Is my siphon oxygenating my beer?

I have noticed on my last 3 (and only) kegged batches that there has been that weird cardboard taste. The last being the most severe. At first I thought it was the ingredients i was using, but I am starting to think it is my equipment or method.

This is the siphon that i have been using from morebeer:

http://morebeer.com/view_product/18872//Sterile_Siphon_Starter_-_For_3_5_and_6_Gallon_Carboys

This unit does work pretty flawless, excellent siphon with very little bubbles.

I am wondering if the initial blow to start the siphon maybe causing the oxidation.

I do purge my kegs after they are filled, but maybe I am not doing it enough. I am at loss and can't figure it out.

Anyone have any input?

Thanks,

Joe

The only way I can see that air is getting into the siphoned beer is at the point where the tube is attached.

Yoi say you are getting a little bubbling. Aside from a minor amount of degassing (CO2) there should be no bubbles at all if the clamp is holding a true seal.

OMO

bosco

Its very fine bubbling in siphon tube.

You blow air through a filter which pressurizes the carboy to push the beer throught the racking cane and tubing.

Shouldn't be any noticable bubbling in the system unless it's getting in at the clamp area. Just a guess on my part. Increasing pressure in the carboy shouldn't have any affect on what goes through the system.

bosco

Bubbles only around where the racking cane meets the siphon tube, and like I said...not alot of them.

The increased pressure in the carboy is from using the "blow" siphon, introducing air into the carboy to start the siphon. That is what made me think that the beer might be getting oxidized.

JoeSpartaNJ said:

Bubbles only around where the racking cane meets the siphon tube, and like I said...not alot of them.

.

Click to expand...

Those bubbles would be fine if they were going into your fermenter prior to pitching, but going into your bottling bucket they are putting oxygen into your beer. Double clamp it or do somethong until the bubbles stop.

OMO

bosco

I think that he is asking about is when you have most of the beer racked out of the carboy and gravity is noticing the higher lift required in order to pull the beer all the way up the tube before going back down again. A small pocket of bubbles sits and seems to "gargle" at the apex of the siphon. I've been wondering this too lately. I don't think theres any loose seals or connections, the siphon base can be well below the surface of the water and it will just slightly "gargle". Right?

Right. The hose is clamped perfectly to the siphon. The bubbles are noticed towards the end of transferring from carboy to keg or bucket.

The bubbles have happened with auto siphon and blow siphon in every batch I have ever done.
Only recently one I started kegging (coincidently the time I started using the new type of siphon) did I notice the "oxydation".

Buy an auto-siphon? I hate solutions that require purchasing new equipment, but it's not that much and you'd be able to tell if that was indeed the cause.

I tell y'all what. I brewed 2 hefe batches and 2 Altbiers 2 weeks apart, exact same recipes, just different yeast on both (trying a homemade yeast comparison). The Hefe and Alt I currently have on tap were my first 2 kegs and both seemed slightly cardboardy. I'm about to keg the other Hefe and Alt as soon as I finish this response. This Hefe is in a secondary and I'm just going to pour it straight into a keg (last one needed a little more yeast for flavor). I'll be extra careful with the Alt and be sure to overpurge any additional oxygen out of the kegs and I'll get back and let you guys know what I find.

I need to buy a new auto siphon anyway. I switched back to buckets and the blow siphon will not work on it. Hopefully it is something that simple.

I got lots of air in my first batch, and it didn't seem to affect it one bit.

Even with the auto siphon, the beer coming out of the dip tube into the tubing creates an air pocket. I usually get the siphon going then squeeze the tubing right at the top by bending it down, this flushes the air out.

treydobass said:

This Hefe is in a secondary and I'm just going to pour it straight into a keg

Click to expand...

that sounds like a good way to make your oxidation problems worse

chickypad said:

that sounds like a good way to make your oxidation problems worse

Click to expand...

This is true. I thought I could find a way to slowly/calmly pour, but that was just ridiculous. BUBBLE QUESTION SOLVED. It actually is a poor seal. Its the rubber plunger inside the siphon. The vacuum created by the downward fall of the beer out of the siphon is greater than that of what the seal can withstand, so air starts to leak in. Pour a little beer into a sanitized glass and pour that on top of the plunger/inside the siphon. No more bubbles.

I have the problem of a bad seal where the siphon hose attaches to the auto siphon. I am using vinel tubing attaching with a screw ring clamp. I can not get the clamp tight enough to stop the air leak. If I try, I crack the auto siphon. Does anyone have a solution to this? Different hose? Different clamp?

Bigcorona said:

I have the problem of a bad seal where the siphon hose attaches to the auto siphon. I am using vinel tubing attaching with a screw ring clamp. I can not get the clamp tight enough to stop the air leak. If I try, I crack the auto siphon. Does anyone have a solution to this? Different hose? Different clamp?

Click to expand...

An air bubble forms in mine at the same spot, but it's not a leak, it's just trapped air. As mentioned earlier, I can just squeeze, the tubing over the bubble and it will flush out the air.

I think something else is going on here...until I bought my bottling bucket I was siphoning 4 times before bottles (primary to secondary, secondary to bottling "pot" followed by another siphon into the bottles) Yet I never experienced any oxidation.

I even considered that I was making hoppy IPA that I drank young and that could be masking the oxidation, but after my BoPils which bottle conditioned for 4 months, I realized this was not the case. I sometimes get the little bubbles at the bend of the racking cane...I find an extra push of the auto-siphon fixes this. I don't even consider myself the most careful of siphoners out there but something has to be going on to get oxidation like you explain. Can't help you but when I used to siphon, I would also use the squeeze technique to elimate problem.

JoeSpartaNJ said:

Bubbles only around where the racking cane meets the siphon tube, and like I said...not alot of them.

The increased pressure in the carboy is from using the "blow" siphon, introducing air into the carboy to start the siphon. That is what made me think that the beer might be getting oxidized.

Click to expand...

Introducing AIR or CO2? If you're just hooking up an aquarium pump to blow it out...that's a big issue there.

If it's CO2, then purge your keg prior to siphoning (or bottles), and/or take the siphon tube off and buy a tube that's 1/16" to 1/8" smaller ID. Attach to the racking cane by either gently heating with a lighter or dunking the end of the tube into hot water for 5 seconds or so and you'll get a nice tight seal and no air intake. (If you see bubbles after this, it's due to the entrained CO2 in the beer you're transferring, not a leak. You could also be seeing this with a tight clamped set-up.)

Other usual causes of oxygenation:
1. Splashing beer while transferring: make sure siphon tube is all the way to the bottom of the vessel being transferred to
2. Oxygenating at too high a temp after boil: don't vigorously stir until below 90 F when cooling

Those are the two biggest in addition to non-purging of vessels.

Good luck!

treydobass said:

This is true. I thought I could find a way to slowly/calmly pour, but that was just ridiculous. BUBBLE QUESTION SOLVED. It actually is a poor seal. Its the rubber plunger inside the siphon. The vacuum created by the downward fall of the beer out of the siphon is greater than that of what the seal can withstand, so air starts to leak in. Pour a little beer into a sanitized glass and pour that on top of the plunger/inside the siphon. No more bubbles.

Click to expand...

I need to try this. When I was transferring my last batch into the bottling bucket I noticed quite a bit of bubbles coming up. I was planning on getting a larger auto siphon thinking a larger ID tube would generate less bubbles, but I'll try this first. Thanks!