Please help solve 1st All-Grain debacle

I would really appreciate some opinions on this one. I'll be as short as possible.

-brewed my first All grain beer, a centennial blonde ale, pitched the nottingham yeast and had no fermentation for the first 2.5 days.

-then dediced to re-pitch with a pack of Windsor that I had laying around

-fermentation started within 12 hours after the second pack being pitched

-long fermentation after that, like 5 or 6 days of airlock activity which seemed like a lot for a blonde

-I go to bottle today and things don't seem right. Here are the symptoms:

* supposed to finish at 1.008 and it's like 1.001
* super thin lining of Krausen on bucket- much thinner than usual
*TONS of sediment- I think a lot of yeast
*Super cloudy beer- left thick sediment deposits on the glass I sampled from
*Smelled a little grapey/cidery but not crazy strong or anything

I have a theory that I'm curious about I've gotten obsessed with brewing and because all my beer equipment was being used, I used my 6 gallon wine fermenting bucket.

It's just like the beer bucket except 1 gallon larger. Same lid/airlock. I'm anal about my cleaning and sanitizing but I'm wondering if trace amounts of metabisulfate or sorbate or something from doing wine, caused these problems.

I tasted the beer and it tastes very plain and a little grapey. What do you think? Give it a chance in the bottle??

Too late actually I primed and bottled already, but what would be your best guess??

Yes I think the wine bucket messed up your brew. Wine yeast must have been in the bucket because wine yeast would ferment all of the sugars as evidenced by the finish gravity reading. It may not be the best beer you ever made but it sure will make you tipsy.

I think you should keep the wine equipment separated from the beer at all times because I think it is almost impossible to not have this happen again.

WBC said:

Yes I think the wine bucket messed up your brew. Wine yeast must have been in the bucket because wine yeast would ferment all of the sugars as evidenced by the finish gravity reading. It may not be the best beer you ever made but it sure will make you tipsy.

I think you should keep the wine equipment separated from the beer at all times because I think it is almost impossible to not have this happen again.

Click to expand...

Do you mind elaborating though?? If the wine yeast ate all the sugars, isn't that still fermentation? This batch did nothing for almost 2.5 days and that's why I repitched.

I will definitely never mix again but how could there still be wine yeast in a bucket that was washed well and soaked in sanitizer before it was used for the beer?

Could other factors involving the wine bucket have screwed this up? Like the sorbate or metabisulfate? Thanks!

I use plastic carboys to brew wine and beer in and have never had issues with cross contamination. I clean really well using a bleach soak for days before rinsing with hot water and sanatizing. I use common airlocks and bungs also in addition to all my other brewing tools.

Are there others that think there is a chance of cross-contamination here??

Even Notty does not attenuate to that degree. What was your OG. If it was anywhere near 1.040 or above then I would suspect some other yeast took hold and fermented your beer. Hmmm seems like wine yeast or maybe champagne yeast maybe.

Or a wild yeast or bacteria. Since you had such a long lag time, I wonder if some wild yeast took hold. Windsor should be less attenuative, so it's definitely not the Windsor that did this!

If using the same equipment for wine and beer cause issues like this, they haven't for me in my 5 years doing both. Just make sure to sanitize well!

dontman said:

Even Notty does not attenuate to that degree. What was your OG. If it was anywhere near 1.040 or above then I would suspect some other yeast took hold and fermented your beer. Hmmm seems like wine yeast or maybe champagne yeast maybe.

Click to expand...

That's what stinks. I don't have an OG because I broke my hydrometer in the middle of the brew. Wouldn't it take a decent amount of yeast to do that? And I can guarantee there were not yeasties from a previous wine batch just laying in the fermenter. This baby was cleaned and soaked in sanitizer.

BUT, here is the other big mystery that I can't believe I forgot to mention.

This went in the fermenter as 5.5 gallons and I only had enough volume to fill 36 bottles:cross: WTF right? How did I lose all that volume?? Where did it go? I mean, where did the liquid go???

Come on, some folks must have a guess? Help me figure this out. Please!

