle An Argument?

So I was brewing the other day and a friend of mine, witnessing me putting hop bags in the bk, put forth the idea that it would be far more efficient and produce a better final result if the hop bags were submerged to the middle of the kettle. I disagree. Keep in mind I'm constantly pushing them down under the water level and the entire bag is wet throughout. Shouldn't this extract just as much of that hoppy goodness as any other method? Just curious, thanks!

I'd bet that if you did an experiment you wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

What kind of hops are you using, whole or pellets?

The fact that the boil is constantly circulating the wort means that it really shouldn't make a difference

duboman said:

The fact that the boil is constantly circulating the wort means that it really shouldn't make a difference

Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. Thanks! And they are whole hops.

Some contend that hop extraction is limited by using a bag, others disagree.

wilserbrewer said:

Some contend that hop extraction is limited by using a bag, others disagree.

Click to expand...

True, but he's talking about the effect of the bag location in the boil. I can't imagine that makes any difference.

Bag location makes no difference but putting whole hops in a bag may make a slight difference. Pellets will make less of a difference in a bag since you get better utilization. Like others have said overall you probably can't tell that much if any difference!

Yea, that cannot possibly affect your end product.

Everyone here is going to provide their opinion. If they use a bag they will say it doesn't make a difference. If they don't use a bag they will say it does make a difference.

The only way to definitively answer this is to make two identical batches, use a bag on one. Then send two samples to a lab that can do IBU testing.

jhoyda said:

Everyone here is going to provide their opinion. If they use a bag they will say it doesn't make a difference. If they don't use a bag they will say it does make a difference.

The only way to definitively answer this is to make two identical batches, use a bag on one. Then send two samples to a lab that can do IBU testing.

Click to expand...

Correct, except the OP is asking about where the bag is placed in the boil, not whether to use one or not

duboman said:

Correct, except the OP is asking about where the bag is placed in the boil, not whether to use one or not

Click to expand...

Good point. So just substitute "floating on top" and "sunk to the bottom" and it's still completely applicable! Actually that works for most arguments around here: until someone shells out some money for proper testing everyone is going to keep posting "I do it this way and can't tell a difference, so it must not make a difference"

jhoyda said:

Good point. So just substitute "floating on top" and "sunk to the bottom" and it's still completely applicable! Actually that works for most arguments around here: until someone shells out some money for proper testing everyone is going to keep posting "I do it this way and can't tell a difference, so it must not make a difference"

Click to expand...

Correct, so going back to my original response, the boil itself creates a natural circulation in the kettle so whether one is pushing the bag down or allowing it to rise or positioning it in the center is pretty irrelevant

duboman said:

Correct, so going back to my original response, the boil itself creates a natural circulation in the kettle so whether one is pushing the bag down or allowing it to rise or positioning it in the center is pretty irrelevant

Click to expand...

I agree. Every water molecule will travel the entire pot several million times, (guesstament). The placement won't matter.

My hops bags are pulled under and rolled around then spit back to the top, over and over, and over.

pb

jhoyda said:

Good point. So just substitute "floating on top" and "sunk to the bottom" and it's still completely applicable! Actually that works for most arguments around here: until someone shells out some money for proper testing everyone is going to keep posting "I do it this way and can't tell a difference, so it must not make a difference"

Click to expand...

duboman said:

Correct, so going back to my original response, the boil itself creates a natural circulation in the kettle so whether one is pushing the bag down or allowing it to rise or positioning it in the center is pretty irrelevant

Click to expand...

plumber_bob said:

I agree. Every water molecule will travel the entire pot several million times, (guesstament). The placement won't matter.

My hops bags are pulled under and rolled around then spit back to the top, over and over, and over.

pb

Click to expand...

See, I rest my case.

Exactly how does your friend propose to keep the hops suspended in the middle of the kettle?

Theoretically, all the time the hops are floating on the surface, they have less surface area in contact with the wort. Even if they are bobbing up and down, they spend some time at the top.

Since I've never heard of a brewery going through lengths to address that possibility though, I'd have to guess the effect is pretty tiny.