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Bowow0708

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I was thinking to go allgrain during my next order from the USA, since im in the philippines i need to order everything there since australia is a tad more costly than stuff in the USA. in my next order im thinking of getting either a 10 or 15 gal pot and a platechiller and a malt mill, my last extract kit, grains for my first allgrain batch, sanitizer, and since im in the phils. and small to regular beers are no good if the delivery of the ingredients are so costly so i only do big beers. Also a wine corker, corks, and or bottles since mead making is better here with honey at 3.5$ a kilo from the supermarket.
The plate chiller is also more or less my only option since water is never lower than 70F except during the rainy season where it is impossible to brew.
Going allgrain means i can order grain bulk and with the mill it will last longer and save me money with the cheaper grain with longer shelf life.

All in all that is around 800 Usd (or 38000 Php)
And i can just build my MLT here.

So here is where i am conflicting

-One, i get everything listed and next time be able to just bulk order grain and save money in the long run, but it would mean a giant investment now.

Or

-Two, stick with extract and the wine bottling eqiument and wait, but bemoan over my lack of freedom and cheapness of allgrain but have my mead to age and drink with the wine corking equipment. Then getting one piece of equipment at a time but where the overseas shipping will make me spend more in the long run anyway. Around 65$ per box and 2 months at the very least delivery time.

can anyone help here?

ps. how long will unmilled bulk grain store at room temp approx. 75-80F indoors w/o a basement in a airtight container? if i decide to go for the full investment.
 
Grain should keep for several months in an airtight container, I always rotate which grains I use and nothing lasts more than 4 months or so. To save a few $ consider getting a corona grain mill and a Colanna capper/corker - I use both and they're great !

You might be able to buy bulk grain from a brewery in the Philippines ?
 
Bowow0708 said:
I was thinking to go allgrain during my next order from the USA, since im in the philippines i need to order everything there since australia is a tad more costly than stuff in the USA. in my next order im thinking of getting either a 10 or 15 gal pot and a platechiller and a malt mill, my last extract kit, grains for my first allgrain batch, sanitizer, and since im in the phils. and small to regular beers are no good if the delivery of the ingredients are so costly so i only do big beers. Also a wine corker, corks, and or bottles since mead making is better here with honey at 3.5$ a kilo from the supermarket.
The plate chiller is also more or less my only option since water is never lower than 70F except during the rainy season where it is impossible to brew.
Going allgrain means i can order grain bulk and with the mill it will last longer and save me money with the cheaper grain with longer shelf life.

All in all that is around 800 Usd (or 38000 Php)
And i can just build my MLT here.

So here is where i am conflicting

-One, i get everything listed and next time be able to just bulk order grain and save money in the long run, but it would mean a giant investment now.

Or

-Two, stick with extract and the wine bottling eqiument and wait, but bemoan over my lack of freedom and cheapness of allgrain but have my mead to age and drink with the wine corking equipment. Then getting one piece of equipment at a time but where the overseas shipping will make me spend more in the long run anyway. Around 65$ per box and 2 months at the very least delivery time.

can anyone help here?

ps. how long will unmilled bulk grain store at room temp approx. 75-80F indoors w/o a basement in a airtight container? if i decide to go for the full investment.

I say shoot for it, I personally love brewing so much more since I switched. Saving money is good and it sounds like you're in it for the long run, also that shouldn't be a problem spring the grain, just make sure it's in an air tight container if possible, and put it in the coolest place in your house.
 
You might be able to buy bulk grain from a brewery in the Philippines ?

hmm maybe but there are only 2 breweries in the philippines and even they import from australia and other countries and they are mostly high adjunct beers since "all malt"(that fact has just been used for marketing for a while now) beers are too expensive to be economically successful, they about twice the cost to the regular flagship beers are around 50c a 12oz bottle. most likely they are importing 6 row malts and are using rice and corn for their pale pilsen lager beers. but i saw a homebrewer online but he has not been updating his blog since 2007 who is trying for a small scale commercial malting company for the few or bare handfull of filipino homebrewers.
 
Can't you get someone to buy stuff for you and Johnny air it to you? I would think it's cheaper that way. My wifes cousins do that all the time. Not for homebrewing, but other stuff.
 
