I might use a gas burner inside. Is it safe?

I am wodering if using a gas burner inside a small kitchen with a 50-liter (13 gallon) with all the safety precautions is safe? Or if u guys do this at all?

You will need to have lots of ventilation. CO!

With good ventilation and a CO monitor it shouldn't be a problem. Invest in a decent one.

I wouldn't..... carbon dioxide is odorless so it's a big risk, having a sensor is good but I would just go outside and do the boil myself.

stvo said:

I wouldn't..... carbon dioxide is odorless so it's a big risk, having a sensor is good but I would just go outside and do the boil myself.

Click to expand...

Presumably there's a reason why he can't do that or he wouldn't be asking the question...

If you can make sure there is adequate ventilation (personally I would have windows open and extractors running if possible) the risk will be really very low.

I assume you mean a propane burner?

It's not really a great idea. In a garage with the door open that's good, maybe on an apartment balcony if you can get away with it. However, gallons of boiling liquid and an open flame are not likely a good idea indoors. I know we all brew indoors and it is boiling at the same temperature but you asked and I'm just offering my opinion; I would find another way. That's just me though.
By the way I just moved to an apartment from a house and I'm still trying to get it together here.

Check with your home owners/renters insurance.

iBrewR said:

Check with your home owners/renters insurance.

Click to expand...

And landlord, if applicable. They will give you a pretty definitive answer, I bet.

stvo said:

I wouldn't..... carbon dioxide is odorless so it's a big risk, having a sensor is good but I would just go outside and do the boil myself.

Click to expand...

Carbon dioxide, aka CO2, is odorless... but not nearly as dangerous as carbon monoxide, CO. I'd steer clear of using a propane burner indoors.

What if it's natural gas though? Less CO production, right?

Small kitchen,
Thirteen gallons,
Gas burner...??

It all adds up to a lot of steam, heat and carbon monoxide in a small room even with good ventilation.

I would not do it.

bosco

Firstly I believe using a burner indoors, or even in a garage is illegal. All fire safety arguments aside, there is the carbon monoxide issues from above. As an example, using my LP burner in my garage this winter with the door half closed, started getting a little dizzy and lightheaded. Opened that door right up and left the garage for a while. Do not mess around with monoxide poisioning. Scary stuff.

If you decide to go this route, and I highly reccomend against using an outdoor burner indoors, think through your ventilation thoroughly and take whatever percautions you have decided on and at least double them. Make sure you have at least two points open (doors, windows) to outside, with noticeable air flow between them and preferably add in fans, etc. Humidity will be an issue. Mold, peeling paint, electronics damage may occur. And for the love of all things beery, if you start to feel funny in any way shut off the heat and get the hell out of there for a while.

All in all it is a really bad idea. Especially if you have a high output regulator. Do not mess around when it comes to the safety of yourself an those that live with/around you.

Also, if you can't tell I feel strongly about this. Be safe.

DrunkleJon said:

Firstly I believe using a burner indoors, or even in a garage is illegal. All fire safety arguments aside, there is the carbon monoxide issues from above. As an example, using my LP burner in my garage this winter with the door half closed, started getting a little dizzy and lightheaded. Opened that door right up and left the garage for a while. Do not mess around with monoxide poisioning. Scary stuff.

Click to expand...

Yes it is dangerous and illegal for fire safety, but if the CO was getting to you, you need to adjust your equipment. Propane burns clean and a car starting up in the garage will produce a much, much more significant CO spike than a single propane burner w/ decent ventillation (garage with door open).

I would never burn inside the house. OTOH, brewing in my high ceilinged garage, near the center of the (open) bay door, with a fan or decent wind ventillation... well the risk is extremely low.

Ref: http://www.propane101.com/carbonmonoxideandpropane.htm

During the winter months and even last night I brew in a enclosed concrete stairwell. I crack the door up top to let the steam out and have never had a issue other than steam and condensation.

I know it is not very safe but heck when it is snowing out you do what you have to

OP, is there a good reason you need to boil indoors? If it is just to escape the cold, better cold toes than a body that has achieved room temperature (dead).

looneybomber said:

What if it's natural gas though? Less CO production, right?

Click to expand...

Yes, Natural Gas is fine for burning indoors. Otherwise you probably would see a lot less NG: water heaters, stoves, fireplaces in homes around the country.

Also, the liquid and steam aren't really an issue in my opinion. I do full volume boils in my kitchen on my stove, and there really isn't *that* much vapor collecting. Of course my kitchen is open to the rest of the house, if it were a small kitchen and it was closed off I guess *maybe* it would be an issue, but likely no more than a steamy bathroom after a shower.

