about to brew my first cider batch, some questions

So i went to the brew store the other day and there was a nice lady there that helped me out getting some stuff. I bought:

Bucket
Carboy
airlock
acid blend
Pectic enzyme
yeast nutrient
montrachet yeast
and campden tablets

I have seen this recipe

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f25/man-i-love-apfelwein-14860/

I will be leaving town in three weeks and back three weeks after that so i want the batch to take about 6 weeks. Also, I want the highest ABV i can get in that time. so im pretty much wondering how i should alter the recipie to take advantage of the time and higher ABV

Whats the deal with the acid blend, Pectic enzyme and yeast nutrient? do i not need any of these?

also do i need to start out in the bucket or can i go straight to the carboy? I figure this might be better for my first time. I plan on just putting it back in the apple juice bottles when its done.

the lady told me to put a campton tab for each gallon of juice, should i do this or no?

thanks

acid blend and pectic enzyme aren't needed for apfelwein. Acid blend is to make it tarter, and pectic enzyme is for grapes to help clear out the must so it's not cloudy. The yeast nutrient will help suppress the rhino farts. You can use either the bucket or the carboy, it's up to you. cider and wine doesn't foam up as much as beer does, so headspace isn't as critical. You also don't need to add campden tablets unless you're buying unpasteurized juice.

You seem to be mistaken with time = alcohol content. The yeast will work to it's maximum tolerance and stop, all it needs is time and sugar. The more sugar you add, the higher it goes. It may take a week, or 4 weeks, but it'll get there. Also, if you're bottling in the apple juice bottles, I hope you don't want it carbonated. Non-carbonated bottles can and will explode if subjected to pressure.

ok thanks.

So should a add a bit more then 2lbs of sugar? how much more?

how much yeast nutrient?

and yes i was not planning on carbonating this batch. I want to see how it is then maybe carbonate some of the next batch.

you should run back to the supply store and pick up a hydrometer. You can use that to gauge your alcohol content. 3lbs of brown sugar brought my 5 gallons of cider up to 1.066 about 8.5-9% ABV if fermented dry.

If you're interested in the Apfelwein, why don't you just trust the recipe for starters? There're a few thousand brewers in front of you who have, before they started tweaking.
My first attempt is 3 weeks down, starting to slow and I'm expecting at least another 3 weeks before I can move on it. There's your 6 weeks.
Am expecting it to get around 9%ABV; couldn't get strain of yeast Ed uses so only variation to his recipe was my yeast.
You can go with the Edwort recipe straight into the carboy, keeps it simpler. Won't need Campden, nutrient, or pectic; you'll use them all another time so no loss there. Bucket too.
curbdawg's hydrometer suggestion's valid

ok I will pick up a hydrometer.

should i stick with the 2lbs of corn sugar or bump it up to 2.5?

Just go with the recipe as it is. Don't try to make it a higher %ABV. Its the the amount of alcohol in the drink that matters its how it tastes. If you are doing this to get drunk faster just find some everclear and add 1 quart of that to 3 quarts of apple juice.

Don't add the extra sugar the first time. Just follow it and see what you learn. It will be worth it.

Yeah I'm a college kid making trying to make a drink for my firends and I. Should hopfully pick up the juice and sugar today, then get it going tonight. After I put the airlock on do i pretty much just set it and forget it? Try and move it around as little as possible? dosnt need light does it? When its done should i be able to pour it from the carboy to the containers or should I syphon it?

You must siphon it, if you pour you will be introducing oxygen to the brew which = cardboard taste or worse.

so my local safeway doesnt have dextrose, where can i get it? costco wont have it will they?

can i substitute another kind of sugar? brown sugar was mentioned

you'll get dextrose at the same place you'll get an hydrometer.
but yeah you can go with brown sugar if you want.

curbdowg, how long did yours take with the 3lbs?

ok so i scored some rebottled tree top at the safeway accross the street for like 3.19 a gallon.

I wont be able to make it to the brew store for a for like a week but i need to get this going now. What sugar and how much should i use as a substiute?