Can't you get someone to buy stuff for you and Johnny air it to you? I would think it's cheaper that way. My wifes cousins do that all the time. Not for homebrewing, but other stuff.

that is around the same rates i get so there is no change in the shipping and the bill is sent to me but the order is sent to a relative there in the USA then they send it here either in the same box or in a balikbayan box
 
I understand the plate chiller, but you can't get a decent sized pot and a grain mill in the Philippines? Also, you can look into Brew in a Bag as an alternative to having to build or buy a mash tun.
 
If you are going to be there awhile, why not take advantage of the long growing season and order some hop rhyzomes?
 
I understand the plate chiller, but you can't get a decent sized pot and a grain mill in the Philippines? Also, you can look into Brew in a Bag as an alternative to having to build or buy a mash tun.

I have been looking for pots for a long time around here and the biggest ones are only 5 to 7 gal not enough for full boils, big enough for soup making in a restaurant but not full allgrain boils. and the only kind of mill that i can find here are for de-husking rice and even those are only for small scale commercial rice growing. Or for making mills for milling flour but they are also sized for commercial use, apart from that mills used to crush seeds and grain for feeding livestock but i doubt that they can keep the husk intact.
i have also been looking into BIAB but you have also touched on another of my conflicts.
 
If you are going to be there awhile, why not take advantage of the long growing season and order some hop rhyzomes?

true i have considered ordering rhizomes but i would hate having to go through all the tiresome forms and documents for importing a plant rhizome since it may accidentally enter into the environment and outcompete the native flora or it may introduce some kind of plant virus and kill plenty of the plants and hops are subject to quarantine because of powdery mildew and so such. and we have no winter or fall only summer and monsoons 6 months hot and humid, 6 months a ton of rain. the hops would probably drown here since my yard of only good for growing wild grass.
 
I say go for it. Get the gear to go all grain and move forward. If there are other home brewers close to you see if you can get enough of a grain order together to get the cost per sack a bit better (shipping being the major part of it I assume). I would also see about getting some 1/2 barrel kegs from local sources if possible. They make EXCELLENT mash tuns (where you can direct fire them) as well as keggles and such. You can also use smaller kegs to ferment in, making it even easier. Parts to convert kegs will be smaller, easier to ship, and probably save you enough stress that it's worth considering.

For the mill, I would advise going for the one that you KNOW you'll be happy with for the long term. Not just one you like the price of (i.e. the cheap, ugly, mill). I started with a Barley Crusher, but then outgrew it (in about 8 months) and now have a Monster MM2-2.0 and don't regret the switch one bit. Sure, I could have gone for the ugly corona mill, and save some money, but the Monster is a thing of beauty as it goes through the grain. All you need is a decent drill (I use an 18v DeWalt cordless drill to power mine) and you're set.

There are plenty of keg conversion kits available to pick from. So you shouldn't have any issue there. If you're going to have it all shipped to one place state-side, then have it shipped to you, it shouldn't be that much of an issue going that route.

When I converted my keg into the mash tun, it took only a few hours (total) between cutting the top, drilling the holes, and installing the fittings. I've made some additional changes to it, but those are pretty easy.

One thing I would advise you consider getting with the plate chiller is a march pump. Get some 1/2" ID silicone tubing too, to run the hot wort through. I would get the largest plate chiller you can get from the start. A 40 plate could be a good start, but you might need a bigger one. Or one that uses larger plates than ones like the Blichmann uses. With the pump, you can recirculate the hot wort back into the kettle/keggle until it's dropped to a good level, and then do a final pass into the fermenter. I would advise getting the RebelSmart from Rebel Brewer for your plate chiller. It's another way to see what temperatures you're getting out of the chiller, so you'll know what the temp of the finished wort is in fermenter.

You might want to think about getting a chest freezer to store all your grain and hops in. That way, they'll keep for a long time. If you plan it right, you could make one ingredient purchase a year, and be able to safely store it, using it all up just before the next shipment arrives.

With what we can get here in the states, I can't imagine what it's like over where you are. Even shipping from a state-side HBS gets to be a huge expense for you. Where we have all kinds of options.

