I'm this close to giving up. Seriously.

bernerbits said:

You can be honest. Am I just an as5hole husband? Or should I expect better than this? I'm really not trying to escape any of the blame here. Don't be afraid to hurt my feelings. Seriously.

Click to expand...

Just sayin, you might want to take that out at this point if you are more wanting to vent than get advice.

I think you're right to stand up to us. You've posted a great deal of personal information and we should respect you for that. You have asked us for help in dealing with the situation you are in and have clearly stated that running from her is not one of them.

So my advice to you is to start with the situation that you just had with her. Even though it was not you fault for her waking up late, how might you have handled it differently? I am a strong believer that you cannot ask someone to change, however you can change the way you react or behave to her, which might give you better results. For example telling her your going to hang out with the guys while she's yelling at you, hmm not the best time to tell her.

Oh!

I also forgot; How to Win Friends and Influence People.

Read it. Saved my relationship and helped with my job.

drinkabeergle said:

Just sayin, you might want to take that out at this point if you are more wanting to vent than get advice.

Click to expand...

The original intent of that sentence was not to be afraid to say so if you thought I was at fault here.

It wasn't carte blanche to call me a 14-year-old girl.

For example telling her your going to hang out with the guys while she's yelling at you, hmm not the best time to tell her.

Click to expand...

She was leaving for work, I go every thursday, when else was I going to tell her?

Just add a bit more.

It just seems like you are on a self fullfilling prophecy. If you want to be the dominant one or atleast an equal, then you're gonna have to discuss this with her, preferrably with your thereapist and preferrably not during an argument. You're also gonna have to step up, like other's have said so.

A friend of mine was married for 15 years. His wife was very dominant. Well after 15 years, she remained the same and he started standing up to her. The marriage caved in. When he looks back, he kinda admits that he knew what he was getting into. Basically he realizes that he just didn't feel like being passive anymore.

I think you have to ask yourself can you really live this way. Her being dominant and being over bearing. Is this what attracts you to her. There is nothing wrong with that, if you are ok with it.

I've dated dominant women that were very headstrong like me. Sure I loved them, but I knew it was not for me. Have you dated other women that were passive? How did you feel with them? Were you ever the dominant one?

Derek,

Your story is very sad. I truly wish you the best and hope that counseling helps. I am not one to give advice about personal things (I am young too), but it does sound like your wife does not consider your sensitivity and does not appreciate you. Some women are mean and manipulative; it is in some people's make-up. You sound like a very sensitive guy who truly cares about trying to do the right thing.

Never let anyone make you feel bad for that!!! You will never be a pushover if you are confident in your decisions. You don't sound like a push over to me. That word gets brandied about by people who go through life like a charging bull. Just because you are the loudest and outspoken guy in a room doesn't mean you are less in any way. Stand up for yourself, even if it is internally, and make your own decisions from your heart.

Even those who are yelling at you are doing it to try and help. None of us wants to see you hurt, and reading these updates is very difficult. Seeing how unhappy and unfair your marriage is is a very sad thing and we just want you to be happy.

I will raise a glass for you tonight.

Have you dated other women that were passive? How did you feel with them? Were you ever the dominant one?

Click to expand...

I dated one other woman from my freshman year in college until about a year after graduation. We were engaged but I couldn't find steady work and that turned her off so she left me for another guy. Six months later I started dating my wife.

That is my entire. dating. history.

bernerbits said:

Look, if you think it's cool to lie to someone you claim to care about, that's your prerogative. And I'm glad you've decided it's horrible and unsalvageable, but it's not ultimately your call.

Click to expand...

I don't think it's cool to lie to someone I care about. And I'm not trying to make any ultimate calls. Just want to see you in fair marriage and see you sticking up for yourself because of your reasons not influenced by any one else. Sorry if it comes off like I'm telling you what to do, which would be the main problem in the first palce of people pushing you around. Just my bad way of offering my advice.

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

Derek,
Even those who are yelling at you are doing it to try and help. None of us wants to see you hurt, and reading these updates is very difficult. Seeing how unhappy and unfair your marriage is is a very sad thing and we just want you to be happy.

Click to expand...

I think Boerderij_Kabouter explained it best here.

does not appreciate you.

Click to expand...

Well, she makes me breakfast every morning, dinner most evenings (when I don't offer to cook), keeps the apartment spotless, does the dishes and laundry, and makes sure there's always beer in the fridge. So I think on some level she does appreciate me. That's also a hell of a thing to give up.