2.5 days of no yeast action would give a wild yeast or bacteria plenty of time to take hold. I just listened to a Brewing Network Podcast with some guy that works for a wine yeast company Llamond(sp?) and he's said that Wine yeast can not attenuate beer as far a brewers actually think. Wine yeast can not ferment maltotrios and therefor will never attenuate as well as actual beer yeast. However he talked about an enzyme that wine makers use that assist with attenuation.

In your wine making do you use those enzymes that break down starches and sugars for increased fermentation? I forget what they're called but that could help your standard beer yeast over attenuate.

But what about the loss in volume?? Can someone please give some rationale for how I lost 1.5 gallons of beer while it just sat in the bucket??

mangine77 said:

But what about the loss in volume?? Can someone please give some rationale for how I lost 1.5 gallons of beer while it just sat in the bucket??

Click to expand...

Unless you have teenagers or roommates, I don't think it's possible to lose beer out of a bucket.

YooperBrew said:

Unless you have teenagers or roommates, I don't think it's possible to lose beer out of a bucket.

Click to expand...

I know what you're saying but I'm telling you 110% that 5.5 gallons went into this bucket and 36 12 oz. bottles came out! There was a lot of sediment and a larger than normal yeast cake (because I re-pitched).

Is it possible that it was absorbed by the yeast cake? I'm sure it's not, but what else could have happened?

mangine77 said:

I know what you're saying but I'm telling you 110% that 5.5 gallons went into this bucket and 36 12 oz. bottles came out! There was a lot of sediment and a larger than normal yeast cake (because I re-pitched).

Is it possible that it was absorbed by the yeast cake? I'm sure it's not, but what else could have happened?

Click to expand...

What happened is that you had a ton of sediment, I guess. Cold break, hot break, proteins, yeast, etc, all settled out as trub and when you racked off, it got left behind.

I know one time I had a HUGE trub layer, and only got about 4.25 gallons out. I'm not sure how many bottles that is- but it was a lot less than I was expecting! It seems unlikely that you would lose over 2 gallons, but apparently you did.

1. Did you hydrate the yeast? If so at what temp was the water?
2. What temp did you pitch?
3. What temp did you ferment at?
4. Are you sure you had a good seal?

Poobah58 said:

1. Did you hydrate the yeast? If so at what temp was the water?
2. What temp did you pitch?
3. What temp did you ferment at?
4. Are you sure you had a good seal?

Click to expand...

1. Yes, definitely
2. 68
3. 66
4. Seemed to fit well. Could the extra space of being a 6.5 gallon wine bucket have an effect???

I did also do a wine in that same bucket only a couple of weeks before this beer but again, it was cleaned well and soaked in sanitizer. I will definitely never do anything in that bucket again, but I was out of fermenters because I have so many beers going

If anyone that replied to this thread was curious, chalk another one up for Don't dump you beer.

Tried one last night and it's certainly not GREAT, but it's drinkable. I'm 100% convinced the problems were caused by using the fermenter that I use for wine. I will never mix equipment again.

The beer has a hint of wine taste to it. Very hard to describe, but actually not too bad. I'll give it another couple weeks in the bottle and check it again.

But it's really taught me a lesson to bottle your beer no matter what, and give it a chance. This beer looked SO bad when I was bottling and just after a few days, it has started to clear.

Thanks for all the advice. I'm now a big believer in bottling and giving the beer a chance even if you think it's ruined.

is that "taste" dryness? sounds like you need to work on your cleaning and sanitizing. remember that plastic can get little scratches in it that yeast and bacteria can live in safely away from sanitizers.

if you dump some sodium percarbonate (oxyclean) in there with hot water and let it sit for a few hours, all those little bastards will die!

mangine77 said:

I know what you're saying but I'm telling you 110% that 5.5 gallons went into this bucket and 36 12 oz. bottles came out! There was a lot of sediment and a larger than normal yeast cake (because I re-pitched).

Is it possible that it was absorbed by the yeast cake? I'm sure it's not, but what else could have happened?

Click to expand...

Are you sure that you didn't put more than 12 ounces in each bottle?