burn on inside of stainless steel brewing kettle

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dukedog

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Hi all,

I made my first batch from an extract kit this past weekend. When I was done I realized that I didn't stir my wort enough or I left my specialty grain bag in one spot for too long as there was a 3 inch in diameter scorch mark on the bottom of the kettle. There is definitely some carbon there but so far I've been unable to remove it.. going forward with future batches is this something that will negatively affect my finished product?

Is there a way to remove this stuff that won't harm the kettle or would it be fine to leave it? I'm kinda bummed about it as it was brand new.
 
you could try freezing it off, dry ice does a nice job. get that sucker hella cold and u should be able to scrape it off. or a long soak in a degreaser?
 
Heavy Duty Easy-Off oven cleaner works well for removing it. Barkeeper's Friend will also work, but it will require more time. Wet the kettle bottom and sprinkle a generous amount of the BKF over the scorched spots and let it soak overnight. Next day use a green scrubbie thingy and some elbow grease. Repeat this procedure as necessary which may require three or more applications depending on how bad the scorching is. You can also put the kettle back on the burner and heat up a small amount of water with a large dose of the BKF. The heat seems to make it work faster. I've also used automatic dishwasher detergent the same way with good results. It's very rare that I scortch anything these days, but when I do, that's how I deal with it. Hope this is of some help to you.
 
+2 on the Heavy Duty Easyoff oven cleaner. Spray it on, let it sit for 30~45 minutes and wipe it clean. Just don't use it on aluminum pots only stainless.
 
Maybe some white vinegar and baking soda. Put them in the pot let them soak a little then boil it for 10 min. See how that works.
 
mariojr said:
Stainless steel scrubby and some elbow grease should take it off.
Click to expand...

This would be a big mistake. The stainless steel scrubby will result in scratches in the kettle. This will make it all the more likely that scorching or other marks will appear in the future. You should not use harsh abrasives like a metal scrubby on a stainless steel kettle.

Additionally, scrubbing with a metal material can remove the surface layer of the stainless steel (i.e., what makes it stainless) and cause rusting.
 
Ace_Club said:
This would be a big mistake. The stainless steel scrubby will result in scratches in the kettle. This will make it all the more likely that scorching or other marks will appear in the future. You should not use harsh abrasives like a metal scrubby on a stainless steel kettle.

Additionally, scrubbing with a metal material can remove the surface layer of the stainless steel (i.e., what makes it stainless) and cause rusting.
Click to expand...

I guess I have been living on the edge and will change my technique.
 
mariojr said:
I guess I have been living on the edge and will change my technique.
Click to expand...

Continue living on the edge mariojr.
As long as you're certain that the scrubby is stainless you won't see any ill effects from using it.
Sounds like you've been using a scrubby for a while. Haven't had any issues, have you?
Just use that scrubby exclusively on your kettle.
 
dmfa200 said:
Continue living on the edge mariojr.
As long as you're certain that the scrubby is stainless you won't see any ill effects from using it.
Sounds like you've been using a scrubby for a while. Haven't had any issues, have you?
Just use that scrubby exclusively on your kettle.
Click to expand...

I'd be interested to hear your reasoning as to why it is a good idea to roughen up the surface of the pot with a metal scrubby.

You really shouldn't be using anything more abrasive than a nylon scrubby.
 
My ex-mother in law taught me the boiling white vinager trick after I had scorched some LME. It worked.
 
dmfa200 said:
Continue living on the edge mariojr.
As long as you're certain that the scrubby is stainless you won't see any ill effects from using it.
Sounds like you've been using a scrubby for a while. Haven't had any issues, have you?
Just use that scrubby exclusively on your kettle.
Click to expand...

I have a Mega Pot and I have used the scrubby (100% sure it's stainless) on it many times and I have not problems with the pot. That's why I suggested it.

No chemicals, no waiting.
 
mariojr said:
I guess I have been living on the edge and will change my technique.
Click to expand...

Ace_Club said:
I'd be interested to hear your reasoning as to why it is a good idea to roughen up the surface of the pot with a metal scrubby.

You really shouldn't be using anything more abrasive than a nylon scrubby.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to start an argument, but I've been working with stainless steel for 15 years. Eleven of them as a pipe welder for major oil companies.
Stainless pipe after welding was cleaned with a stainless wire brush. Period. No repassivation. These lines went straight into service.
 
That's all fine and good. However, there is a big difference between cleaning a weld and cleaning a brew kettle. Are you saying you clean your kettles with a wire brush? If so, congratulations, your kettle is damaged!