The biggest problems with using a propane burner indoors have been covered. Carbon monoxide will kill you before you even realize there is a problem. This can be mitigated with proper ventilation, but as noted in one of the early posts, I wouldn't trust anything without a GOOD carbon monoxide monitor present.

The other issue is the outdoor burner not being rated for indoor use. It could cause something nearby to catch fire, or if something goes wrong and the thing tips over, that amount of flame can cause things to get out of hand quickly.

And of course the WORST case I can imagine, is you pass out due to CO poisoning, then the burner just keeps rolling until the liquid evaporates and the bottom of the kettle catches on fire, causing the entire building to burn down, with your passed out body still inside.

DrunkleJon said:

Do not mess around with monoxide poisioning. Scary stuff.

Click to expand...

Seriously. Not worth the risk, in my opinion.

LowNotes said:

Yes, Natural Gas is fine for burning indoors. Otherwise you probably would see a lot less NG: water heaters, stoves, fireplaces in homes around the country.

Click to expand...

There are many indoor propane burners too. The propane tank is always outside and the system is tuned so it burns clean.

The problem is with untuned systems (an outdoor burner can burn fairly clean, but never perfectly clean) and systems installed without a licensed plumber (i.e. outdoor screw-on systems, which have a higher failure rate).

In other words, it's not the gas... it's the system. You see more NG systems because it's easier to get (no deliveries) and cheaper to install (no tank). NG also floats (SG 0.65) vs Propane, which sinks and pools (SG 1.5), making NG slightly safer (floats away from most flame sources and doesn't stay near the gas source).

Personally, I would not do it. IMO, its way too risky.

LowNotes said:

Yes, Natural Gas is fine for burning indoors. Otherwise you probably would see a lot less NG: water heaters, stoves, fireplaces in homes around the country.

Click to expand...

Except for stoves, none of these items vent into the house. They all have flues.

I honestly cannot believe the OP posted this and this posting commanded this many long responses to something that requires a minimal amount of common sense and or a minimal amount of intelligence.

To the OP......... If you have to ask others if this is OK, you should really consider another hobby.

Subject: Open hydrocarbon gas flame indoors. Considerations: I find it hard to believe that many of the frequenters of this board have not experienced open flame natural gas or LPG heaters indoors. It is common, safe and inefficient. If you brew on LP burners and they are well tuned(minimal yellow flame, etc.) the risk of producing unsafe volumes of CO gas are nil. If you have, as I do, a natural gas range and oven, what extreme precautions do you take to ensure you don't die baking a pie? Let's try to keep it real if we can...

I wouldn't use the gas inside in that small area unless you have a large window near by to open. I use my burner in my garage but leave a side window open and the garage door about half way open and I've not had any problems.

My water heater, Thermador stove, and two gas burning fireplaces are all propane. At deer camp my indoor lights, stove and refrigerator / freezer are all propane. It isn't the fuel it's the burner. Outdoor grills and outdoor turkey fryer burners are produced cheaper and less efficient than the burners produced for use indoors. Buy a good quality burner designed for indoor use, keep it clean and in good working order and brew all you want inside!

Here's what I go by.

On the gas stove, look at the bottom of a standard pan you boiled water in for an hour. You probably won't find any black char type signatures.

Put your BK on the burner you use it on and do the same. You will find alot of black char on it. Signs of a burn that gives off the deadly gases.

Clean burn/ no black stuff = good to go. Dirty burn/black stuff = put the rig out the door, or vent the heck outta the place.

Always use a CO monitor when using any gas indoors. Furnace, water heater, stove, anything. including a gas brewing setup. You could die in an open garage that has no/bad air flow.

pb --- yes plumbers do gas too. And in more was than one!!!

I don't like using a propane burner outdoors. I can't imagine using one indoors.

Aside from the fact that this is a thread from May, using a burner indoors is a bad idea. Yes, some of the smaller consumers are useable indoors (water heaters, etc usually have some sort of chimney) and burners go through copious quantities of propane (I have gone through almost a entire tank in one go when I was not burning efficiently.

Im really surprised by all these responses. Ive done 22 batches in the last 14 months, almost all of them full boils in my garage with a camp burner and a 1 gallon keg on top. To heat my mash water and to boil my wort. Yeah, I crack the door, no big deal. And I have a COAlarm, and it never goes off. Im jus sayin. A lot of folks here are super concerned about something thats not really gonna hurt you. Crack a door, get a little ventilation. Oh, and Relax, Have a Homebrew!!

