American IPA BierMuncher's Outer Limits IPA

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This yeast talk has me considering notty to make sure I get his gravity where it needs to be

Well, since the OP doesn't seem to check in on this thread anymore, I'll offer advice based on my experience with this recipe.

If I were you I'd mash at a lower temp for a longer time, say 155F for 60min. For me, it seems that the 159F/45 min mash schedule resulted in a dextrinous wort that will not go below 1.026. The attenuation of Notty is comparable WLP001.

I pitched a HUGE healthy starter of WLP001, kept steady upper 60's temps, and it went gangbusters for 2 days before completely crapping out. I re-pitched on a massive yeast cake from another brew that I had just racked, and.....nothing. I'm simply out of fermentables on this one.

I'm bummed, b/c this seemed like a great recipe, but you're taking your chances mashing that high for only 45 min with the amount of honey/crystal malt called for. My samples have been syrupy and cloying sweet. Might be my first dumped batch. :(

As always, YMMV.
 
Well, since the OP doesn't seem to check in on this thread anymore, I'll offer advice based on my experience with this recipe.

If I were you I'd mash at a lower temp for a longer time, say 155F for 60min. For me, it seems that the 159F/45 min mash schedule resulted in a dextrinous wort that will not go below 1.026. The attenuation of Notty is comparable WLP001.

I agree. Wait!!! What???

Let me see...what did the OP say he was trying to accomplish with this "Outer Limits" IPA?

Oh yeah...

I wanted to come up with a nice malty, hop-flavorful IPA that pushed the upper limits of a Category-14 (American IPA) beer. The outside range for the OG is 1.075 and the IBU’s at 60. Normally for me, a 60-IBU beer would be a bit too bitter. I knew I’d have to get to one more upper limit with this beer, and that was to attenuate to the high side of about 1.018 finished gravity. With a higher finishing gravity, the malt character would hold its own against the higher IBU’s. This was going to need a high mash (159) and a short rest (45 minutes) to give me the higher FG.

This beer remains one of my personal favorites and based upon the comments of others including those in the original post...I'd say it's lives up to it's name of "Outer Limits".

Now...I'm off to ignore some of my other threads. ;)
 
This beer remains one of my personal favorites and based upon the comments of others including those in the original post...I'd say it's lives up to it's name of "Outer Limits".

Now...I'm off to ignore some of my other threads. ;)

I'm sure it can be a fine brew and I understand the concept you were going for. I'm just commenting on what happened to me when I attempted to follow it as written, and what I'd do differently if I tried again.

I believe I used sound technique and checked my mash temps with two different thermometers, but ended up with a semi-unfermentable wort anyway. I was hoping you might be able to offer some pointers or constructive advice based on your considerable experience. Please don't take any offense, none intended.
 
I agree. Wait!!! What???

Let me see...what did the OP say he was trying to accomplish with this "Outer Limits" IPA?

Oh yeah...



This beer remains one of my personal favorites and based upon the comments of others including those in the original post...I'd say it's lives up to it's name of "Outer Limits".

Now...I'm off to ignore some of my other threads. ;)

BM

Thanks. I am going to go with your recipe as written tonight and hope for the best. It appears to have worked for most everyone and I've had great success with many of your past ones.

My only subs are on 1 or 2 hops but maintaining the IBU ratio
 
BM

Thanks. I am going to go with your recipe as written tonight and hope for the best. It appears to have worked for most everyone and I've had great success with many of your past ones.

My only subs are on 1 or 2 hops but maintaining the IBU ratio

Please share your experience if you decide to mash at 159F for 45min. I'm still trying to figure out where this brew went wrong for me. :(
 
Please share your experience if you decide to mash at 159F for 45min. I'm still trying to figure out where this brew went wrong for me. :(

Well just cleaned up.

I ended up with a hit on the efficiency. Hit 1.070.

I mashed at 158 for 45 min.

so far it looks to be ok, but we'll see what the SA-04 holds
 
Well nearly a week later. Took a gravity reading and I'm at 1.030. Its been at about 66-68 so moving it up to 70 to hopefully finish it down.

BM does this sound like its headed the right way?
 
Well nearly a week later. Took a gravity reading and I'm at 1.030. Its been at about 66-68 so moving it up to 70 to hopefully finish it down.

BM does this sound like its headed the right way?

I was at 1.026 after a week at 69F, and it didn't move after that. I tried rousing the yeast and also pitching onto a yeast cake from another brew and letting it go for 2 more weeks.

Still at 1.026. :(
 
I was at 1.026 after a week at 69F, and it didn't move after that. I tried rousing the yeast and also pitching onto a yeast cake from another brew and letting it go for 2 more weeks.

