Blichmann top tier + march pump + therminator configuration help!

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julian81

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Hey guys,

Been brewing on my top tier system from Blichmann for just about a month now (in fact I brewed every weekend on it in March) and LOVE it. I got myself a March pump and a therminator along with the necessary mounting brackets.

I'm sitting here reading the instructions, and looking at my setup, trying to figure out how I'm going to mount this and get it all setup. I think I need some help.

Here's the current setup. I have it 2 burner tiers. 1 on top for the HLT, a shelf in the middle for the MLT and the 2nd burner tier at the very bottom for the kettle. It's all gravity fed currently.

I'd like to lower the MLT to perhaps the same level as the BK and use the pump to recirculate the wort (vorlauf) as well as transfer it to the kettle. This would have the added advantage of lowering the shelf tier so I can easily stand over it and dough-in and mix at standing height. Then I could lower the HLT burner and remove my need for a stool which I use to stand on while filling the HLT from the hose. It's also less height for a 10 gallon pot of boiling water to fall (if that should ever happen).

Now if I do that...I'm not sure where to mount the pump and therminator or how that's going to work. The therminator instruction manual says it has to be below the brew kettle and at the same level (or lower) than the lowest point of the fermentor. Really? I've seen a few demos of the top tier in videos even by John Blichmann and the therminator is mounted to the brew stand midway up () Granted this is just a demo showing you the various options, brackets etc...but does the therminator really need to be at the same level or lower than the lowest point of the fermentor as described in the manual? It seems like if that's the case, that would defeat the purpose of having it mountable to the stand since some people might want to use a conical which obviously cannot be moved very easily, or lifted to different heights like a better bottle can.

With that said, I'm thinking of placing the pump under the brew kettle with the "out" facing up, and the therminator somewhere next to it or slightly above it.

What do you guys think? I've been trying to find videos/pics of similar setups but falling short. I'm not exactly sure how to do this...

Additionally, do I need to worry about the fact I pumped hot wort through the pump to the kettle, then after boil sending it back through the pump to the therminator? Is this considered OK? or is there some intermediary pump cleaning step involved? I'm thinking since it's going through the pump at boiling, there should be no issues but just wanted to double check.

Thanks in advance for your help!

--julian
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The pump should be mounted somewhat lower than the outlet port on whatever it is you are pumping from to aid priming. It should make little difference where the therminator is positioned on the output side of the pump. Keep all hoses as short as conveniently possible, especially on the suction side. Use large diameter hoses, tubing and fittings for optimum performance. When configuring a rig from scratch as you are doing, it's always a good idea to do some trials with water only. Make adjustments as needed.
 
thanks for the response catt22. So I definitely will be positioning the pump under the kettle, so the wort can flow freely into the pump for priming. As far as the therminator though, the instructions say one thing, but you're saying it doesn't matter where it's positioned?
 
To address the sanitation issue: I usually recirculate boiling wort through my pump and chiller about 10 minutes prior to flame out. That is adequate for sanitizing the previously cleaned equipment.

Mounting: Once primed the pump can push the wort through the therminator regardless of where it is mounted. It will be harder to prime the system if the pump and therminator are connected before your try to prime, especially if the therminator is located above the pump. Also, the longer the lines and the higher the rise the more the pump will have to work. mount everything low and in a clear path towards the wort's destination and you will be in better shape.
 
thanks for the response catt22. So I definitely will be positioning the pump under the kettle, so the wort can flow freely into the pump for priming. As far as the therminator though, the instructions say one thing, but you're saying it doesn't matter where it's positioned?

It should not matter where you position the chiller so long as it is on the output side of the pump. The concern is all about the ease of priming the pump.
 
OK I will attempt some configurations and try a dry (or rather wet) run with water and see how it goes. Thanks for the input guys!
 
Julian can you post pictures of your final configuration? I just got my gear and am trying to figure out the same things. Also, what pump did you buy? Are you happy with it?
 
Julian can you post pictures of your final configuration? I just got my gear and am trying to figure out the same things. Also, what pump did you buy? Are you happy with it?

I'll post some pics in the next few days/weeks. I just got back from Europe and my camera is full of pics.

I ended up getting a March pump. Love it! highly recommended.
 