I also don't think growing hops will work out too well in your climate. From what I've read about hops, they really do need/want the winter to go dormant. Plus, I've heard about hops simply not growing in too wet of conditions, which you have in spades. Compound that with the paperwork, and such and you're probably better off just getting large orders of pellet hops as you can.
 
I say go for it. Get the gear to go all grain and move forward. If there are other home brewers close to you see if you can get enough of a grain order together to get the cost per sack a bit better (shipping being the major part of it I assume). I would also see about getting some 1/2 barrel kegs from local sources if possible. They make EXCELLENT mash tuns (where you can direct fire them) as well as keggles and such. You can also use smaller kegs to ferment in, making it even easier. Parts to convert kegs will be smaller, easier to ship, and probably save you enough stress that it's worth considering.

For the mill, I would advise going for the one that you KNOW you'll be happy with for the long term. Not just one you like the price of (i.e. the cheap, ugly, mill). I started with a Barley Crusher, but then outgrew it (in about 8 months) and now have a Monster MM2-2.0 and don't regret the switch one bit. Sure, I could have gone for the ugly corona mill, and save some money, but the Monster is a thing of beauty as it goes through the grain. All you need is a decent drill (I use an 18v DeWalt cordless drill to power mine) and you're set.

There are plenty of keg conversion kits available to pick from. So you shouldn't have any issue there. If you're going to have it all shipped to one place state-side, then have it shipped to you, it shouldn't be that much of an issue going that route.

When I converted my keg into the mash tun, it took only a few hours (total) between cutting the top, drilling the holes, and installing the fittings. I've made some additional changes to it, but those are pretty easy.

One thing I would advise you consider getting with the plate chiller is a march pump. Get some 1/2" ID silicone tubing too, to run the hot wort through. I would get the largest plate chiller you can get from the start. A 40 plate could be a good start, but you might need a bigger one. Or one that uses larger plates than ones like the Blichmann uses. With the pump, you can recirculate the hot wort back into the kettle/keggle until it's dropped to a good level, and then do a final pass into the fermenter. I would advise getting the RebelSmart from Rebel Brewer for your plate chiller. It's another way to see what temperatures you're getting out of the chiller, so you'll know what the temp of the finished wort is in fermenter.

You might want to think about getting a chest freezer to store all your grain and hops in. That way, they'll keep for a long time. If you plan it right, you could make one ingredient purchase a year, and be able to safely store it, using it all up just before the next shipment arrives.

With what we can get here in the states, I can't imagine what it's like over where you are. Even shipping from a state-side HBS gets to be a huge expense for you. Where we have all kinds of options.

I also don't think growing hops will work out too well in your climate. From what I've read about hops, they really do need/want the winter to go dormant. Plus, I've heard about hops simply not growing in too wet of conditions, which you have in spades. Compound that with the paperwork, and such and you're probably better off just getting large orders of pellet hops as you can.


you have read my mind on what i want to do if i go forward, and one other thing i was planning to get the barleycrusher and getting the shirron plate chiller. it may be small but i heard good things about it if you can keep it from clogging and i was thinking of using gravity for my hot wort and im not pressed for time on a brew day, since to me the longer the brew day the better.
I have also been considering a keggle or something similar but i have only seen 2 places with kegs. one was at a japanese restaurant and one on a truck for delivery so they are not as common here and they probably reuse then to save money.
 
If you plan on making anything with a decent grain bill, I'd go with a bigger/better (I know better is subjective) mill than the BC. The Monster MM2-2.0 is a BEAST of a mill. I went with the base, hopper and hopper extension from Monster. It will hold 39 POUNDS of grain in the hopper without question. I put almost 29# in it last brew day and it was taunting me.

For the plate chiller, you could get that style, but maybe more plates. The pump will help you to get the entire batch closer to the desired temp so that you can do a full open run into fermenter. Otherwise, you'll be running it at a trickle from the kettle into primary, through the chiller. I can get my wort from boiling to about 70F in about 5 minutes with a reciculation and my ChillHog 4000 plate chiller (from Rebel). I then put the out tube from the top of the kettle into the fermenter (a pony keg) and get the flow going again without any pump pushing it. By the time it's done draining, the wort is about 60F (this time of year, about 64F during warmer months).