It's just that emotionally, she's extremely vulnerable and a tad unstable. At least that might be able to be partially controlled with medication.

wait, she makes sure to keep beer in the fridge. SHE'S A KEEPER. Who pays the bills? and in regards to your dating history, you didnt answer my question was this other gal passive or dominant? If she was passive how did you feel about it.?

I suggest, uh oh not him again, to put this thread on hold until you've been to counseling a few times with someone who see's both of you. We are completely biased AGAINST your wife from the picture you've painted, but you occasionally slide in a good trait about her. I'd **** my pants if my wife cooked me breakfast every morning and dinner every night, but it wouldn't be a ticket for abusive behavior either.
See ya in a few weeks/months after therapy. Good luck. You are our brewing brother regardless of how annoyed some posts might make us at/for you.

***TO CLEAR ANY CONFUSION - the "Uh Oh, not him again," portion was directed as , Uh Oh, not another post from that A-Hole IrregularPulse****

Best of luck Berner.

If she does take meds, make sure she stays on them. The women in my family have a history of "issues" and when they get on the pills they straighten out and are fine. Then think they are cured and stop taking the pills.

And the cycle starts over. It's not pretty.

We are completely biased AGAINST your wife from the picture you've painted,

Click to expand...

Yeah people tell me this even though I try and remind people that my bias is highly negative when I come on here. I'm very bad about being totally objective about my relationships.

but you occasionally slide in a good trait about her.

Click to expand...

wait, she makes sure to keep beer in the fridge. SHE'S A KEEPER.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'm sorry I took so long to bring it up. When I'm down it gets hard to think about the good stuff.

Who pays the bills?

Click to expand...

For the most part, me, but if I'm running low after paying off the cars, student loans, rent, utilities etc. she'll write a check or two.

and in regards to your dating history, you didnt answer my question was this other gal passive or dominant? If she was passive how did you feel about it.?

Click to expand...

Very dominant. And physically abusive. One time she pinned me down and headbutted me into a concrete floor because I told her I was breaking it off. She then locked herself in a bathroom and pretended to take pills so I would call the cops and get her locked up in a hospital. Then she called her friends and said I lied and put her there and got them to all shame me for "hurting her like that". And that was before we were engaged. I was mostly miserable.

I suggest, uh oh not him again, put this thread on hold until you've been to counseling a few time with someone who see's both of.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I'd better get going, that's going on 2 work hours I can't bill for now

bernerbits said:

Yeah people tell me this even though I try and remind people that my bias is highly negative when I come on here. I'm very bad about being totally objective about my relationships.

This is where the importance of your counselor/therapist (I keep going back in forth in my posts) will be able to help the most, Oh and because of all the education and experience she has over us too I suppose.


Yeah, I'm sorry I took so long to bring it up. When I'm down it gets hard to think about the good stuff.
Good thing yes, a reason to expect the truly bas stuff? No, Getting your own beer is not hard.



For the most part, me, but if I'm running low after paying off the cars, student loans, rent, utilities etc. she'll write a check or two.
Does she make similar money to you? Withing 5-10K a year? If so I seriously hope she is pounding money into a joint savings account. If you're paying everything and then she pays an occasional bill and banks the rest, you are screwing yourself. Especially if you wind up in a divorce, no money to start over with.



Very dominant. And physically abusive. One time she pinned me down and headbutted me into a concrete floor because I told her I was breaking it off. She then locked herself in a bathroom and pretended to take pills so I would call the cops and get her locked up in a hospital. Then she called her friends and said I lied and put her there and got them to all shame me for "hurting her like that". And that was before we were engaged. I was mostly miserable.

Click to expand...

Bold Red Print says Despite my harsh posts my frustration comes from hating to see a guy like this. My best friend in HS was the same way. Never dated much, let girls push him around so he could have a girl. Finally he got past it all and is much happier with a good girl. She's a little controlling but nowhere near his and your pasts. More so like the TV characters you quoted from before. But with actauly healthy love backing it up.

Does she make similar money to you? Withing 5-10K a year? If so I seriously hope she is pounding money into a joint savings account.

Click to expand...

No, she makes about $80K less than me per year. We don't even own a joint account.

That bold red was my ex, by the way. So I suppose I judge the severity of my wife's actions by past experience and that's a major reason I'm not seeing it as negatively as a lot of people here.

I am not a therapist, I do not play one on TV. (disclaimer)

From the last few posts from you berner it sounds like you need to start to value yourself. What I mean is, you need to learn your are a decent person and do not deserve to be treated that way. People in your situation refer to it as the spouse having a bad day, or, well they do some good things which should offset the not so good.