Still at 1.026. :(

interesting. well i have some renewed airlock activity with a day at 70, not the best indicator but at least something is going on. I am goin to revisit in a few days to check progress
 
interesting. well i have some renewed airlock activity with a day at 70, not the best indicator but at least something is going on. I am goin to revisit in a few days to check progress

Well as it stands I am still at 1.03.

Researching stuck fermentation, I am at 57% attenuation.

Options are:

Rouse Yeast

Pitch Notty

oPitch onto another yeast cake

I have an Nott ycake on an amber that has finished I could rack to a secondary

should I rouse the yeast, give it a week and see? if nothing then go for the yeast cake?
 
Well as it stands I am still at 1.03.

Researching stuck fermentation, I am at 57% attenuation.

Options are:

Rouse Yeast

Pitch Notty

oPitch onto another yeast cake

I have an Nott ycake on an amber that has finished I could rack to a secondary

should I rouse the yeast, give it a week and see? if nothing then go for the yeast cake?

I tried rousing the yeast and pitching onto another cake, and that did nothing for me.

It is clear to me that the problem we are experiencing is with a highly dextrinous (aka partially unfermentable) wort. This is a result of the high temp/short mash schedule. Adding more standard yeast is just a waste of yeast.

I think the only thing that might get the FG down at this point is adding amylase enzyme (beano). However, the results will be unpredictable at best and might take several more weeks.

I decided to live with it at 1.026, but honestly it is much too sweet for my tastes. I may brew up another dry IPA and blend it, but still haven't figured that part out yet.
 
I tried rousing the yeast and pitching onto another cake, and that did nothing for me.

It is clear to me that the problem we are experiencing is with a highly dextrinous (aka partially unfermentable) wort. This is a result of the high temp/short mash schedule. Adding more standard yeast is just a waste of yeast.

I think the only thing that might get the FG down at this point is adding amylase enzyme (beano). However, the results will be unpredictable at best and might take several more weeks.

I decided to live with it at 1.026, but honestly it is much too sweet for my tastes. I may brew up another dry IPA and blend it, but still haven't figured that part out yet.

I have been thinking too. BM pitched on a slurry of sa-04, I pitched a re hydrated pack. Maybe just not enough yeast to get it done?

I'll probably at least give the other strategies a try, if anything to learn in case this happens again.

AE has crossed my mind but I dont want it to dry it out too much
 
Well

I posted a thread to see what people thought of the various options in front of me.

http://goo.gl/KEdcZ

I went with the AE option presented, boy am I glad

After 3 days its down to 1.020

I am cold crashing it now and preparing for the dry hop

After completion and kegging I'll post back
 
Interesting...glad it worked out for you.

Question for BM:

Do you think that you were able to get down to 1.018 by pitching onto a slurry of S-04? Maybe that is the key to having guaranteed success with this recipe. I used WLP001 with a huge starter and MeanGreen used a packet of S-04 and we both had stuck ferm. problems.

Any insight would be appreciated.
 
I brewed it on 1-1-11. Two weeks later my gravity was at 1.030. I had been fermenting in the basement, 63 degrees. I brought up to the computer room, which is about 70, and gave it a good stir on 1-16-11. It has been bubbling quite a bit since then. I will probably take a sample this weekend to see what it is at now.
 
I checked it today, it is still at 1.030
I suppose the airlock bubbling could be the gas coming out of suspension since the brew is warmer now. Tastes pretty sweet still too. I think I will leave it warm for another week than cold crash it.
 
I checked it today, it is still at 1.030
I suppose the airlock bubbling could be the gas coming out of suspension since the brew is warmer now. Tastes pretty sweet still too. I think I will leave it warm for another week than cold crash it.

Are you going to bottle it if it doesn't drop below 1.030? I'd imagine that would be overwhelmingly syrupy and sweet. Sounds like AE did the trick for others getting it down to ~ 1.020.

FWIW, I tried this one again with a few adjustments. Scaled the grain bill back to get an OG of 1.066, used a re-hydrated pack of S-05, mashed at 153F, and fermented at 67F. It finished up nicely at 1.015. Also used citra/simcoe/amarillo for the bulk of flavor/aroma/dry hops. Turned out to be a very nice IPA.
 
actually looking back at my notes, it was at 1.032 the first time I checked. A week later after warming it up and stirring it was at 1.030. This past weekend it is at 1.028.

I'm not going to AE it, I need to get my primary and secondaries freed up. The samples taste good, I don't mind it being a bit sweet.

If I rebrew it, I will drop the mash temp some. Interestingly enough, when I put the recipe in beersmith, I get the same numbers that BM shows in the first post of the thread. Changing the mash temp in beersmith does not change the FG calculation, unless I am doing it wrong. I figure the higher mash temp are the reasons its not fermenting down.
 
