Mash Speciality grains or steep??

do you add the speciality grains to your mash?? or do you steep the grains in your pot after you have done your mash?? thats one thing i'm not clear on.

you just steep grains for taste and color, would you get the same color and flavor if you mashed with your bulk grains?

and if you mash them, you could mash just the speciality grains when doing an extract brew right? just to kind of dip your toe into the whole mashing process??

sorry if these are stupid questions, just some thing i've been thinking about.

If you're talking about AG, you just mash everything together at once in most cases.

and if you mash them, you could mash just the speciality grains when doing an extract brew right? just to kind of dip your toe into the whole mashing process??

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If your doing an extract brew there's no need to mash the specialty grains,
Just steep them (soak) at about 150f for 30 minutes. Remove (Don't squeeze them) then carry on.

Mashing is only done if you are relying on the grains for their sugar content.
In extract the sugar come in the Extract. You can mash and sparge if you want to though.

sorry if these are stupid questions, just some thing i've been thinking about.

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there's no stupid questions just stupid answers.

many brewers only mash in the fermentable grains (2-row, 6-row, etc), and when they get ready to sparge, they add in the specialty grains (chocolate malt, biscuit malt, etc.).

DeRoux's Broux said:

many brewers only mash in the fermentable grains (2-row, 6-row, etc), and when they get ready to sparge, they add in the specialty grains (chocolate malt, biscuit malt, etc.).

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Really? Why would you do that?

El Pistolero said:

Really? Why would you do that?

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Minimises any possibility of extracting tannins. I've never had a probelm personally.

Never heard of doing that myself, but I can see that working in the right setup. I just throw everything together; less to worry about.

yep, what mikey said (thanks mikey!).
i don't do it, but it's an option.....

Mikey said:

Minimises any possibility of extracting tannins. I've never had a probelm personally.

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So tannin extraction is more of a problem for specialty grains than it is for base malts?

Learned something new early today...guess I can go ahead and call it a day. Thanks guys.

AG- you mash it all, if your waters the right temperature you dont have to worry about tannin extraction. you do need a base grain with high amounts of diastatic enzymes to support the specialty grains sugar conversions. if i understand that coreectly....

Partial mash/extract- i always give my specialty grains a little mash and sparge. since doing so my brews have had higher og's, and been much fuller tasting, no mre watery thinness. of course its not required, but it gets more sugars out (fermentable or not), which adds alcohol, body, and character. works realy well with a lb. or two of 2-row (or some other base grain) thrown in.

I read something in BYO, I believe in the "10 dark brews" or whatever issue this year, that mentioned something about adding the dark grains on top of the mash "to improve lautering", but the article didn't go into details and I couldn't find anything anywhere that referenced that technique. I'm confizzled and going home.

what issue was that? i may have missed one damn it!?!?!?!??!

justbrewit said:

do you add the speciality grains to your mash?? or do you steep the grains in your pot after you have done your mash?? thats one thing i'm not clear on.

you just steep grains for taste and color, would you get the same color and flavor if you mashed with your bulk grains?

and if you mash them, you could mash just the speciality grains when doing an extract brew right? just to kind of dip your toe into the whole mashing process??

sorry if these are stupid questions, just some thing i've been thinking about.

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My advice would be for you to gain an understanding of Beta Amylase and Alpha Amylese enzymes and how they convert your grain sugars. (palmers book would be a good start )

Mashing is the process of converting carbohydrates to sugars.

Steeping grains is the process of extracting the already converted complex sugars.

Specialty grains have undergone kilning temperatures of various degrees. The temperature has much to do with how sugars are converted to fermentables and non-fermentables. Since specialty grains have already under gone most of their conversions most folks just extract the sugars by steeping (Extract Brewers).

Some brewers wait during the last step of their step mashes to throw in
the specialty malts while others throw them in at the start of the mash just for convenience.

You will get some conversion of the complex sugars from the specialty grains during the mashing processes but I believe it would be extremly hard to tell from the tasters point of view when you added these grains. With that said, you could tell through scientific analysis what actually occured.

I am no expert by any means . This is just my limited knowledge of brewing. Hope it helps.

I wouldn't worry too much about having the sugars in specialty malts breaking down. At least as far as crystal malts go, it sounds like the sugars are "trapped", and even lightly carmalized malts are left pretty much untouched.

Err... *digs through archive* Here we go: http://www.pbm.com/pipermail/hist-brewing/2002/003309.html.

Having had a major stuck mash, I could see putting things like rye and oatmeal on top. I'd still mash them though.

Mikey said:

Minimises any possibility of extracting tannins. I've never had a probelm personally.

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That's not correct.

The reason specialty grains sometimes aren't mashed is because the starches are already converted to sugars in the kilning process.
Tannin extraction will only occur if it is steeped too long or too hot.

DeRoux's Broux said:

what issue was that? i may have missed one damn it!?!?!?!??!

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September 2005..."10 Clones from the Dark Side". I've brewed three of them: Dogfish Head India Nut Brown (very good), Dominion Oak Barrel Stout (more or less...I used too much oak), and Grand Teton's ***** Creek ESB (excellent! Probably going to do another batch and keg it).

Anyways, towards the end of the article before they get into the actual recipes there is a paragraph that reads:

The recipes are presented here in both all-grain and extract versions. All-grain brewers can follow their normal procedures, with the option of stirring the dark grains into the top layer of the mash to aid in lautering.

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I may ask on the green board, or just e-mail byo.

guess i didn't get that issue? another casualty of Rita!

I'd glanced through that article, but not really looked close...there are a lot of great recipes there! That Avery New World Porter is killer...hoppy like a pale ale but in a porter. I could easily see spending my next ten batches brewing everything in that article.

I've been kind of stuck on that article for months now. The next one I was planning to do from the article was either going to be the Avery or the Lagunitas Cappuccino Stout. Guess I'll try the Avery!

DRB, I believe on BYO's website they have a link for requesting replacements of issues lost in the mail...you might get lucky there.

BeeGee said:

I've been kind of stuck on that article for months now. The next one I was planning to do from the article was either going to be the Avery or the Lagunitas Cappuccino Stout. Guess I'll try the Avery!

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I haven't had the Cappuccino Stout, but Lagunitas Imperial Stout is outstanding! I'm fixin to have one of those in a bit, as soon as I fix dinner for the kids, which (speaking of hijacking) will be fried chicken, mashed potatoes, and gravy. Mmmmm carbs...we will enjoy them.

Throw in some green beans and I'll be headed southwest. (SWMBO got a headstart getting to Mexico yesterday and I'm not motivated to cook)