Should i use Cane sugar at all?

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germanmade84

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Just wondering if i screwed up my belgian strong dark ale by adding 2 cups of cane sugar to the boil? I also added 1 lb of belgian candy sugar.

Whats the thought?
 
No problem. It'll be a little stronger, probably 8-10 gravity points and ~1% ABV
 
Demerara sugar (raw cane) would've been better with it's light brown sugar laced with honey flavor. A bit more complexity than just adding ABV.
 
14# pilsner
1 lb spec B
1# amber belgian sugar
2 cups white cane sugar from the grocery store
 
Yup, it'll blow your bucket lid. 6 months in the bottle and it'll be awesome. Fantastic after 18 months.

No problem with white sugar in your Belgian, though I do agree there's an upper limit to the amount added.
 
I had a Dogfishead Raison D'Etre clone that called for belgan candi sugar. Did it twice, came out great. Next time I'm going to try using molassas instead. FYI, molassas, white cane sugar, light and dark brown sugar are all the same sugar molecule. The difference is in how much impurities are processed out. The impurities give it the flavor you're looking for. The darker, the more flavor. I believe belgian candi is beet sugar rather than cane sugar.
 
Light belgian candi sugar is a waste of fundage IMO. I just go white sugar substitution for the white candi sugar. Haven't tried the amber or darker candi sugar.

The Candi Syrup however is a different story. For the darker Dubbels and Dark Strongs, you can't beat the real D or D2 syrup that's sold in 1 lb jars. Well worth the added $6 to your brew. This really gives an authentic flavor thats really hard to get otherwise. I've tried some home made invert sugar on the stove that got close, but it's not quite there yet.
 
You're over 20% sugar, which is on the high end of normal for a tripel or BGS, and very very high for a BDSA. I suspect your beer will come out a bit thinner and more alcholic than you were expecting. Sugar, for the most part, is going to ferment completely out and not leave you with any body or flavor contribution. The belgian candi is the same way, except, as noted before, the darker syrups.
 
Honestly i was hoping for just more alcohol and nothing more so that is a win for me. I did a bel blond strong the next week and its more of a drink cause it tastes good beer. The bsda was just for the booze really.....
 
Just wondering if i screwed up my belgian strong dark ale by adding 2 cups of cane sugar to the boil? I also added 1 lb of belgian candy sugar.

Whats the thought?

Candy sugar is refined sucrose from sugar beets. Cane sugar is refined sucrose from sugar can. Assuming you are talking about the white varieties, they are chemically identical.
 
Refined (white) sugar is refined sugar, no matter the source. It should taste virtually the same whether its beet or cane sugar. The yeast will see either source the same...FOOD!!!

Now, less refined sugars or caramelized sugars are another story. Then there are nuances that can make it through to the beer.

Regular cane sugar is fine for increasing alcohol and dryness while reducing body in beer.
 
Oh, also, my comments before were wrong. I read that OP added two additional POUNDS of sugar, when in fact he just added 2 cups extra. You're probably fine, but yes, refined sugar is refined sugar is refined sugar. I use cane sugar in all my belgians, IIPAs, and for bottling.
 
You are fine.. 2 cups of sugar weigh about. 14 oz so you added less than 2 lbs.

Plain sugar is fine. As another poster mentioned something like turbinado does add a slight flavor addition.

Let this beer age and you will be very happy.
 
I just tryed a sample after 12 days in bottle.........it needs 6 months or so i agree. It tastes more like a belgian yeasted barley wine. I guess it should the abv is almost 12%! Im starting a post off this situation.
 
How long did you ferment it? If ot did not spend a lot of time in the fermenter then it will need plenty of time in the bottles.

Also a beer like that will need a couple of months in the bottles to get good. Set it aside and forget about it for a few months.
 
So can you guys elaborate more what flavors candi syrup, medium and dark candi sugar will impart?

Also, if you take a recipe with (pulling numbers out of the air) 6 lbs of amber malt extract and brew it along side a recipe with 6lbs of amber malt extract and 1 lb of white sugar, the second recipe will be drier? I don't see how adding the extra lb of sugar will give the beer less body and make more of the amber extract ferment out unless I am missing something (which I very well may be)

Thanks!
 
Dry is relative, not absolute.

Assuming sugar ferments completely, it becomes pure alcohol which is less dense than water (or finished beer), making the overall product less dense...but this effect is fairly small. Maybe you finish a point or two lower. The real shift is in the relative proportion of residual sugar / alcohol / density etc...boosting perceived dryness. That is to say, two beers with the same FG could be very different in terms of perceived dryness.
 
