My One Vessel AG System

wobdee said:

I thought about taking it out, dumping the grain and using it for hops but I would need to get it out of the way when it's time for my immersion chiller. It only takes a few minutes to dump the grain and rinse off.

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Why? Drop the chiller in at the last 15 minutes for sanitation and chill with the larger basket in situ. I don't see any reason that wouldn't work. The biggest issue there is making sure you get all the grain out of the basket between mash and boil.

Gotcha.

uberg33k said:

Why? Drop the chiller in at the last 15 minutes for sanitation and chill with the larger basket in situ. I don't see any reason that wouldn't work. The biggest issue there is making sure you get all the grain out of the basket between mash and boil.

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Yeah, I suppose it could work. Wonder how whirlpooloing would go with that basket in there?

wobdee said:

Yeah, I suppose it could work. Wonder how whirlpooloing would go with that basket in there?

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In this case, who cares about whirlpooling? The point to whirlpooling is to help separate trub from wort. You're doing that mechanically with a screen (your basket). You don't need to whirlpool as you're effectively straining all the wort at once. Just wait till it's cool so cold break has a chance to form and you should be golden.

uberg33k said:

In this case, who cares about whirlpooling? The point to whirlpooling is to help separate trub from wort. You're doing that mechanically with a screen (your basket). You don't need to whirlpool as you're effectively straining all the wort at once. Just wait till it's cool so cold break has a chance to form and you should be golden.

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Ok, you guys talked me into it, I'll give it a try tomorrow and report back with more pics.

Maybe not! Just tried boiling some water with the basket in there and it was forming a big air bubble underneath and then it would burp with the whole basket rising up and splashing water. Maybe it's got something to do with the induction burner?

wobdee said:

Ok, you guys talked me into it, I'll give it a try tomorrow and report back with more pics.

Maybe not! Just tried boiling some water with the basket in there and it was forming a big air bubble underneath and then it would burp with the whole basket rising up and splashing water. Maybe it's got something to do with the induction burner?

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Take a magnet to the basket. Does it stick? If so, it might be an issue with the induction. If not, there's just too much air building up. The mesh might be fine enough where it's not easy for the air to pass through, so it has to pass on the outside. I would think it would be fine if the basket was weighed down or held down, letting the air bubble up on the sides, but it's hard to say.

Just finished my 2nd attempt, excuse the grammer and lack of detail cuz I've been drinking IPA homebrew all day!

Thanks to my brewing biatch (metalhead) for the help.

With the changes I got a little better efficiency according to Promash, 74% verses 70%. I'm thinking a finer crush would probably give me more but 70% is good enough for me. The grain mill I used is set at .45.

The grill rack is much better, I can push down and squeeze much harder and only lost .25gl from grain absorsion.

My kettle held mash temp of 150-153 for 1 hour no problem with the lid on and no heat so I'm happy with that. I mashed for 1 hour then raised temp up to 170 which took about 15 min then raised the basket to drain.

The basket drained great and I squeezed pretty hard but didn't kill myself trying to get every last drop out.

This whole brew day was very simple and clean up was a breeze with only one vessel. The gain basket is easy to clean, just dump the grains and rinse. There are a few kernnals that don't like to dump out but you can wipe them right out with a paper towel.

Pretty happy with this system, I recommend Chad's great work!

Few more pics

After I squeezed the grains it was just a normal brew day, boil 60 min, flame out, chill and rack into carboy. Easy peazy!

I'm a bit confused here. Did you use the big basket for the hops?

uberg33k said:

I'm a bit confused here. Did you use the big basket for the hops?

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No he uses the basket for grains. Instead of brew in a bag it's brew in a basket. Looks good Todd

Looks like a great system for 2.5 g batches. How do you think it will work for 5 g? Obviously, the weight of the grain in the basket might be a concern. Additionally, how much strike water do you think would be needed to end up with 6.5-7g at the start of the boil?

blaster_54738 said:

No he uses the basket for grains. Instead of brew in a bag it's brew in a basket. Looks good Todd

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He spoke of cleaning the large basket and using it for good after the first test batch. He did a boil test and found it might be trapping bubbles. In the second batch, he speaks of cleaning the basket after mash making its use in boil ambiguous.

hanson95 said:

Looks like a great system for 2.5 g batches. How do you think it will work for 5 g? Obviously, the weight of the grain in the basket might be a concern. Additionally, how much strike water do you think would be needed to end up with 6.5-7g at the start of the boil?