It's not about the length of the brew day at the chill phase, it's more about getting the cold break to happen properly and get the wort into fermenter in a safe manner. Plus, with the pump, you will have more options open to you.
 
If you plan on making anything with a decent grain bill, I'd go with a bigger/better (I know better is subjective) mill than the BC. The Monster MM2-2.0 is a BEAST of a mill. I went with the base, hopper and hopper extension from Monster. It will hold 39 POUNDS of grain in the hopper without question. I put almost 29# in it last brew day and it was taunting me.

For the plate chiller, you could get that style, but maybe more plates. The pump will help you to get the entire batch closer to the desired temp so that you can do a full open run into fermenter. Otherwise, you'll be running it at a trickle from the kettle into primary, through the chiller. I can get my wort from boiling to about 70F in about 5 minutes with a reciculation and my ChillHog 4000 plate chiller (from Rebel). I then put the out tube from the top of the kettle into the fermenter (a pony keg) and get the flow going again without any pump pushing it. By the time it's done draining, the wort is about 60F (this time of year, about 64F during warmer months).

It's not about the length of the brew day at the chill phase, it's more about getting the cold break to happen properly and get the wort into fermenter in a safe manner. Plus, with the pump, you will have more options open to you.

i guess so, and thanks for the advice! i am still sitting on the decision and waiting for more outside opinions to help me make my choice.
 
There are a few items I wish I had gotten the first time around. Things like the Blichmann burners, or the 10 gallon Blichmann kettle, or the plate chiller (and march pump) as well as the mill I currently have. I went with less expensive options first, but eventually ended up getting these items anyway. IMO, Blichmann burners are worth every penny. Comparing them to at least two other burners (one I have, one my brew buddy has) they perform better and use less propane. The plate chiller is better, for me at least, than the IC's I built. The 10 gallon Blichmann kettle works great for my 6.5-7 gallon (end of boil) batches, even though it can be a bit tight sometimes. I'm debating getting the 15 gallon, or converting a keg into a keggle. I've done the BIAB method, as well as converted a 70qt Coleman Xtreme cooler and 10 gallon RubberMaid cooler into mash tuns. While they work very well in their own right, I like using the keg mash tun far better. I can direct fire it to hit my temps, and with the welding blanket (carbon fiber) wrap it holds temps really well.

I would also suggest looking into hardware to make yeast starters. You might want to look into building up your own yeast bank too. Either just in the fridge, or freezer (different processes involved in either). If you find a yeast strain that works great for you, you should be able to go a significant amount of time between when you need to purchase more.

For the chiller, if you want a monster of one, look at what Duda Diesel offers. I know of one other brewer (personally) that has one of their large plate chillers and it performs like a monster. Of course, he's using well water to chill, so it's super fast. With how warm your grown water must be, something like that would be of serious advantage. You might even be able to craft up a large chill chamber for the plate chiller to sit in, with tons of ice, to help get it even cooler, once you hit the limit of the ground water by itself. Not sure if that will work out, but it's worth thinking about.
 
There are a few items I wish I had gotten the first time around. Things like the Blichmann burners, or the 10 gallon Blichmann kettle, or the plate chiller (and march pump) as well as the mill I currently have. I went with less expensive options first, but eventually ended up getting these items anyway. IMO, Blichmann burners are worth every penny. Comparing them to at least two other burners (one I have, one my brew buddy has) they perform better and use less propane. The plate chiller is better, for me at least, than the IC's I built. The 10 gallon Blichmann kettle works great for my 6.5-7 gallon (end of boil) batches, even though it can be a bit tight sometimes. I'm debating getting the 15 gallon, or converting a keg into a keggle. I've done the BIAB method, as well as converted a 70qt Coleman Xtreme cooler and 10 gallon RubberMaid cooler into mash tuns. While they work very well in their own right, I like using the keg mash tun far better. I can direct fire it to hit my temps, and with the welding blanket (carbon fiber) wrap it holds temps really well.

I would also suggest looking into hardware to make yeast starters. You might want to look into building up your own yeast bank too. Either just in the fridge, or freezer (different processes involved in either). If you find a yeast strain that works great for you, you should be able to go a significant amount of time between when you need to purchase more.