I suspect counceling will mirror what I am thinking about you valueing yourself and realizing self worth. This has nothing to do with standing up for yourself or not being a pushover. If you understand you are a good person and have alot of good qualities you may find it alot easier to think, "you know there are a lot of other fish in the sea and if i do make a choice to leave her I will not be alone forever". No, you have never said anything about not wanting to be alone, but we are all human, no one wants to fail or be alone.

And your wife. I am sure she has good qualities. everyone does. Are they qualites that help you feel like a good person, or are they qualities that make you feel taken care of? All the things she does, that you have pointed out, are things that one does to take care of someone. Think of yourself as a dog. She would then instead of breakfast and dinner be feeding you and walking you, but not giving you what you need as a couple. You dont need a mother, you need a spouse.
I would also bet that the counselor tells her she has an anger problem. I bet if she can hear that and her ego is not damaged it can go along way in healing your relationship.

good luck my friend.

Reverend JC said:

Think of yourself as a dog.

Click to expand...

Ouch. The unflattering analogies keep coming.

The point was that obviously she cares on some level, and someone who keeps my apartment clean makes me look good. I never claimed my emotional needs were being met.

bernerbits said:

Ouch. The unflattering analogies keep coming.

The point was that obviously she cares on some level, and someone who keeps my apartment clean makes me look good. I never claimed my emotional needs were being met.

Click to expand...

berner, i care. you are choosing to attack an analogy, but how about the rest. The counselor I saw would tell me my ego was getting in the way of me answering the question or looking into myself. Do you value yourself?

ego: not as in my thinking i am so great, but my inner being.

bernerbits said:

Ouch. The unflattering analogies keep coming.

The point was that obviously she cares on some level, and someone who keeps my apartment clean makes me look good. I never claimed my emotional needs were being met.

Click to expand...

If you make over 80K a year you could afford what they call a MAID to do that as well with no abuse

But i think the comparison to a horrible previous relationship makes this one seem not so bad. That is something you should bring up. Find a couple, friends, parents, grandparents, anyone who is in a good relationship close to you. Compare your's to that. Expect that kind of relationship, Realize that's the kind of relationship everyone should strive for, not just better than getting headbutted into concrete floors.

^Actually, couples who have a homecleaning service tend to be much happier. Something to consider also.

Reverend JC said:

I am not a therapist, I do not play one on TV. (disclaimer)

From the last few posts from you berner it sounds like you need to start to value yourself. What I mean is, you need to learn your are a decent person and do not deserve to be treated that way. People in your situation refer to it as the spouse having a bad day, or, well they do some good things which should offset the not so good.

I suspect counceling will mirror what I am thinking about you valueing yourself and realizing self worth. This has nothing to do with standing up for yourself or not being a pushover. If you understand you are a good person and have alot of good qualities you may find it alot easier to think, "you know there are a lot of other fish in the sea and if i do make a choice to leave her I will not be alone forever". No, you have never said anything about not wanting to be alone, but we are all human, no one wants to fail or be alone.

And your wife. I am sure she has good qualities. everyone does. Are they qualites that help you feel like a good person, or are they qualities that make you feel taken care of? All the things she does, that you have pointed out, are things that one does to take care of someone. Think of yourself as a dog. She would then instead of breakfast and dinner be feeding you and walking you, but not giving you what you need as a couple. You dont need a mother, you need a spouse.
I would also bet that the counselor tells her she has an anger problem. I bet if she can hear that and her ego is not damaged it can go along way in healing your relationship.

good luck my friend.

Click to expand...

+1.

I was re-reading this with my wife, and we both came to the same conclusion.

It doesn't sound like you have a lot of self-confidence. This is not meant in any way as an attack, but it really seems like you're not feeling all that great about who YOU are. Forget about the relationship for the time being; you've got to feel good about all the great things about yourself.

I almost wonder whether it would be just as worthwhile for you to talk to someone, just yourself, even moreso than couples therapy. I mean, given the limitations of this BEING an internet forum and not knowing either of you personally, it sure reads like you both have some issues with self-confidence. With her, it takes the form of being controlling/abusive, with you, letting yourself remain in what seems to be an unhealthy relationship.

I don't see how a relationship counselor is going to help if you both have core issues with yourselves.

Good luck.

IrregularPulse said:

If you make over 80K a year you could afford what they call a MAID to do that as well with no abuse

Click to expand...

I have suggested maid service in the past. Unfortunately my current pay is only secure for the next 5-6 months since I'm now making most of my money on contract-by-contract bases. But even back when I was full-time employed, I was making $40K more than her. The only one putting into savings has been me.

I'm thinking in our cases, a counselor would be likely to suggest individual therapy as well as couple therapy. I've got health insurance in the works but until then she's $90 a pop.

shecky said:

Wow, such compassion.