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I think I could squeak out a 5gl batch with my system but it would be close. I used 3.75gl of strike water for this batch that gave me 3.5gl at the start of the boil, so I'd say maybe double that for a 5gl batch or a little less? If I was a 5gl brewer I think I'd want at least a 10gl kettle.

There was 5.5 lbs of grain in this batch and it was nothing to lift it out. I could see where larger amounts in a 5gl batch could get a bit heavy. Maybe a pully system above would be a good idea?

uberg33k said:

He spoke of cleaning the large basket and using it for good after the first test batch. He did a boil test and found it might be trapping bubbles. In the second batch, he speaks of cleaning the basket after mash making its use in boil ambiguous.

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Yep, I used the big basket for the mash only and have a smaller 4x10" basket for hops. I didn't like how the bigger basket worked in my test boil. It burped up water and didn't give a good rolling boil.

I believe I would want to go with a 15 gal min for 5 gal batch. If you were to plan on 5gal or less into fermenter and light grain bills, you could probably get away with a 10ga, but what fun is that?! Personally, I try to plan on bottling 5gal (~5.5gal into primary) and would not want to be held to 1.044 batches because of MLT size. Guess size matters after all (sad news)..........

I'm sure Chad would build a basket of any size someone would need. The s/s mesh size comes in various sizes as well but my 400 micron seems to drain quite well. Maybe beef up the bottom a bit for lager grain bills.

Next up for me is a Hopslam clone in a couple weeks. Should be about the biggest beer I make in this system with 8lbs of grain.

wobdee said:

Thanks to my brewing biatch (metalhead) for the help.

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I accept beer as a form of wage!

That way I can tell people I make "40 thousand" per year for brewing. 40 thousand ounces that is....

MetallHed said:

I accept beer as a form of wage!

That way I can tell people I make "40 thousand" per year for brewing. 40 thousand ounces that is....

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Well, your going to be a rich man then!

wobdee said:

Yep, I used the big basket for the mash only and have a smaller 4x10" basket for hops. I didn't like how the bigger basket worked in my test boil. It burped up water and didn't give a good rolling boil.

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Looks great! I was wondering about using the basket in the boil when we've been having the discussion about the wort not boiling in the smaller screens, thanks for clearing that up.

Awesome Idea! I may have to get a basket and give this a try.

Here is the stainless BIAB that I came up with and had Chad build, his build quality is excellent by the way. Once my heat exchanger and pump is complete, I will recirculate the wort similar to a RIMS system. Hopefully it works like I think it should.

Skidsmint said:

Here is the stainless BIAB that I came up with and had Chad build, his build quality is excellent by the way. Once my heat exchanger and pump is complete, I will recirculate the wort similar to a RIMS system. Hopefully it works like I think it should.

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How do you boil in this setup?

That looks like an awesome system skidmint. Keep us posted.

I won't boil in this. I will transfer to my boil kettle. My PID allows up to 8 temp settings so I can do a step mash.

Skidsmint said:

I won't boil in this. I will transfer to my boil kettle. My PID allows up to 8 temp settings so I can do a step mash.

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What are you using for a heat exchanger and pump?

Skidsmint said:

I won't boil in this. I will transfer to my boil kettle. My PID allows up to 8 temp settings so I can do a step mash.

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So the basket is simply replacing a false bottom?

Excellent informative thread this!

I'm building a heater pipe out of stainless pipe and a hot water heater element. I will use my PID to control the mash temps. I bought a Chugger SS pump and it should be here by Friday. The brew basket replace the false bottom or a bag in BIAB. Looking forward to next weekend!

Skidsmint said:

I'm building a heater pipe out of stainless pipe and a hot water heater element. I will use my PID to control the mash temps. I bought a Chugger SS pump and it should be here by Friday. The brew basket replace the false bottom or a bag in BIAB. Looking forward to next weekend!

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Please post some pictures if you get a chance next weekend. Sounds like an interesting idea.