There was a Brew Wizard article in the November 2003 issue of BYO, you should check it out. It talks all about how metal surfaces become more difficult to clean as roughness increases.

"In the stainless steel business we refer to the roughness average (or Ra) when discussing the surface of a metal. Metal surfaces have a wavy appearance when viewed under a microscope. A smooth surface has waves that are very close to each other and a rougher surface has waves that are further apart. Most equipment used for beer and milk has a Ra of 25 micro-inches (25 millionths of an inch) or smaller...What you are doing is roughening up the surface of your kettle and progressively making cleaning harder and harder to accomplish...For those of you with expensive stainless steel cookware or brew kettles, here is some money saving advice. DO NOT use any type of metallic abrasive pad when you clean. That includes 3M green scouring pads, copper balls of metal, stainless balls of metal and any metal tool that is handy."
 
Ace_Club said:
That's all fine and good. However, there is a big difference between cleaning a weld and cleaning a brew kettle. Are you saying you clean your kettles with a wire brush? If so, congratulations, your kettle is damaged!

There was a Brew Wizard article in the November 2003 issue of BYO, you should check it out. It talks all about how metal surfaces become more difficult to clean as roughness increases.

"In the stainless steel business we refer to the roughness average (or Ra) when discussing the surface of a metal. Metal surfaces have a wavy appearance when viewed under a microscope. A smooth surface has waves that are very close to each other and a rougher surface has waves that are further apart. Most equipment used for beer and milk has a Ra of 25 micro-inches (25 millionths of an inch) or smaller...What you are doing is roughening up the surface of your kettle and progressively making cleaning harder and harder to accomplish...For those of you with expensive stainless steel cookware or brew kettles, here is some money saving advice. DO NOT use any type of metallic abrasive pad when you clean. That includes 3M green scouring pads, copper balls of metal, stainless balls of metal and any metal tool that is handy."
Click to expand...

So your saying that billions of dollars worth of stainless piping, tanks, and vessels all over the world are damaged also because abrasive tools were used in their construction, repair, and maintenance. If stainless was that sensitive abrasives would be taboo.
Strict control over the tools, and materials used insures trouble free service with stainless steel!
Nearly all stainless that is specified to be passivated is by the customer, because the company contracted to do the work cannot be monitored 100% to insure that workers are following procedure. It is insurance.
Another reason is, it is impractical to manually clean 1000 parts or a product that would take hours to clean manually. Chemical passivation is the economical choice.
I'm speaking from actual, on the shop floor, hands on experience working with stainless.
 
I can understand and appreciate your concern about scratching the surface of the kettle but if you use a good stainless steel scrubbing pad, or even a wire brush, it will not cause it to rust. It will only rust when other metals are introduced to the stainless. I am in the aerospace industry and we build aluminum, stainless, titanium, and inconel tubing assemblies. I know all about class A, B, and C welds, surface treatments, and characteristics of those metals. Not everything but enough to really screw things up ;)

All the stainless lines on my rig have been cleaned using only abrasive pads that have only touched stainless and stainless wire brushes, no rust.
 
I agree with everyone except Ace_Club who suggested soaking it in OxiClean...? :rolleyes:

Like Jim Karr suggested, I use ammonia. It really is the easiest and cheapest way, and it works like gangbusters. I dump in enough to cover the burnt stuff, cover the kettle with a plastic bag to prevent evaporation, and let it sit overnight. I'll post some pics of the process in a couple of days.
 
No, what I'm saying is that if you want to continue cleaning your stainless steel pots and kettles with wire brushes and other harsh abrasives, please, go right ahead. You will see degradation over time.

Oh, and since you are so concerned with people's qualifications, the quote from BYO comes from someone who worked for the largest manufacturer of stainless steel equipment in the United States and is currently part of the equipment design and engineering group for a brewery.

I think I'll listen to him.
 
You could scrub for 100 years with a scrubby or wire brush and never get the surface roughness of an 80 grit tiger disk. That's a common abrasive used on stainless, and still not a problem!
 
dmfa200 said:
You could scrub for 100 years with a scrubby or wire brush and never get the surface roughness of an 80 grit tiger disk. That's a common abrasive used on stainless, and still not a problem!
Click to expand...

Let's see. So far, I've cited Ashton Lewis (BYO's Brew Wizard) and John Palmer for my case. You have thus far cited no one, just spouted opinions. I'd like to see one brewing related reference that you can cite that is for cleaning your stainless gear with wire brushes or metal scrubbing pads.
 