Here's some pics of my set up
It's nice to have the mash tun at a lower level. I gravity feed the therminator. Also upgraded the wheels on it to lawnmower wheels.

toptier1.JPG


toptier2.JPG


toptier3.JPG


toptier4.JPG
 
ruffdeezy, those pics are eerily similar to mine. I think we have the exact same setup, although I haven't yet installed an outlet box, which is next on my list.

edit: even down to the camlocks and silicone tubing, and placement of the shelves. great minds think alike :) LOVE the top tier!
 
ruffdeezy, I don't suppose you could post the parts list for how you constructed that outlet box?
 
The box was easy to make, I actually thought it would be tough and was worried about it. I got one basic light switch, a waterproof light switch cover, the grey electrical box, and an extension cord. Cut the end off the extension cord and the march pump plug in, wired the black wires from each to the switch, the white wires together, then green wires to the ground screw. I drilled a couple holes through the back of the electrical box and used the extra top tier hardware to mount it securely in the t slot.

Screen shot 2011-06-29 at 8.26.14 PM.png


waterproofswitch.jpg


electricalbox.jpg
 
Sweet! I'm headed to the hardware store now, lol. Hopefully they're still open. Thanks a bunch man!
 
Thanks again ruffdeezy. I actually picked up the exact same parts and will begin my build tomorrow most likely. I got to HD just before they closed :)
 
Yup, I will as soon as I get this outlet switch installed and unload euro pics from my camera. Also, I'm not totally happy with the placement of my plate chiller, but I don't want to remove literally every burner just to reconfigure. I think that's my only complaint about the top tier. Reconfiguring requires lifting those massive burners off of the brew stand just to slot anything that's below it into different positions.
 
Switch is installed and working. This is going to make powering the pump SO much easier!
 
It feels pretty good making something like this work although it is pretty basic, I was quite proud of myself never having doing anything electrical at all before. I didn't want to bother with unplugging it all the time so I built my switch right away. Hoping to brew again this weekend, have been done any brewing the past 3 weekends.
 
Yeah it does feel good. I don't do much electrical work/projects either and I will admit, today's little project is probably why I should never work with electricity again. I foolishly forgot to unplug my extension cord when I went to cut the female plug end off. The breaker tripped and the wire EXPLODED in my hand. Luckily it was plugged into the ONLY GFCI outlet in my garage. For some reason the others aren't. I didn't even get shocked, but the lights going out, and the loud POP and the explosion in front of me was terrifying. I actually know better, but my extension cord was all wrapped up on a shelf, it looked like it was unplugged. Can't be too careful.

Terrifying. But I'm OK, and the project is complete and it works flawlessly. Just happy to be alive at this point, lol.
 
Thanks for posting this discussion and the pictures. I brewed on my TT last night for the first time and really liked it. I have some bugs to work out but was curious how to mount the pump and a Therminator (if I move away from the IC).
 
Ruffdeezy/julian81/others, I just assembled my TopTier this weekend. I appreciate the pics you posted because that helped me decide on the configuration I wanted to start with. A few questions I have are:

1. Does it get very hot under the high mounted HLT? I am a little concerned about my plastic cooler MLT lid being about 6 inches below the bottom of the burner ring.

2. Where is a good place to purchase the camlocks? Those look very handy. Do the camlocks come with the fittings that attach to the valve on the MLT and Pump etc? If you have a parts list for those, I would really appreciate it. I have the exact same set-up as the two of you.

3. I have never used a March Pump before. Any helpful hints I should be aware of? I current have my "out" pointing straight up because I read on another thread that it operates better in that configuration. Is that how yours is aligned?

Thanks again for your help.
 
ruffdeezy, take the 4 phillips screws out and flip that pump head 180* so the outlet is on the top...will help with priming if you happen to have any issues. The way its setup now with the inlet on top, it traps an air pocket in the pump head even though liquid get inside it. Check out this posting to better explain it :D
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/short-pump-orientation-mounting-tutorial-306814/
 
I no longer own the Top Tier, but I loved it and will answer your questions. I'm now on a single tier, with 2 pump, all electric setup.

Ruffdeezy/julian81/others, I just assembled my TopTier this weekend. I appreciate the pics you posted because that helped me decide on the configuration I wanted to start with. A few questions I have are:

1. Does it get very hot under the high mounted HLT? I am a little concerned about my plastic cooler MLT lid being about 6 inches below the bottom of the burner ring.

I did not have any issues with the Igloo cooler lid being in close proximity to the HLT burner. It might have gotten warm, but it was never an issue.

kedash said:
2. Where is a good place to purchase the camlocks? Those look very handy. Do the camlocks come with the fittings that attach to the valve on the MLT and Pump etc? If you have a parts list for those, I would really appreciate it. I have the exact same set-up as the two of you.

