Is absolutely necessary roasted barley for a Dry Irish Stout?

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darkmastiff

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Hi i want to do a Dry Irish Stout with extract and specialty grain i have the extract and all the specialty grains except roasted barley, my supplier saids that no have idea of when they have it, the most of the recipes uses roasted barley but, is absolutely necessary for a good irish Stout? Can i used another grain or simply i don´t used?

thanks in advanced for your help

and again sorry for my english
 
I did a stout without roasted barley once (I didn't have any) I didn't replace it with anything, but it still turned out very nice. It was hard to nail anything that I didn't like about it. Hitting the right fermenting temperatures, good yeast and all the other fundamentals are usually much more important than most recipes adjustments, in my opinion.
 
if you can't get roasted barley, then I would replace it with some black malt (aka black patent malt) and/or some dark roasted chocolate malt.
 
Stout - RB = Porter... nothing wrong with that, it just won't be a stout.

This was my understanding as well. I would think adding black malt or chocolate malt in place of roasted barley would also indicate porter. But it's you're brew. Call it what you want to call it:tank:
 
This was my understanding as well. I would think adding black malt or chocolate malt in place of roasted barley would also indicate porter. But it's you're brew. Call it what you want to call it:tank:

I don't think it is that black and white. Maybe I'm wrong, but my take on porters and stouts (and all their variations) is that they are essentially on a continuum of dark, roasty ales. The lines are blurry. However, most stouts probably do contain roasted barley. Since the OP cannot get roasted barley, the next best thing for him to do is to replace it with some other highly kilned malt, like black or chocolate. Will this be a stout? I guess it depends on how it tastes - if you don't know the recipe, what would you call it? It will be dark and roasty for sure, even if not a "classic" dry irish stout.
 
I was curious about the difference between stouts and porters, since both can be very dark and have similar flavors. I did some searching around on here about a week ago and the consensus seemed to be that stouts have at least a half pound of roasted barley for a 5 gallon batch and porters either have less or no roasted barley.
 
I don't think it is that black and white. Maybe I'm wrong, but my take on porters and stouts (and all their variations) is that they are essentially on a continuum of dark, roasty ales. The lines are blurry. However, most stouts probably do contain roasted barley. Since the OP cannot get roasted barley, the next best thing for him to do is to replace it with some other highly kilned malt, like black or chocolate. Will this be a stout? I guess it depends on how it tastes - if you don't know the recipe, what would you call it? It will be dark and roasty for sure, even if not a "classic" dry irish stout.

Lines are definitely blurry. However, I'm coming from the view that while both are dark and roasty, the there are differences in the flavors and roasted barley imparts a specific roasty flavor that is a core element of a stout (at least a modern stout). Adding black or chocolate in addition to roasted barley is one thing, but eliminating the roasted barley entirely is something else. The OP is obviously free to use whichever ingredients he wants (or has available), and call it whatever he wants, and I'm sure it'll be great beer either way. But I also don't know what final flavor he's expecting. If I were to brew a stout, and swap out the roasted barley for black or chocolate, I'd be expecting something more along the lines of a porter. That said, substituting is probably the next best thing (in which case I'd go with black malt), unless, as another poster suggested, roasting his own is a possibility.
 
Stout - RB = Porter... nothing wrong with that, it just won't be a stout.

That's not true.

A typical Dry Irish Stout is 70/20/10 2-row, flaked barley, and roasted barley. You take away that 10% roasted barley and it's just 2-row and flaked barley. That isn't a porter at all.
 
As far as all this talk about "What is it really?", well, is the OP brewing this for a competition? If not, then it's all semantics, and the more valid question is "Will it taste good?" and "What does the OP want to call it?" He/she can call it a pilsener or even a lambic for all I care, it's his/her damn beer. :D
 
That's not true.

A typical Dry Irish Stout is 70/20/10 2-row, flaked barley, and roasted barley. You take away that 10% roasted barley and it's just 2-row and flaked barley. That isn't a porter at all.

That's what I thought. I made one exactly like that.

You can make your recipe and call it whatever you want, but I wouldn't call it a dry stout. Stout, maybe.
 
I've never been one for limiting myself to competition guidelines. But if I'm aiming for a certain style with certain dominant flavors, I'd like to have those flavors present at least to some degree. Would using black malt be close enough? Perhaps. If I attempt to brew an IPA and I end up with too little hop aroma I'll still be disappointed even if it tastes alright. Maybe it's just me. But that's why I said, I wasn't sure what flavor the OP was aiming for. Just something dark and roasty? Black malt and porter-esque will do fine. But want the roasty coffee tones characteristic of a dry stout? Roasted barley is important. I'd think that's a bit bigger than quibbling over specific gravity numbers or IBUs to make sure you enter the right category in a competition.
 
I've never been one for limiting myself to competition guidelines. But if I'm aiming for a certain style with certain dominant flavors, I'd like to have those flavors present at least to some degree. Would using black malt be close enough? Perhaps. If I attempt to brew an IPA and I end up with too little hop aroma I'll still be disappointed even if it tastes alright. Maybe it's just me. But that's why I said, I wasn't sure what flavor the OP was aiming for. Just something dark and roasty? Black malt and porter-esque will do fine. But want the roasty coffee tones characteristic of a dry stout? Roasted barley is important. I'd think that's a bit bigger than quibbling over specific gravity numbers or IBUs to make sure you enter the right category in a competition.

I guess this is what I was trying to get at. If it tastes like a stout, it's a stout regardless of whether or not it contains roast barley (or how much). Can you get that "stout flavor" without roast barley and enough black malt? I don't know, but if it does, who's to say it isn't a stout?
 
Hi i want to do a Dry Irish Stout with extract and specialty grain i have the extract and all the specialty grains except roasted barley, my supplier saids that no have idea of when they have it, the most of the recipes uses roasted barley but, is absolutely necessary for a good irish Stout? Can i used another grain or simply i don´t used?

thanks in advanced for your help

and again sorry for my english

Without roasted barley what you have is a Dry Irish Porter, which would still be yummy!
 
I would use chocolate malt and torrified barley. Basically the roast will make it dry and roasty. You also want that unkilned roast barley flavor, that is what the torrified barley if for. Also body and head retention.
 
You can sort of mimic the roasty flavor with a mixture of chocolate and black malt. At the very least no carapils should be used, (use terrified barley) and if you can't find roasted barley, I would say 2 parts chelate malt with 1 part black malt should still give a great beer. Is it going to be an Irish stout, no... but will it be a great beer? I would think so.
 
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