Ace_Club said:
Seriously? OxiClean is heavily used by many people on this board to clean their stainless and other brewing equipment. It is chemically the same as PBW (with some added fragrance if you don't buy the OxiClean Free). You need to do some research.
Click to expand...

Wow, bro. Who took the jam out of your doughnut?

Yes I'm serious, and yes I know that people on here use it on SS. I use it plenty of it on SS myself. However, you suggested to soak it in OxiClean, and you didn't specify for how long which I would interpret as an indefinite amount of time.

Funkenjaeger said in this post that the pitting caused by OxiClean is nothing minor. This has nothing to do with research. It has to do with experience vs. speculation. He said no more than 20-30 minutes, and I will trust his experience as opposed to your speculation.

On a side note, your sarcastic tone is only going to make everyone think you're an *******.
 
dmfa200 said:
I'm not trying to start an argument, but I've been working with stainless steel for 15 years. Eleven of them as a pipe welder for major oil companies.
Stainless pipe after welding was cleaned with a stainless wire brush. Period. No repassivation. These lines went straight into service.
Click to expand...

I work with someone with the same story. He worked at Coors and told me EVERYTHING was SS, even the drain/sewage system. He also taught me how to TIG and stick.

Sounds like a hardcore job. How thick was this SS pipe? I'm assuming you used an angle grinder. What size? What brand of brush?
 
Now, now boys. I believe you are both right to a certain extent. I work in chemicals, mostly Kosher, and everything that touches product is stainless. Ace, from what I understand, stainless is an alloy, not a coating. It's not Teflon. Yes, you can scratch it off, but it's stainless underneath. However, you have now created more surface area, which creates both temperature imbalances, which can cause scortching/burning, and cleaning issues. I woud say in the industrial applications, brought forth by dfma, cleaning issues are negligible by industry standards, but questionable by home standards (I myself am not that paranoid). There are also different grades of stainless, and I believe our boiling pots would be of the higher grades, which would be less tempted to rust, stain, etc by mistreatment.

Ultimately, use good quality equipment, be careful in use, and do your best to maintain it.
 
Ace_Club said:
Let's see. So far, I've cited Ashton Lewis (BYO's Brew Wizard) and John Palmer for my case. You have thus far cited no one, just spouted opinions. I'd like to see one brewing related reference that you can cite that is for cleaning your stainless gear with wire brushes or metal scrubbing pads.
Click to expand...

Ace_Club
I don't have to cite anyone but myself.
I've got my own experience to back up my claims.
Let's just agree to disagree.
 
ruppe said:
Ace, from what I understand, stainless is an alloy, not a coating. It's not Teflon. Yes, you can scratch it off, but it's stainless underneath.
Click to expand...

Yes, I understand the metallurgy of stainless steel, I'm talking about scratching the passive film.

"The chromium in the steel combines with oxygen in the atmosphere to form a thin, invisible layer of chrome-containing oxide, called the passive film. If the metal is cut or scratched and the passive film is disrupted, more oxide will quickly form and recover the exposed surface, protecting it from oxidative corrosion. The passive film requires oxygen to self-repair, so stainless steels have poor corrosion resistance in low-oxygen and poor circulation environments."
 
EarthBound said:
I work with someone with the same story. He worked at Coors and told me EVERYTHING was SS, even the drain/sewage system. He also taught me how to TIG and stick.

Sounds like a hardcore job. How thick was this SS pipe? I'm assuming you used an angle grinder. What size? What brand of brush?
Click to expand...

The stainless pipe I've welded varied in thickness from .035" to .5"
1/2" diameter up to 24" in diameter.
Yes, angle grinders were used. 4 1/2" and 7" grinders were used.
We used grinders to prep the bevel.
Most often a wafer disk or cut-off disk to feather the tacks, and starts and stops. We used an ordinary stainless steel wooden handled wire brush to remove weld discoloration after capping the weld when complete.
A wire wheel on a grinder will rough up the surface, so using them is not a good idea.
After all welding was complete X-rays were taken of random welds or 100% depending on the type of service, by the inspector.
Then the piping was hydro-statically tested to 1 1/2 times the service pressure. So if the pipe was to be under 900psi of service pressure it was pressurized to 1350psi and held at that pressure for the period of an hour with no allowable pressure drop.
After hydro testing the pipe was installed. NOOOOO repassivation!
Again, strict adherence to procedure was followed.
Codes I've followed while welding were ASME B31.1 and B31.3, API 1104, ASME BPVC, and AWS D1.1


Stainless steel is very resilient, very forgiving, and an amazing metal if you know how to work with it.
 
dmfa200 said:
Codes I've followed while welding were ASME B31.1 and B31.3, API 1104, ASME BPVC, and AWS D1.1

Stainless steel is very resilient, very forgiving, and an amazing metal if you know how to work with it.
Click to expand...