I purchased mine all from proflowdynamics.com but bargainfittings.com also sells them

kedash said:
3. I have never used a March Pump before. Any helpful hints I should be aware of? I current have my "out" pointing straight up because I read on another thread that it operates better in that configuration. Is that how yours is aligned?

Like Walter stated above, unscrew the front housing, and rotate it around so that the outlet is positioned at 12 o'clock and the inlet at 6 o'clock. That is the configuration I had on my top tier, and I had absolutely no issues with priming or pumping.

Hope this helps!

Julian
 
Hey
1. Does it get very hot under the high mounted HLT? I am a little concerned about my plastic cooler MLT lid being about 6 inches below the bottom of the burner ring.

It does get a bit hot, when I use my big mash tun and am heating the the sparge water i put some foil on to of the mash tun or on the bottom of the top burner so the mash tun doesn't get too hot. Not a huge issue.

2. Where is a good place to purchase the camlocks? Those look very handy. Do the camlocks come with the fittings that attach to the valve on the MLT and Pump etc? If you have a parts list for those, I would really appreciate it. I have the exact same set-up as the two of you.

I bought most of my camlocks from bargainfittings.com. Farmhouse brewing supply has them too. Actually most places have them now. Bargainfittings is probably the best.

3. I have never used a March Pump before. Any helpful hints I should be aware of? I current have my "out" pointing straight up because I read on another thread that it operates better in that configuration. Is that how yours is aligned?

March pumps are super easy, just let them fill up with liquid before turning it on. Maybe wait 10 seconds after letting the liquid flow into it. I was a little worried the first time, but I just watch a couple youtube videos on them before giving it a go. Just practice with water for a while first.
 
Thanks Julian81, Ruffdeezy and zmurda. I appreciate the help.

I ended up going with the Blichmann fittings because they have that ring around them that won't get hot.

Here is a picture of my Blichmann TopTier assembled. I haven't ordered the Therminator yet, but I plan to. Until then I can just keep using my immersion chiller.

TopTier.jpg
 
If you're referring to the camlock quick disconnects, I got those from proflowdynamics.com, but eyedoctodd is correct; you can also order them from bargainfittings.com. I wasn't a huge fan of the camlocks personally which is why I sold mine. If you have a bit more cash and want something really slick, I'd recommend the stainless quick disconnects from morebeer.com. I have those now and they are NICE, and a lot easier to use.
 
I hate the B3 qd's with a passion. I always seem to have issues with them actually engaging. I much prefer the snap lock/camlocks.
 
julian81 said:
Yeah it does feel good. I don't do much electrical work/projects either and I will admit, today's little project is probably why I should never work with electricity again. I foolishly forgot to unplug my extension cord when I went to cut the female plug end off. The breaker tripped and the wire EXPLODED in my hand. Luckily it was plugged into the ONLY GFCI outlet in my garage. For some reason the others aren't. I didn't even get shocked, but the lights going out, and the loud POP and the explosion in front of me was terrifying. I actually know better, but my extension cord was all wrapped up on a shelf, it looked like it was unplugged. Can't be too careful.

Terrifying. But I'm OK, and the project is complete and it works flawlessly. Just happy to be alive at this point, lol.

Julian You only need one gfci outlet on a circuit. The other outlets wired in after the gfci are also protected. If you press the test switch on the gfci and plug something into another outlet do you still have power? This is one way to test if your garage is wired correctly.
 
I hate the B3 qd's with a passion. I always seem to have issues with them actually engaging. I much prefer the snap lock/camlocks.

For those that have the B3 QD's, do you have to have a coupler to put them on your march pump? It looks like B3 only has male threaded QDs but the march pump is also male threaded.
 
I finally mounted a switch to control my march pump. I came up with an alternative idea of mounting the switch down low. This eliminated the need to run wires up the main post and keep things looking as clean as possible. As you will see in these pictures, I mounted the water-resistant switch box to the shelf arms that support the mashtun shelf. I cut the cord that came with the March Pump and saved the male cord end to come out of the box. When I brew, I will attach an extension cord to this male plug end. Having it short and not reaching the ground will keep it out of the way when I move the brewstand and keep the connection off the ground during brew sessions. Anyway, I just wanted to post this in case any of you found it to be a good idea that you could use.

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photo (2).jpg


photo (1).jpg
 
sorry to resurrect an old thread. Is it necessary to acquire additional t-bars for the mounting of the chiller and the pump?
 

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