Any sugar will work, using a wine yeast will ferment it all out. I have tried brown sugar, regular table sugar, dextrose, just stick to the 2 lbs. I could never notice any difference, the yeast you use will have much more of an impact.

Kahuna dude, you've got CHIMAY ON TAP?!
is it some kind of clone recipe?!

alright i got it all in there. well except for a little bit of the apple jouce. Used about 2lbs of cane sugar. The yeast is chillin at te bottom, its definatly started to get cloudy.

so do i have to be pretty worried about keeping this thing still or can i move it around if i need to?

also what else should i be expecting to see happen?

No, you can move it around if you need to, but why? Just leave it alone for awhile and it should be fine. Why didn't you go to the homebrew store yet to buy a hydrometer and some dextrose like we suggested? What kind of yeast are you using?

Because unless i biked there i wasnt going to have a way to get there for another week at least.

right now its foaming some more and some air is actually getting pushed past the airlock from inside the carboy. Is this supposed to happen? i can take a picture if needed

if you mean that it is bubbling, rejoice, your juice is fermenting. The air that is pushed past the airlock is CO2, carbon dioxide, think of it as yeasts poo.

not poo...just gas

felix said:

rejoice, your juice is fermenting.

Click to expand...

hell yeah I'll drink to that. In 5 1/2 weeks that is

two pounds straight cane sugar... and you makeing this for you an your buddies... hummm... well good luck and i leave it at that... i am putting up a post in a bit you might want to check out... next time dont rush things, get your hydrometer, your dextrose.... i never did here what kind of yeast your useing... I know your going away for a three weeks but i hope you have sombody to check your airlock for evaporation... although now that i think about it i have had to top mine off ever... but you should keep it checked on at least... good luck that all i say

Cheers

could you give me some idea as to why cane sugar was a bad idea?

yeah i was kind of rushed to get it going

Montrachet yeast.

Table level cane sugar is highly prosessed for maximum sugar content in lowest mass possiable, so that is easily teansportable... Even brown sugar which i prefer is unfortunatly only slightly less processed, most companies prefering to just make regular table sugar as stated above and then add dark mollasses to it for the brow coloring... this causes a problem... the yeast get kind of over whemled in my experience and the achohal fermented in just like the sugar its made from, the best achohal content from the lowest mass possiable... so pure cane sugar in my experience is a contributing factor in lower achohal content and a very grainy(rough almost sand like) texture in the cider.... this does improve with age however.... dextrose or other brewing sugars, or ever unprocessed raw sugar, or honey or molasses are more complex sugars which haven't been processed the beans out of simply for the reason that it is lgither to ship that way, as with the case of dextrose and maltose (common brewing sugars boughts from brewers supplies) they are processed specifically for brewing, or if you buy dextrose from a store is is atleast processed less or in a differnt way from regular table cane sugar... the chemical process that most processed table sugar go through is called gloucouse chainning, its where chemincall the little sugar molocules which are made organicaly are linked togather to form larger and larger blocks to make longer and longer chains of sugar molcules and thus leave everything else behind, like much of sugars natral balencing compounds and the other things in natral sugar which make it taste better, ferment better, and basically better for you... some scientist believe that high content sugar processing is the cause of the rise of diabeaties in the human population...that the human body was never ment to process this pure of a form of sugar.... but i digress, this chemical processing of cane sugar unfortulatly is the cause of its poorer (but my no means inadaquate or dangerous or even signifcantly worese then other sugars) profromance and contriubte to its taste defects... also table cane sugar is just bad for you.... but thats not much to say about things when your drinking hard cdier is it?

Cheers

Personally, I think Jack is overreacting, while it will definitely produce different flavors than EdWorts intended dextrose, it won't produce any bad flavors. You might find that you even like the different flavors white sugar can produce. Do not worry about all, this is still early in your brewing career, you can always experiment with other methods, ingredients, and recipes. This whole hobby is about personalization and experimentation, try new things out till you like them, then do it again!

I agree with Tusch. I have had to use cane sugar before and the results were not unpleasant. I also frequently use light brown sugar with excellent results. Go ahead and experiment. Find what YOU like. If was easy and simple everybody would be doing it

Alright, we will see what happends. So far this thing going like crazy. Maybe 3 big bubbles through the airlock every second.

