Wyeast London Ale Not Fermenting?

Hello All,

Its been nearly 24 hrs since pitching my Wyeast London Ale and it appears to be doing nothing. Its sitting at 18C. This is also my first time using this yeast. Is this normal? Usually with dry yeast I would start seeing some krausen building up, but it appears to be doing nothing.

How large a batch?
Did you make a starter?
What was your OG?

24 hours is not a very long time if you pitched a single pack without a starter.

I basically did the smack pack thing. I busted the little pouch inside, shook it, and it expanded. At the 3hr mark I poured it into 24C wort.

OG: 1043
batch size: 23L

Ive brewed a lot of batches using dry yeast and I usually would be starting to see some action by now. I am using a coopers diy fermenter so it's clear. There's no foam starting on the top. Seems dead.
One mistake I made is that I didn't really stir it in. Just poured it into the wort and put the lid on. I then carried the fermenter downstairs which sloshed it about some.

I'm really excited for this batch. Its an English nut brown hopped with 2 oz of EK Goldings.

How old was the pack? Did you aerate the wort at all other than the brief sloshing?

give it another 24 hours, usually my starters with this strain seem to start a bit slow.

Ok. If it's like this tomorrow aft, Im gonna toss an S-05 on it. Got nothing to lose. Wort smells great.
The wort was aerated before I put the yeast in. I just forgot to give it a stir. Still, I should see 'something'... eventually. The pack swelled up nice too. I will wait and see.

How about taking a SG reading instead of going with visual indicators (that mean pretty much nothing if you don't see them)?? Without testing the gravity you have no idea what's going on (if anything) within the batch.

I've had great results with Wyeast 1318 London Ale III with it taking off pretty fast (under 8-12 hours) after I pitch the slurry (I make starters for all batches). I also use pure O2 to oxygenate the wort before pitching the slurry. I also chill the wort to below 60F for my batches (they ferment in a basement that's about 60F this time of year).

Remember, it can take up to 72 hours before you see evidence of fermentation...

Golddiggie said:

How about taking a SG reading instead of going with visual indicators (that mean pretty much nothing if you don't see them)?? Without testing the gravity you have no idea what's going on (if anything) within the batch.

I've had great results with Wyeast 1318 London Ale III with it taking off pretty fast (under 8-12 hours) after I pitch the slurry (I make starters for all batches). I also use pure O2 to oxygenate the wort before pitching the slurry. I also chill the wort to below 60F for my batches (they ferment in a basement that's about 60F this time of year).

Remember, it can take up to 72 hours before you see evidence of fermentation...

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I haven't taken an SG reading yet as I do not want to disturb what may be occurring inside the fermenter yet. Just looking for some general advice on the yeast strain and trying to find out if this is common. Before I re pitch tomorrow I will obviously be sure to take a gravity reading. I don't see the point in using pure 02 to oxygenate a 1043 beer when I have had great success in the past with other yeasts using the same grain bill.

If the pack swelled, the yeast is active. Give it some time.

Im about to go down and pour a pint, will take a peek in the fermenter room.

Ok I went and checked the fermenter. Nothing. I took an SG... same as Friday at 2:30 EST. I am going to be out most of the day so I re pitched with S05 and it will now be a hybrid american/english nutbrown.
The Wyeast site mentions that no starter is needed for their activator packs and that you should see at least some signs of fermentation within 36 hrs. The pack was really swelled too so no idea what is up there. I just couldn't risk letting it sit dormant for another full day and spoiling the batch. If the Wyeast does decide to kick off today with the S05.... look out! I doubt it will though. Its dead in there. Fermenter is sitting in a sanitized rubbermaid just in case a bomb goes off in there when I am out.

*Sigh*

Well there goes 9$. With all the success I have had with other yeasts, I can't see myself going down this road again.

You should have just waited it out. I think you were trying to fix a problem that did not exist. It can take up to 72 hours to see signs of active fermentation.

hoghead said:

You should have just waited it out. I think you were trying to fix a problem that did not exist. It can take up to 72 hours to see signs of active fermentation.

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No worries. I got all the answers I needed here.

I had the same issue with London Ale yeast. Brewed on Monday and 72 hours later still nothing. This is the second batch I have lost in a row. Both times I used Wyeast London Ale and Wyeast Czech Pils. The first batch never ever fermented. The packs did not swell and it states on the website that they do not need to swell to be active.

brewnickbrew said:

I had the same issue with London Ale yeast. Brewed on Monday and 72 hours later still nothing. This is the second batch I have lost in a row. Both times I used Wyeast London Ale and Wyeast Czech Pils. The first batch never ever fermented. The packs did not swell and it states on the website that they do not need to swell to be active.

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Where did you get the yeast packs from? If mail order, did you get the insulated box and gel packs too? If from the LHBS, you should be able to return them for packs that DO swell. While swelling, or not swelling, is not critical, it does 'proof' the yeast. Basically, it proves (to you) that there are still viable yeast cells present in the pack in sufficient quantities to produce enough CO2 to make the pack swell up.