I brewed this as my second all grain batch. I found out later that my thermometer was reading low so I mashed pretty high and final gravity was high. Still this was probably the best beer I have brewed. I substituted simcoe for the first hops and used centennial and cascade for the rest.

Just kegged a second batch with a little lower gravity and again it is great.
 
2nd batch just got carbed up. Perfect. Still the same great flavor but just a bit drier than the 1st batch. FG was 1.023 which left me with nice maltiness and just enough sweetness to balance all the hops. This will be a beer I have to keep on tap at all times.
Now I need to brew something for the masses, so I'm going to give BierMunchers "Centenniel blonde" a try this weekend.
 
actually looking back at my notes, it was at 1.032 the first time I checked. A week later after warming it up and stirring it was at 1.030. This past weekend it is at 1.028.

I'm not going to AE it, I need to get my primary and secondaries freed up. The samples taste good, I don't mind it being a bit sweet.

If I rebrew it, I will drop the mash temp some. Interestingly enough, when I put the recipe in beersmith, I get the same numbers that BM shows in the first post of the thread. Changing the mash temp in beersmith does not change the FG calculation, unless I am doing it wrong. I figure the higher mash temp are the reasons its not fermenting down.
Another week, another 2 point drop. 1.026. It's cold crashing now and ready to keg. I can't wait any longer for it drop further.

The mash temp makes a lot of sense.
 
In this thread - https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/pushing-outer-limits-ipa-76424/ - BierMuncher posted that he mashed at 154, not 159. Maybe that's the reason some have reported overly sweet / stuck fermentations.
Agree 100%. I think it is rather clear the 159F/45min mash directions in the first post of this thread are causing low attenuation issues. I dumped my original batch and re-brewed mashing at 154F/60min. Came out great...finished at 1.017.
 
I went back and checked my notes. I did end up at 159 on this mash. More than likely my higher attenuation was caused by pitching on that huge slurry of '04 from a just racked prior batch.

I'd suggest everyone goes ahead and sticks with their normal mash temp/rest protocol. Don't want to see anymore dumped batches. This is too good a beer. :mug:
 
well, it's now carb'd and drinkable. It's quite tasty, even I did finish a bit high on FG. It has great color, and retains the maltliness BM promised ;)
I do not notice it being overly sweet.
Yeah, this one won't stick around long.

So my 2nd BM brew is good. The Blonde was my first. Plus the beergun. I think I need his autograph.

I still want to do the TU IIPA and the porter. Good stuff BM, thank you!
 
I went back and checked my notes. I did end up at 159 on this mash. More than likely my higher attenuation was caused by pitching on that huge slurry of '04 from a just racked prior batch.
That's what I was thinking when I went back and looked at the recipe. I had just used one packet of re-hydrated S-05.

I would also re-iterate that my 2nd version mashed at 154F/60min turned out great and is one of the best IPA's I've ever made.

Cheers!
 
BM, just a couple of quick verifications. If I wanted to go with white labs, would you suggest the dry English ale (WLP007) or English ale (WLP002)?

Suggested mash of 154/60 mins?

No mash out?

I fly sparge at 168.

Sound about right?
 
BM, just a couple of quick verifications. If I wanted to go with white labs, would you suggest the dry English ale (WLP007) or English ale (WLP002)?

Suggested mash of 154/60 mins?

No mash out?

I fly sparge at 168.

Sound about right?

Sounds good. I like dry yeast 'cuz I'm simple folk. :cross:
 
I'm sure its my imagination, but it always seems the liquid yeast just produces more yeast. When I wash my yeast for re-use, there is always more (yeast cake) in the ones where I used white labs. I know the dry yeast now-a-days is just as good.

On a side note, the brew day turned out ok, the OG came in at 1.076, the chamber is set at 68 and doing its thing. I'll keep ya posted.
 
UPDATE: Just cracked off a couple of pints this past memorial day weekend. I pulled off a "tasters glass" first to remove any leftover hops that made it into the keg. Although still a little hazey, it tastes awesome. Malty up front with a hoppy finish. Can't say enough good things here BM, PROST! Next time, I'll be sure to crash cool. Although, I'll bet it clears up in another week or so.

FG came in at 1.021, 7.28% abv.
 
I am thinking about brewing this on Sunday. I have some notty or wyeast1056 on hand. What would one of these do for this beer? Or should I just pick up a packet of safale-04 when I get the other ingredients?
 
I am thinking about brewing this on Sunday. I have some notty or wyeast1056 on hand. What would one of these do for this beer? Or should I just pick up a packet of safale-04 when I get the other ingredients?

If you have any kind of attenuation issues, I'd go with the 1056 or the Notty. The '04 will give you a bit maltier profile, but as some brewers have mentioned, this malt-rich recipe has presented some challenges when it comes to getting full attenuation. The '04 on top of lower attenuation may leave you with a bit to "sweet" of a profile.
 
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