First batch... starting to taste "off"

Hello all!

I am a newbie to brewing. My first batch was an all-extract American Cream Ale kit from Brewers Best. It was put in primary Aug 8th, and bottled Aug 24th with no secondary. Before bottling, I took a sample and tasted it and it tasted great! I have been drinking it since the 27th, and while the carbonation and clarity are improving, it seems to be developing an off flavor.

I have looked over the "off-flavours" in many books, but can't directly relate the taste to one of those. The best way I can describe it is a bitter, astringent note in the aftertaste. It's almost a bit like the bitterness that comes from the hops, but moreso.

I was very diligent with all my cleaning and sanitation. As I said, it tasted great immediately before bottling. This off note has only appeared since bottling. I have stored the bottles at room temp (72f) in my basement. No exposure to light except for the occasions when the light is on in the room, which isn't too frequent.

My question is, what do you think could have caused this? Is it possible that this off-note will disappear with time, or is it likely that it's only going to get worse? Given my lack of experience, any info you guys can provide would be very helpful. I have another batch in primary right now and want to avoid any pitfalls I may have had with the first one.

Give it time. It hasn't even been in the bottle for two weeks yet. It should continue to develop and within a few weeks should settle down.

Any bottle bombs or gushers? I had an extremely similar case with an IPA I brewed last year. I've concluded now that the problem was heavy overcarbonation. That was in a keg, though. I've never bottled, and I'm not even sure a bottle can withstand the pressure it takes for overcarbonation to cause astringency.

ksbrain said:

Give it time. It hasn't even been in the bottle for two weeks yet. It should continue to develop and within a few weeks should settle down.

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I will definitely monitor the brew over the next 2-3 weeks and see if it improves. It just seemed odd to be that its actually developing a strange flavor. Normally, I would expect any off flavors to be present at bottling and dissipate later. However, given that I am very new at this, that may not be the case.

TheMerkle said:

Any bottle bombs or gushers? I had an extremely similar case with an IPA I brewed last year. I've concluded now that the problem was heavy overcarbonation. That was in a keg, though. I've never bottled, and I'm not even sure a bottle can withstand the pressure it takes for overcarbonation to cause astringency.

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No bottle bombs or gushers. Carbonation levels seem good.

It could be a carbonic derived off flavor, from too much carbonation. That can cause a harsh minerally kind of flavor that could be perceived as bitterness.

For what its worth, a cream ale is a challenging beer for anyone to brew, let alone a first time brewer. Its light and modestly flavored, meaning that flaws are more easily detectable (or not covered up by big hops or roasted grain)

Welcome to the hobby!

If your beer is about the color of Bud Light or Coors Light, but not much darker than Miller Lite, and you used liquid extract at the end of the boil, I would say that the extract was fresh. If your beer isn't this color, some of the off flavors could be coming from liquid extract that has staled. Another indicator of old extract could be an OG higher than 1.012 for this very fermentable style.

As a beer ages the hop character will change. Some essential oils may improve, but generally they fade. Some esters may fade as well, particularly in styles with prominent esters such as weizen styles. Malt character comes from the same kinds of reactions that give bread, toast and caramel their characteristic flavor. Bread can stale and so can beer. While it may seem a bit early to worry about staling, a cream ale doesn't have the melanoidins that slow oxidation (they are antioxidants) that darker color beers have. Introducing oxygen after innoculating the beer with yeast will speed up the rate at which beer will go stale. Furthermore, storing the beer at room temperature will stale the beer much faster than storing it at 40 degrees. I store my beers at room temperature and I haven't had any problems, but I'm aware of this risk.

Given that your beer tastes like it is degrading, I'm inclined to believe that you may have oxigenated your beer during bottling. However, given how young the beer is, I have some reservations about suggesting your beer is stale.

Also, as Pappers has said, carbonation affects the percieved bitterness of a beer. With this in mind, you may want to wait until it has fully carbonated. When you decide to drink it, try tasting it at different temperatures and see if your beer was too cold. In the meantime, get yourself some Genesee Cream Ale. This is the commercial example of the style. Compare it to what you made.

