Reasonably cheap way to create flavor depth?

I am making some cider for a friend. Normally I just use store brand apple juice/juice concentrate but I find it doesn't have real depth to the apple flavor. I've used tea bags for tannins and tried using different yeast for esters but it always seems a little flat in the apple flavor. I realize this is a function of using generic apple juice, so I'd like to find a way to -- excuse the pun -- juice up the flavor without spending a fortune getting equipment and importing tasty apples. I don't have a press and even if I did, we don't have much (or any) apple production in Texas and shipping apples sounds rather expensive.

Thoughts?

I boil 6-8 oz of raisins in a small amount of water, (until the water darkens) mash them with a fork and pour through a strainer. It adds some tannins, and in theory, some nutrients for the yeast.

Is there any kind of alternate store brand apple juice available? If you can get any kind of unique apples in the produce section, you could always juice a few and add it to the store bought juice for a little variation.

You could always add a little acid blend to give it some bite.

disclaimer: the following is mainly opinion rather than fact. a bit of malic acid (henceforth sporadically but not consistently referred to as ma) will help give a tangy zing that can be missing, especially in sweet/dessert apples. that said, some great dry english ciders are, at least to my taste buds, relatively low in ma, and a ton of malic but nothing else (thin body, low tannin) makes a really weird, unbalanced drink. but in a semi-sweet cider especially, i find that sour zing essential. adding some juiced supermarket granny smiths will also take care of that ma for you, per previous post

ReverseApacheMaster said:

I am making some cider for a friend. Normally I just use store brand apple juice/juice concentrate but I find it doesn't have real depth to the apple flavor. I've used tea bags for tannins and tried using different yeast for esters but it always seems a little flat in the apple flavor. I realize this is a function of using generic apple juice, so I'd like to find a way to -- excuse the pun -- juice up the flavor without spending a fortune getting equipment and importing tasty apples. I don't have a press and even if I did, we don't have much (or any) apple production in Texas and shipping apples sounds rather expensive.

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

You could use FAJC (Frozen Apple Juice Concentrate), thawed of course, added to your apple juice to "juice it up." This has the added effect of increasing the acid content as well, which can often add a little bite.

You can add raisins (I put 'em through a blender 1st) or even frozen white grape juice concentrate (thawed) for added body. You could also use malt extract instead of corn or table sugar, it alters the flavour a bit, but the apple still comes through.

You might try adding a couple oz of molasses, it goes well with apple; or even caraway seed, which I think is fantastic with apple. Neither will add body, but they certainly do make for a tasty cider.
Regards, GF.

Instead of buying the clear apple juice, try to find the "cider" at the market. I have seen it sold as cider or unfiltered apple juice.(Musselmans brand?) It's not quite the same as the fresh pressed I am lucky enough to have at several farms locally here in NY but it is the closest match I have seen in a supermarket.
Also, North American "dessert apples" don't usually make a good cider on their own. I have had cider made with actual cider apples and WOW what a difference the right balance of tannins and acid can make. Do you have any crab apple trees in Texas? you can crush a few of those in your next batch for the flavor.
Just go scrumpin for some crab apples.

back sweeten with frozen concentrate. part of what makes an apple an apple is its sweetness so if after you have fermented out all the apple sugars, you back sweeten with concentrate you will get a superior apple taste. Just make sure you do something to stop the yeast first or after it is in the bottles for a bit if you want co2.

How about racking on top of apple schnapps or pucker? Anyone ever tried that?

Sorry but there is no substitute for proper cider apples. just buy a few (1 or 2 is good)trees for about 15 bucks each and plant them in your yard. They are the easist to keep as they require very little work. Give them a lump of manure for teh fist 5 years or so, and prune out any branches that corss over. The apples drop to teh ground and you stick them in teh shed for about a month till they soften and teh you tear tehm up in a food processor and you can buy a press fairly cheeply. Get Bitter sweet apple varieties and make up teh juice with some bramley or cooking apples to sharpen it. That will give you teh depth you need. Juice form eating apples will always make insipid cider.

Pretty sure your landlord won't like you planting a fruit bearing tree in his yard if you're a renter

Not that I rent but my back yard is bog enough for one tree. I'm more than willing to go this route but the wife would beat me with an Apple tree branch every time she got the incline.

My point is there's more to finding a crab Apple source that extends beyond planting your own.

Cheap, grocery store frozen apple juice concentrate won't add the depth/flavor that you are looking for... but the more expensive "Organic" apple cider concentrate that you can find in health food stores and better top end grocery stores WILL!

Now... It won't make it into Cider apple cider - but it will make it a huge step better than what you get from grocery store juice.

Thanks

GDRMaille said:

How about racking on top of apple schnapps or pucker? Anyone ever tried that?

Click to expand...

I have some sitting on Apfelkorn right now but I've never tasted it.

There's simply no substitute for a good base of REAL apple cider. I've been doing some reading on Graff and it's variants and playing around in Beer Smith, and frankly I'm starting to think that picking the right ale yeast and a good selection of a SMALL quantity of specialty grains may be the only real way to add some complexity. Of course, that complexity is other flavors besides sweet, tart, sour apple varieties. And, I guess at that point it's more Apple Beer than Apple Cider or Apple Wine, but hey, if it's good it's good.

There are so many things someone could try that I've stumbled on in research.

* There's dry hopping with a small amount of dry hops. I know there is one commercially available hard cider that is dry hopped...but again, that's a full blown cider.
* There's aging with Oak Cubes. I'm tempted to do this with some french oak cubes that have been soaked in Apfelkorn (why not, cider in France is aged in the left over oak barrels that calvados is aged in).
* There's Graff, which is mostly store bought apple juice or apple cider added to a small batch of malted wort and a very small quantity of hops boiled for 30 minutes (and, in playing with beersmith, if it's a hop with low aau 30 minutes vs 60 minutes doesn't really make a difference). The juice is added after the boil of course.
* There's more malted beer done with Apple Juice added after the boil making up 20% or so of the "grain bill" so-to-speak. This is the option that interests me the most. But at the same time, I guess at that point you're getting more into a "fruit beer" with no real official style.

It goes back to creating the taste that we want.

Also, I still doubt how useful adding acid is to brew done with store bought juice. The apples here in the U.S. that go into apple juice are already acidic, which is what "tart" is. That's not necessarily the case in other parts of the world. But here in the U.S., adding acid just seems like it's going to serve either zero purpose, or serve to just make the flavor profile further lopsided.

On adding acid... You will understand once you age out some of your home made store juice cider a little longer... The first month, it tastes awesome... As it ages - the tartness dissipates until it's pretty darn bland at 6-months....

If you start out with a blend that's *Really* sour and bitter - it ages out to taste pretty darn good as time goes on....

As you can see - you gotta decide on what you want... Quick drinking ciders are better off just left as fermented fresh pressed juice without too much additives.... Longer aging ciders are better made with the more sour/bitter and higher sugar content "Cider" apples and/or other additives to add intensity and interest to the flavor as they age out...

Thanks

try the juice concentrate when back sweetening and head out the the smoking/grilling section of the hardware store and pick up some apple wood chips. I like to throw them in the oven at 200 for a while to "toast" them and then soak them in just enough vodka to cover and throw into the primary once the fermentation dies down. I leave them in until the yeast settles out.

Or buy the trees and wait 5 years or so . . .