BTW, unless you're fermenting something with an OG under ~1.050 (some say an even lower OG), and a volume of about 5 gallons, you should make a starter. I make starters for every batch of beer I make. I've only used Wyeast for my beers (to date) and have not had a single starter fail on me. The ONE time I had no reaction was from washed slurry. Even there, I can't blame the manufacturer, since I suspect I messed up on the harvesting of the yeast.

Since you appear to have bad luck with Wyeast so far, it could be where you're getting it from. Also, what were the dates on the packs? It's recommended to use the yeast within 6 months of that date. After a month, a starter is advisable no matter what your batch size, and OG, is.

I didn't make a starter in either case and realize it is a good idea but, it is not critical. This can be debated all day I know but, I should have seen at least some sort of activity. I got them all from Midwest. The dates were well within the range that they should be. I bought them during mild weather and the packages were insulated and never sat on the porch. Both came right off the truck and into the fridge.
This was the second and 3rd time I've used Wyeast. The first time I had excellent results. Made a Czech Pils with no starter and it turned out great. The pack swelled up tight.

Even with 'mild' weather, the boxes (on the trucks) can get HOT when it's not cold out.

I've added the insulated box, and cold packs, whenever I've ordered from either MidWest, Northern Brewer or Rebel Brewer. IF I'm getting my yeast locally, then I'll even get a cold pack if it's not 50F (or lower) out.

Contact MidWest and tell them what happened with the yeast you got from them.

Personally, IF I ever get a packet of Wyeast that doesn't swell within a few hours (at least to some level) I'll be taking it back. Since I make starters a few days (or more) ahead, it's no issue. I can push the brew day off until the following weekend if I must due to that.

BTW, pitching closer to the starting yeast cell count is never a bad thing, or unnecessary. Just as properly oxygenating your wort is not a bad idea. I've been making dual stage/step starters lately, so I can get my pitch cell count with two small starters, compared with needing one LARGE starter if a single step. A stirplate makes it even easier. These are simple facts/truths. If you select to not go that route it won't make you a lesser brewer. But, you'll be denying your yeast additional resources/opportunities to do great things for you. IMO, getting even better brew makes these few, easy, items well worth the expense (mostly dollars, since it's minimal time). :fro:

HopHeadGrady said:

No worries. I got all the answers I needed here.

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You did? I still think you should have waited. You've had good luck using one pack before but that was dry yeast with twice the cell count. If the pack swelled, you had active yeast. Gotta give it time, especially without a starter.

I know everyone has an opinion, but I think first and foremost your pitch temp was way too high. 24C that's what, almost 76F? I would never pitch yeast until it wort was at least in the 60's, that high of a temp probably wouldn't kill yeast but it sure would stress it and make some nasty off flavors besides.

I just used the Wyeast London Ale in a Lagunitas WTF clone and it turned out absolutely fantastic. But, I used a pretty big starter (for a pretty big beer) and I pitched and fermented at 65F.

Good on ya for keeping a packet of us-05 around for emergencies, I've screwed the pooch and went with the emergency dry yeast packet and I'll tell ya, I'm confident your batch will turn out great regardless.

AviatorTroy said:

I know everyone has an opinion, but I think first and foremost your pitch temp was way too high. 24C that's what, almost 76F? I would never pitch yeast until it wort was at least in the 60's, that high of a temp probably wouldn't kill yeast but it sure would stress it and make some nasty off flavors besides.

I just used the Wyeast London Ale in a Lagunitas WTF clone and it turned out absolutely fantastic. But, I used a pretty big starter (for a pretty big beer) and I pitched and fermented at 65F.

Good on ya for keeping a packet of us-05 around for emergencies, I've screwed the pooch and went with the emergency dry yeast packet and I'll tell ya, I'm confident your batch will turn out great regardless.

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While I agree that that was way too high for pitching temp, pitching at 76 would make the yeast replicate faster, if anything. Yeast love being at warmer temps, we just don't love them there because of what they do to the beer.

I made the mistake of pitching when my wort was a few degrees above my ferment temperature once. As it cooled down over the next day it was basically putting the yeast to sleep. They apparently think it's time to hibernate when it starts cooling off. With that batch I think it took 3 days before it finally settled in and started fermenting. I am careful now to pitch at or under my target fermentation temp. That batch didn't turn out very well. It's hard to tell what the cause was. I had too many variables. First time using washed yeast, re-pitch from a very hoppy beer, plus the temp thing.

I'm in this old thread because my starter has not shown any activity yet after about 16 hours. Due to a series of events I have had this pack in the refrigerator for about 6 weeks now. It's packaging date is Feb 10, and I pitched it into the starter on May 2. Beersmith puts it at 53% viability. I increased my starter size accordingly. I'm hopeful that it picks up soon. I plan to do a BIAB version of Norther Brewers Rebel Rye tomorrow.