Water (tap?) (presence of chlorine or chloramines)
fermentation temperature (low end of yeast recommendations, to allow for exothermic increase)
yeast pitching rates (volume of yeast)

Ashella said:

I will definitely monitor the brew over the next 2-3 weeks and see if it improves. It just seemed odd to be that its actually developing a strange flavor. Normally, I would expect any off flavors to be present at bottling and dissipate later. However, given that I am very new at this, that may not be the case.

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During bottle conditioning, beer absolutely CAN develop strange flavors that are completely, 100% normal. Put the beer back away and come back to it again once it's had a full 3 weeks to condition!

When you add that priming sugar to the beer, you're inducing another small scale fermentation. Yeast, when fermenting, make alcohol and co2, but they also tend to throw off byproducts that sometimes create strange flavors, depending on the yeast strain. Given a little more time, the yeast will go and clean up those byproducts before they go dormant again, so by the end of the 3 weeks' conditioning time, the beer should taste almost exactly like it did at bottling, except now with carbonation.

Be patient, put the beer away, and don't worry about off flavors that occur while the beer is still developing!

Hang Glider said:

Water (tap?) (presence of chlorine or chloramines)
fermentation temperature (low end of yeast recommendations, to allow for exothermic increase)
yeast pitching rates (volume of yeast)

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Water is city water, but good quality:


My fermentation took place at room temperature (72F), and was stable there the entire time.

The yeast used was Nottingham Dry Yeast, standard packet size, re-hydrated.

You will notice a big (and positive) change in your beer if you are able to ferment it about 10 degrees cooler. At 72, Nottingham will throw off some esters which may not be what you are looking for in a particular style, like cream ale.

A plastic bin or tub with water and frozen ice bottles are one low tech way.

also, you might think it was 72, but the beer will quickly reach 10F over ambient temps during the active phase (or more!). A water mass will absorb that heat as quickly as it develops and keep it stable.

Dry yeast is good, if liquid yeast, a starter is recommended. The chloride in your water may contribute to off tastes.
Try a batch with bottled spring water and put the fermenter in an ice chest filled with cool water - and keep it around 65F. you might be surprised at the results.

not to diminish the other suggestions - time is certainly important. From yeast pitch to bottle, I wait 3 weeks, minimum. Bigger beers are often 6-8.

Pappers_ said:

You will notice a big (and positive) change in your beer if you are able to ferment it about 10 degrees cooler. At 72, Nottingham will throw off some esters which may not be what you are looking for in a particular style, like cream ale.

A plastic bin or tub with water and frozen ice bottles are one low tech way.

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This made a Huge difference in my beer. I use a cooler, fill it 1/2 with water and dump some ice in it. Then I cover the top with 2-3 towels and let the air temp level out then 1-2 frozen water bottles every 12 hours keeps the temp constant.

Interesting.... I brewed this exact same kit (first time brewing) and I feel that I ended up with a real yeasty taste to the beer. Maybe this kit gets super carbonated because mine was carbed a ton when I did a final gravity reading before bottling... Maybe your getting over carbonation tastes

WiscoMan said:

Interesting.... I brewed this exact same kit (first time brewing) and I feel that I ended up with a real yeasty taste to the beer. Maybe this kit gets super carbonated because mine was carbed a ton when I did a final gravity reading before bottling... Maybe your getting over carbonation tastes

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I definitely notice the yeasty notes you are talking about. Perhaps that's part of what I'm tasting. Since I'm new to this, it's hard for my palate to pick out indistinct flavors at this point.

I also know what you mean about the carbonation. When I drank my sample right before bottling, it was slightly carbonated already. Although, the current level of carbonation in the bottles is just about right. Who knows, in another week or so, maybe it will be too high.

I don't have much to add to the great advice in this thread but like the last post suggests, you are building a palate for beer... not just great beer but the new tastes that only brewers get to taste (most of them not great). IMO A palate is not something you are born with, you develop it as much as any other 'brewing' skills. It's a learning process. A wonderful one, marked with many buzzed sensations.

Lot's of good info in this thread.

I am still pretty new, but from what I have been told many kits come with a standard sized sugar pouch for all kits, and it is too much sugar for many types of brew.

I found my first batch to be way to over-carbed, and was directed by someone on this site to this calculator that can be used to find a more accurate amount of sugar to add at bottling:

http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/priming.html

It seems to have helped the carbonation stay reasonable on my last couple of batches.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! It's much appreciated.