(shruggs) this is true i do tend to be an alarmist about such things, and it is important as those above have said that you find what you like that is why people home brew any way, if you that wasnt the case the you would just go out and buy a 6er of woodchucks or another store brand of hard cider and just drink that... i hope that my zeal did not discourage you on your brew in any way, we all start out the same when we start brewing, we use differnt ingredents and differnt equipment and differnt ideas but we all start out to have fun and try to create something new and differnt and unique pruely to ourselves, an more often then not (if you were like me) we dont know anything about brewing then the fact that we like the end result. I just like to talk sometimes, dont take it to heart much, unless if very important. and good luck Nick

Cheers

At two pounds for 5 gallons, I would be very surprised if any differences could be noted. Off flavors start being pronounced when you go over 30% ferment able sugars.

Adding sugar to cider won't do anything except give it a high alcohol taste to it. Personally, when I want to taste that burn, I'll drink the hard stuff. Aging does diminish it somewhat though, which is a good thing. nickmpower, I'd suggest reading howtobrew.com. It's more focused on beer, but it will answer a lot of your questions as to what is happening with the fermentation.

BrewinJack, seriously you need to look into using paragraphs. That WALL OF TEXT is very hard to read and I ended up just skipping over it.

so this stuff should be more then done when i get back, but what are signs to look for to know thats its done? any bubbles per minute guideline?

also i plan to carb some in 2 liter soda bottles. How much sugar should i be looking to add per gallon? about how long will it take a 70 degrees

also, will I be able to do a full ferment of this stuff in the brewing bucket that i have or do i need to stick to carboys?

The bottle you use does not change the amount of sugar. 1 oz per gallon. There is no bubble per minute ratio. Get an SG and then 2 days later get another one. If it hasn't changed its done.

Yes you can do a full ferment in the bucket. Just siphon it to the bottling bucket when you are ready to bottle. 2 liter bottles is a lot of cider to drink at once but it will carbonate. Give it 3-7 weeks at 70 degs. You can feel how much its carbed by squeezing the bottle. when they are really hard you can put one in the fridge and let it sit for 48 hours then try it and see if its carbed enough.

All these questions have been answered in this forum. Most in this thread. It really helps if you read some before asking. We all like to help but its nice to see the person showing some effort and not just expecting it all handed to them. Just my opinion YMMV.

get back on suday, cant wait!!! With the 28g/ sugar per serving of the juice (about 3g more then the normal i think) and the 5 cups of cane sugar i put in, I calculated that the avb will be at least %11. (this is all an approximation and assumes that cane sugar changes the avb as much as dextrose). I will need to move it from the floor to elevate it slightly, hopefully i will have very steady hands and will not disturb the sediment at the bottom too much.

For my next brew i want to try a quicker ferment. Maybe aim for like %4-%5. I am going to use less sugar and crash it for a slightly sweeter taste. I am also going to try beer yeast. Can anyone recomend a SG to crash it at? I dont want it to be super sweet, I tried some store bought cider and thought it was a little too sweet. I will research it also...

I put up a couple of 5 gallon batches experimenting with notty/safale 04/ coopers. Fresh pressed juice @1.055. The Notty is now at 1.015 so it is approx 5%. I did not add any sugar. It is sweet and has a strong apple taste. It reminds me of the old farm ciders years ago which I enjoy. I don't have any room in the fridge so I stuck it outside a few hours ago and buried it in the snow bank. I'm going to rack it of tomorrow night and then will do it once more. Hell Maybe I"ll just leave outside buried and draw it off as I want it. In fact I'll have to until I get room! I'll keep you posted

In the US, cider and apple juice are virtually identical (except for marketing purposes). For a good beer yeast, pretty much any dry yeast will work. Munton's or anything put out by Danstar is good, since they tend to end with a high FG anyways.

Also, when you move the carboy up for racking, do it a day or so beforehand, so you give the sediment time to settle out again.

well I siphoned it off yesterday. I took a sip and didnt really like it. I put it in the fridge and tried it later. long story short, my friends and i went through 2 gallons of the stuff