On commercial construction jobs where they are anal about safety, guess how they dry out the building when the roof goes on. They seal it up with plastic and crank up the propane heaters/jets. All whilst people are working. There is/should be instructions on the required sq ft of ventilation for the burner. A shop I used to work in had a huge propane heater (close to 300k btus), I was very surprised when I found out how little ventilation in required.

You only wake up dead once !

yeahfairly said:

My water heater, Thermador stove, and two gas burning fireplaces are all propane. At deer camp my indoor lights, stove and refrigerator / freezer are all propane. It isn't the fuel it's the burner. Outdoor grills and outdoor turkey fryer burners are produced cheaper and less efficient than the burners produced for use indoors. Buy a good quality burner designed for indoor use, keep it clean and in good working order and brew all you want inside!

Click to expand...

And I'd be willing to bet that all your deer camp appliances have flues that vent to the outside too. As you point out, there's a difference between an indoor appliance and an outdoor appliance. Still, I'd be extremely hesitant to use a propane burner indoors.

A good exhaust fan, over the burner, and a fresh air intake, window or door open a bit. Add a CO detector and you should be safe. Keep the burner a couple of feet away from flammable objects.

If you're lucky, we in the EMS field we call this job security. If you're not, the coroner calls it job security. I'm so new to brewing, I can't offer a ounce of advice, but I would head back to the drawing board on this one. If not for you, for your family.

If Grim comes by for a visit, chances are he's not going to be asking for a beer. At least give someone here on the forum your next of kin phone number.

As an EMT I fully understand your concern. I am sure you have been in a commercial kitchen with a gas range and 10 high btu burners running at once. The thing that keeps them safe is the exhaust fan and the non flammable surface behind the range. I don't have a need to run a burner indoors, my garage works well. But if my only choice was to freeze or make beer indoors, I would consider it.

If you go with a heatstick all the second guessing would really done. It would be safer for indoor use and you'd save on propane.

DrunkleJon said:

Firstly I believe using a burner indoors, or even in a garage is illegal. All fire safety arguments aside, there is the carbon monoxide issues from above. As an example, using my LP burner in my garage this winter with the door half closed, started getting a little dizzy and lightheaded. Opened that door right up and left the garage for a while. Do not mess around with monoxide poisioning. Scary stuff.

If you decide to go this route, and I highly reccomend against using an outdoor burner indoors, think through your ventilation thoroughly and take whatever percautions you have decided on and at least double them. Make sure you have at least two points open (doors, windows) to outside, with noticeable air flow between them and preferably add in fans, etc. Humidity will be an issue. Mold, peeling paint, electronics damage may occur. And for the love of all things beery, if you start to feel funny in any way shut off the heat and get the hell out of there for a while.

All in all it is a really bad idea. Especially if you have a high output regulator. Do not mess around when it comes to the safety of yourself an those that live with/around you.

Also, if you can't tell I feel strongly about this. Be safe.

Click to expand...

malweth said:

Yes it is dangerous and illegal for fire safety, but if the CO was getting to you, you need to adjust your equipment. Propane burns clean and a car starting up in the garage will produce a much, much more significant CO spike than a single propane burner w/ decent ventillation (garage with door open).

I would never burn inside the house. OTOH, brewing in my high ceilinged garage, near the center of the (open) bay door, with a fan or decent wind ventillation... well the risk is extremely low.

Ref: http://www.propane101.com/carbonmonoxideandpropane.htm

Click to expand...

Both of these are true. If you're in a garage with a high ceiling, the doors open, and a fan, you should be fine. I would never brew inside the house, unless I was using my stove. The propane burners we use a too big, and pose too much risk.

Toga said:

I honestly cannot believe the OP posted this and this posting commanded this many long responses to something that requires a minimal amount of common sense and or a minimal amount of intelligence.

To the OP......... If you have to ask others if this is OK, you should really consider another hobby.

Click to expand...

He's posted things similar to this before...

2 threads on this topic currently. I just posted in the other:
indoor-brewing-options

Two hours ago not even an hour from where I live. Doesn't say how, but the threat is real.

http://www.waff.com/story/24045810/1-dead-1-taken-to-the-hospital-from-carbon-monoxide-poisoning

I might be missing something but every commercial kitchen I've been in uses multiple massive gas burners running full force for ten hours at a time.

Are we talking about some different kind of gas?