Again, I'll trust my information to come from professional brewers (Ashton Lewis) and people with metallurgy degrees (John Palmer). Not someone with experience meeting codes that have nothing to do with brewing or sanitary welds. (Also I'll assume you meant AWS D1.6 (Structural Welding Code - Stainless Steel) as D1.1 doesn't apply to stainless steel)
 
I had a similar problem, and I dumped out my used starsan in there and let the acid eat it off. Left it in there for a few days and it wiped right off! Simple!
 
And some more cleaning tips, this time from the makers of Stout Tanks & Kettles:

"Here are some tips for taking care of your Stout Conical Fermenters, Brew Kettles, and the like.

1. Never use steel wool, stainless steel wool, Brill-O Pads, etc. Use a sponge or at the most a blue "scrubby." Avoid green scrubbies from 3M as they will scratch the mirror polished finish.
2. After each use, disassemble the valves (it is very easy to do) and clean the parts. Beer and other liquids can get trapped inside the body and ruin your next batch of beer. This is why we made the valves so easy to disassemble – if it is hard – or even a minor pain to do - many people won't do it.
3. Never use bleach as a sanitizer. It corrodes stainless steel.
4. Use a bottle brush or test tube brush to clean out the inside of the side outlet port."
 
wilserbrewer said:
Back to the OP... a little dishwasher detergent, hot water and a long soak will remove most organics.
Click to expand...

This is true, but have you tried it with a bunch of burnt-on black crap? I did. It didn't phase it. Even a 30-minute (I wouldn't go longer than that because of pitting) soak in OxiClean :rolleyes: will not phase it. BKF/elbowgrease may work for fairly small amounts (like the 3 inch spot the OP mentioned), but I doubt it will work for most cases of burnt-on black crap.

A Google search on this subject will yield some fairly interesting results. From what I've found, ammonia is the best procedure. I look forward to posting the pics of the results because this thread could really use some pics...
 
I've soaked stainless in a hot Oxyclean solution for long durations with absolutely no problems at all. No pitting or any other issue. I think that the reports of Oxyclean reacting with SS are mucho bravo sierra. Either that, or the pilot had mistaken aluminum for SS. I've filled corny kegs with hot Oxyclean solution and left them for days on end with zero issues.
 
Ace_Club said:
Seriously? OxiClean is heavily used by many people on this board to clean their stainless and other brewing equipment. It is chemically the same as PBW (with some added fragrance if you don't buy the OxiClean Free). You need to do some research.
Click to expand...


IIRC, OxiClean is a less concentrated version of PBW but without the TSP (or current equivalent) additive, which is 30% of PBW by weight, so not totally identical. But I do use the OxiFree in my CIP/cleaning process with no issues.

I don't see the need to routinely "scrub" my kettles, so a gentle detergent is all I need generally. That being said, I currently have quite a bit of scale so I need to do a quick oxyclean and Bar Keeper's Friend cleaning.


As for the issues with passivation, use some BKF or other stainless cookware cleaner/polisher and you will be able to easily repassivate any of your kettles or brewpots (you should also treat any new drilled hole in a SS pot with BKF or other re-passivating cleaner). BKF or the stainless cookware cleaner (generally has tiny metallic flakes in it as a bit of an abrasive) but it is is great for scorched or baked-on-crap on cookware.


Personally, I wouldn't use the abrasives or anything that MAY mar the surface in any way on the inside of a fermentor (I have a stout tank and sankes as my primary fermentors), but kettles are a different animal, IMO.
 
Catt22 said:
I've soaked stainless in a hot Oxyclean solution for long durations with absolutely no problems at all. No pitting or any other issue. I think that the reports of Oxyclean reacting with SS are mucho bravo sierra. Either that, or the pilot had mistaken aluminum for SS. I've filled corny kegs with hot Oxyclean solution and left them for days on end with zero issues.
Click to expand...

Tend to agree with this. Either extremely high concentrations of OxiClean were used or the reports are based on confusing aluminum with SS. I have never had an issue with pitting on any SS vessel and I have also left for a couple days. This also includes a SS slop sink that has held a tub of oxiclean for a week on a couple of occasions.
 

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