For the chiller, if you want a monster of one, look at what Duda Diesel offers. I know of one other brewer (personally) that has one of their large plate chillers and it performs like a monster. Of course, he's using well water to chill, so it's super fast. With how warm your grown water must be, something like that would be of serious advantage. You might even be able to craft up a large chill chamber for the plate chiller to sit in, with tons of ice, to help get it even cooler, once you hit the limit of the ground water by itself. Not sure if that will work out, but it's worth thinking about.

i doubt that i would use Blichmann burners since over here we dont have natural gas piping. we order LPG or liquid petroleum gas and using propane is more expensive. and thanks for the tip with duda diesel their 40 plate chiller costs less than the shirron(which is only 10 plate) and i might just use icewater for chilling and let gravity do the work, but im ordering from northernbrewer and im getting a 15 gal megapot stockpot and i rather order from one place and get everything at once if i decide on it. and the pump seems too extravagant otherwise ill be going to 900 Usd.
and yeast starters have been on my mind but i dont think i will need to make my own bank since i live pretty close to the country's Department of Science and Technology where i know that some filipino homebrewers have bought yeast samples from but i might need to give them a bit of wyeast/whitelabs yeast to that they can be identified and i just need to ask for that particular strain for around 2-3 Usd per vial of yeast.
 
You might want to think about getting an immersion chiller also. You could run your chill water through the IC in an ice bath prior to the plate chiller to get your temps down for a good cold break.
What are you thinking about for fermentation temp control?
 
You might want to think about getting an immersion chiller also. You could run your chill water through the IC in an ice bath prior to the plate chiller to get your temps down for a good cold break.
What are you thinking about for fermentation temp control?

i dont need a IC just the plate chiller with icewater and for fermentation temp control i just place my carboys in a tub of water to keep it at around 65-70
 
i dont need a IC just the plate chiller with icewater and for fermentation temp control i just place my carboys in a tub of water to keep it at around 65-70

LOL...

I used my plate chiller without a pump for a few batches... As it got warmer here, I decided to bite the bullet and get the March pump. It was about the same time that I was getting my keg mash tun together, so there was more than one use for it. I use one pump to recirculate the wort as I mash to prevent scorching. I also use it to push wort through the chiller back into the kettle to sanitize the chiller before using it, as well as get a pre-chill going. With being able to pump boiling worth through the chiller, you don't need to worry about sanitizing the chiller's insides before use, just make sure you get it CLEAN inside.

Personally, I wouldn't skip the pump this time, unless you plan on placing another order in the near future. I also use the pump to push hot PBW through the chiller to help clean it out. I then run hot water through it to rinse out the PBW. With the setup I have, I can easily switch it between flow directions to make sure I get everything out. I also have an air compressor now, so I can even blow it out with forced air to make sure nothing is lurking.
 
Bow,

My opinion here.... I moved to Bulgaria knowing it was a three year gig. I planned to stay with DME via the mail or find a local source. Instead of finding a local source for DME I found a source for base grain (unknown type) and have been making beer with it. If I want to stay really close to a particular beer I order an all grain kit from somewhere. I found the source for grain from a guy who works at a brewery. No local hops or spec grain.

If it wasn't for that connection I would not have gone AG at this point. It's just darn hard to find all the pieces to make the gear I need. No home depot or lowes around here.

If you will only be in the PI for a few years I might recommend staying with DME and ordering DME kits via the mail. I have found that getting the right spec grain and the right yeast and the right hops all here via mail at the same time to be a challenge.

Hope my experience sheds some light.
 
pd230soi this is no long/short term stay, i really live and grew up here. and the only base grain here is gonna be 6 row which is no good to me.(but i might just be emigrating to australia or switzerland in 8 years or so)

Golddiggie i will use gravity with ice for now, or are you trying to make me hit 1K with the all the way choice?
 
Ok,

Well then it's a different challenge then. You will be able to find parts and bits that you need.

I would embrace BIAB/AG and maybe consider no chill brewing. That would seem to be a careful low cost entry.

10 gal pot
The bag, voile
One of those cubes
And I would try growing hops in planters!

Trying to manage little kids over here and give advice, so forgive me if I missed something...
 

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