You make a lot of accusations without knowing the man's wife. Granted, it's a bad situation and mirrors my first marriage, as I've already stated. But let's stop jumping on berner, please. We each approach it in different ways.

Click to expand...

I'm not jumping on him, I'm just saying is - people don't really change...
they can modify thier behavior some, sure... but at the end of the day they still are who they are - all this huggy feely crap like "counciling" isn't going to change either of the folks involved - The OP is still going to have to deal with a wife who is at her core... an angry *****. (the fact that she holds a silly "body shot" taken 3 years prior to the marrage over his head as ammunition for her tirades is utter maddness bordering on pathological) yeah at councelling she might say she's "going to try and make things work" - but I've heard this before- men and women both, mind you, in other relationships (and a few of my own) say the same damn thing. IMHO... once an abuser... always an abuser.
and this woman is being abusive - now of course the OP may not be totaly innocent in all this, but suffice to say the fact that he finaly grew some balls and hollared back at her and really told her what was on his mind, then felt like crap aftwards leads me to belive his heart is in the right place and he's probably the more rightous of the two!

the sad thing Is I can read enough into this situation to know that if it's splitsville, this woman is going to be a vindictive, vicious turd about it. (she is already being a vicious vindictive turd) she WILL make his life more of a living hell, you can count on it... my advice on letting her make the step into the realm of physical abuse is probably the only way this poor guy is going to make it out of this with most of his financial assets in good order - too often the guy gets the short end of the stick in a divorce or leagal seperation.
however if the lady in question crosses the line into being a cheater/adultress or physical abuser, the poor bloke can usually escape with enough of his twig and berries intact to get on with life and find someone more compatable to be with.

and FYI, I'm a happliy married man, who got lucky and found the "right" woman to complement my normally dark, twisted, agressive and generaly pessimistic outlook on life. my wife plays the light to my dark - and the two of us are stronger because of it. we have our arguments, but generally it's petty small stuff that we get resolved quickly. in a "good" relationship there are no "skeletons in the closet" involving behaviors prior to the marriage,
my past exploits and blunders were aired out during the dating phase, as were hers - we both agreed that the past is the past and moved on. I can chat up any lady I like, in my wifes presance or not and suffer no ill concequences, and she in turn can do the same with any man she meets at a social function, neither one of us are interested in cheating or looking elsewhere for phyisical or mental companionship - a person should be able to enjoy the innocent company of the opposite sex while in a relationship, after all we are social animals, and grow though our interaction with other humans.
and a healthy relationship should be able to absorb this kind of interaction.
for example if I meet a lady of interest, I usually chat her up as if she were "one of the guys" and later report back to my wife something like: "hey I met this cool chick, seems like a nice person to hang out with, she invited us to come out to a beach party she's having" does this mean I want to bang this girl? no... just simple social networking going on, pure and simple.
I also have a habit of flirting with waitresses if they are interesting mentaly and physically. this is just to test if "I still have it" my wife knows I do this - and somtimes even gets amused by it. does this mean I want to go out and actually boink cocktail waitresses? uhhhhh. no... it's purely a mental game I like to play, my wife does the same thing with her Yoga classmates and male staff at resturants. (actually it's a bit of a turn on for me when some guy is so obviously attracted to my wife -makes me feel like "heh, Too bad for you dude, I won... keep dreamin' ")

At age 27, the OP is too young to deal with being miserable - that is all I'm saying... he's still got a ton of ground to cover in his life - and being anchored to such a petty, vindictive person is going to cost him in the long run.
either he needs to fix it and fix it proper, or move on and find something better.
I really wish him the best of luck, and honestly - I'm rooting for him.

OK guys, I suppose an update is in order. Leslie and I have been in counseling, both individually and as a couple, for the past two months. It's not all worked out, of course, but at least the therapist has us communicating, which is at least a step in the right direction. I feel disinclined at this point to continue revealing intimate details of my relationship, or using this board as a tool for venting.

I appreciate all the advice, but now I think it would be better, now that we are actively working at improving this marriage, to allow me the privacy to work at it on my own. If things continue to deteriorate, I will try and make the best choice for both of us, but for now I've decided to try and make it work first.

If any of you are bothered by this for any reason, I think it's a fair bet I've heard all you have to say, and I'd appreciate your kindness in keeping silent.

Lock, please.

Hope everything works out and you end up happy, whether that is together or apart.

Henry Hill said:

Lock, please.

Click to expand...

I 2nd that notion.

It's cool to see you are giving things a chance. I wish you the best no matter what.