Also, if you take a recipe with (pulling numbers out of the air) 6 lbs of amber malt extract and brew it along side a recipe with 6lbs of amber malt extract and 1 lb of white sugar, the second recipe will be drier?

No.

This is commonly implied here, but not true. To make the beer drier, you'd need to drop a pound of amber malt (5# total) and REPLACE it with 1# of sugar in order to dry out the end result. (That's because amber extract generally has some crystal malt in it and other things that are less fermentable than plain sugar... plus you generally don't know the mash temp used to produce the extract, which may play a role as well.) Sugar being almost completely fermentable, it will drop your FG compared to the original recipe.. and supposedly that produces a "drier" beer, but that's a whole different thread.
 
No.

This is commonly implied here, but not true. To make the beer drier, you'd need to drop a pound of amber malt (5# total) and REPLACE it with 1# of sugar in order to dry out the end result. (That's because amber extract generally has some crystal malt in it and other things that are less fermentable than plain sugar... plus you generally don't know the mash temp used to produce the extract, which may play a role as well.) Sugar being almost completely fermentable, it will drop your FG compared to the original recipe.. and supposedly that produces a "drier" beer, but that's a whole different thread.

Scale of dryness:
5 lbs DME < 5 lbs DME + 1 lb sugar << 4 lbs DME + 1 lb Sugar

Again, it's a relative thing. So in the case of 5 lbs + 1 lb, you're essentially just adding pure alcohol, which would boost perceived dryness, even if FG is relatively unchanged.
 
Scale of dryness:
5 lbs DME < 5 lbs DME + 1 lb sugar << 4 lbs DME + 1 lb Sugar

Again, it's a relative thing. So in the case of 5 lbs + 1 lb, you're essentially just adding pure alcohol, which would boost perceived dryness, even if FG is relatively unchanged.

A more complete answer. Good point!
 
So what really happens over 6 months in a bottle that improves the taste?

Well, if you have a clean ferment it'll be good in a normal timeframe (weeks).

Those Belgian yeasts can get pretty crazy (high temps) so a lot of times they'll throw off fusels. Time helps those to mellow.

But, lots of high-gravity belgians are simple with lots of alcohol, so time helps mellow the alcohol heat and blend the subtleties of the flavor.
 
So what really happens over 6 months in a bottle that improves the taste?


Belgian yeasts act a lot like wine yeasts. They continue to evolve with age. The flavors blend and improve with age just like a good wine.

Also a. lot of Belgian brews are pretty high alcohol brews and they always do better with age.
 
I disagree that a carefully made Belgian Tripel could be good in weeks. Drinkable, obviously but you will notice the hot alcohol and the flavors will be rather obtuse. You can pitch a ton of healty yeast at the perfect temp, aerate to the proper levels, carefully control fermentation temps, and give proper time and conditions in primary and secondary. And you will still notice the flavors evolve and greatly improve with age. I get the feeling like sometimes people don't keep any around past 6 months and haven't seen what 18 months can do for a Tripel. Just my two pennies.
 
That's good input solbes, I agree completely.

I simply meant that if you have a good, clean ferment you can avoid a lot of the hot nasty mess and can have something pleasant in the normal timeframe.

I fully affirm that pleasant can go to amazing with age. (and that "proper" production includes some manner of aging)
 
So now answer this, look at my recipe and tell me what is giving me a sweet, caramelish flavor.
14# pilsner
1 lb spec B
Wyeast Trap HG
2cups white cane
1 lb #45 belgian candi syrup
 
And will that overly sweetness mellow out? I tasted after 12 days in bottle, 1 week primary, 2 weeks secondary. Good temps, steady. S.G. at bottling was 1.012. Whats going on with this sweet?
 
Yeast character, most likely. Lots of times it's perceived as sweet, even though there's not much residual sugar.

Special B & candi syrup will give some of the (distinctive) caramel flavors.
 
sounds good. I used 2 lbs brown candi sugar and 1 lb cane sugar in a belgian dark strong. it was preety good.
 
As i suspected. I did a blonde the next week.
15 # pilsner
1 lb corn sugar
1 lb light bel. Candi sugar
Wyeast Belgian strong

This tasted good, after the primary had only just slowed down! So i think your right on. Is this a pretty good belgian recipe? And what would u call it, belgian strong blonde ale or a trippel? The abv is about 9.5 - 10%?
 
A Duvel clone is on my list. I remember sitting in a bar in Antwerp and drinking four of these Duvels. Didn't know much about beer back then. Started slurring my words and couldn't figure out why...:)
 

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