If the sides are mesh then you were better off with just a false bottom from what I've read. At least from an efficiency standpoint. You want the water/wort to recirculate through the entire grain bed.

Hermit said:

If the sides are mesh then you were better off with just a false bottom from what I've read. At least from an efficiency standpoint. You want the water/wort to recirculate through the entire grain bed.

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A FB isn't BIAB, though, and would require more than two vessels.

MetallHed said:

A FB isn't BIAB, though, and would require more than two vessels.

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So the cooler isn't a second vessel? Once he went the cooler and pump it became something else and a traditional false bottom would have been a less expensive. He would also have the benefit of he bed filtering his wort. This much expense and effort for a system that was developed to get around having to build a traditional system seems counter intuitive to me. I do BIAB except with a second sparge pot simply because I happen to have one. If I were going through this effort I'd have gone more traditional.

So far, so good! It's working like I thought it would. I'm doing a NB Black Ipa that's a single infusion mash so I don't need my heater pipe on this one. My Chugger pump came yesterday and is recirculating the mash, it is very quiet! I need to trim my tubing a little but other than that, it is a pretty compact set up and isn't taking up much space on my kitchen counter. I'll try and post some video also.

Looking good Skidsmint. How long did you mash for and how well did it hold temp? It will be interesting to see what kind of efficiencies you get with that setup. Also looking forward to your video.

I did a 90 minute mash and the temp dropped 7 degrees. I had the pump going for the whole 90 minutes so the drop really isn't that bad.

Skidsmint said:

I did a 90 minute mash and the temp dropped 7 degrees. I had the pump going for the whole 90 minutes so the drop really isn't that bad.

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Next time try this: Instead of using the pump and recirculating, simply do your infusion and then let it set.

I bet that you'll find that the temp doesn't drop more than 2-3 degrees over 90 minutes (instead of 7 degrees).

Consider this: Your pump and hoses actually act like a heat exchanger, pulling 150 degree wort out of the cooler and exposing it to room temperature air, effectivly cooling it for the complete duration of the mash time. Unless you have a means to add heat to the wort while recirculating (RIMS, etc) you are actually defeating the purpose of the insulated mash tun.

BTDT, got the t-shirt to prove it.

thughes said:

Next time try this: Instead of using the pump and recirculating, simply do your infusion and then let it set.

I bet that you'll find that the temp doesn't drop more than 2-3 degrees over 90 minutes (instead of 7 degrees).

Consider this: Your pump and hoses actually act like a heat exchanger, pulling 150 degree wort out of the cooler and exposing it to room temperature air, effectivly cooling it for the complete duration of the mash time. Unless you have a means to add heat to the wort while recirculating (RIMS, etc) you are actually defeating the purpose of the insulated mash tun.

BTDT, got the t-shirt to prove it.

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I thought about the temp loss after I had already started so next time I will use the heater manifold pipe to keep the temps steady. After everything was all said and done, it was a pretty successful brew day and I hit 76% efficiency according to iBrewmaster. Since this was the first time that I have used this set up I really just wanted to get a feel for how it will work and I'm sure I will tweak a few things on the next brew.

Hermit said:

So the cooler isn't a second vessel? Once he went the cooler and pump it became something else and a traditional false bottom would have been a less expensive. He would also have the benefit of he bed filtering his wort. This much expense and effort for a system that was developed to get around having to build a traditional system seems counter intuitive to me. I do BIAB except with a second sparge pot simply because I happen to have one. If I were going through this effort I'd have gone more traditional.

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You never quoted who you were replying to, so I thought you were talking about the OP's (wobdee) set up.

Skidsmint said:

I thought about the temp loss after I had already started so next time I will use the heater manifold pipe to keep the temps steady. After everything was all said and done, it was a pretty successful brew day and I hit 76% efficiency according to iBrewmaster. Since this was the first time that I have used this set up I really just wanted to get a feel for how it will work and I'm sure I will tweak a few things on the next brew.

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Did you squeeze the grains or do a sparge? I still have some tweaking to do on my system. My last batch was way under the OG I was hoping for. I like the recirculating idea and might steal your idea if my efficiency doesn't get more consistant.