How do you do a protein rest?

What is the time and temp? I have read 125f for 25 min.
How do you do it? Warm up the mash to 125f for the time needed by adding water hot enough to warm up the grain in the MLT and once time is up jsut add in the rest of the water to get up to the desired temp for the mash?

How much water do you add initially for the rest? 1qt per lb or grain?

What I have read says that it helps clarity in the beer. I am not too concerned about that cause I am doing a traditional type hefe. Any other reason for the rest?
Thanks for the help.

I can't think of a good reason to do a protein rest on a traditional hefe. Protein rests aren't usually necessary anyway, and on a beer defined by cloudiness it'd just be a waste of time.

If you do decide to do one, your procedure sounds like it would work just fine. You could also make a protein rest part of a decoction schedule.

Thanks for the info.
Ummmm.... about that.
What is a decoction schedule?

dwarven_stout said:

I can't think of a good reason to do a protein rest on a traditional hefe. Protein rests aren't usually necessary anyway, and on a beer defined by cloudiness it'd just be a waste of time.

If you do decide to do one, your procedure sounds like it would work just fine. You could also make a protein rest part of a decoction schedule.

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I agree.

A protien rest breaks down proteins that should make up the body of the beer. Sometimes these are haze forming proteins too - but haze is OK in wheat beers.

It's funny to me that some people talk of doing protien rests for Oatmeal Stouts, for example. The point of adding Oatmeal is to create body, which comes primarily from the proteins. Doing a protein rest, counteracts that effect. It's not 'wrong' or 'bad' - but as dwarven said - it's kind of a waste.

Lando said:

Thanks for the info.
Ummmm.... about that.
What is a decoction schedule?

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If you don't know, don't worry! It's not something you need.

Check it out on google. You'll get more information than you've bargained for!

Don't Do It! Don't Look Up Decoctions!!!!!! Nooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

Ahhhh......My eyes!
Should have listened!

Lando said:

Ahhhh......My eyes!
Should have listened!

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In found memory of Lando. Though he was warned, thy temptations have taken another brother to the dark side to be tormented for all of eternity.
R.I.P. Lando

I want to do a protein rest but I don´t know how. I´ve seen some people who use 6h malt and do a protein rest and I want to try that because its cheaper but I don´t know how to do it. I´ve looked on google and couldn´t find a clear answer.

I would use a kettle as a mash tun. Is is just to raise the temp after the rest?

The question is how do I increase the temperature?

If you don't have a way to directly raise the temperature, mash in a bit thicker than normal and boil a portion of strike water to add to the mash after the rest to bring it to saccharification temps. Use an online calculator to determine the appropriate volumes.

jmark said:

If you don't have a way to directly raise the temperature, mash in a bit thicker than normal and boil a portion of strike water to add to the mash after the rest to bring it to saccharification temps. Use an online calculator to determine the appropriate volumes.

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Wich would be a Way to directly increase the temperature?

Todes said:

Wich would be a Way to directly increase the temperature?

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Mash in your boil kettle. Put some insulation around it to keep the temps as constant as possible.

Heat your strike water to the right temperature, add the grain and stir well, adjust the temp to exactly where you want it to be by either adding some cold water or by slowly heating the kettle while stirring constantly, bringing the mash from the bottom to the top. Once you hit your protein rest temp ~122F, turn heat off, cover with (insulated) lid, and let sit for 15-20 minutes max. No longer, or you may start losing foam stability.

Then raise the heat slowly and gradually to reach your saccharification temp (146-160F), again under constant stirring, so you don't scorch the grain. Cover and let rest for an hour, maybe adding a little heat halfway again to keep the temps. Raise the heat (again stir well!) to do a mashout at 170F and hold there for 10-15 minutes. Scoop or dump your grain into your mash tun for lautering. Rinse your kettle and boil the collected wort.

For most beers a protein rest is not needed or even wanted as it may kill head retention. If you have large amounts of (sticky) adjuncts like raw or flaked wheat, rye, oats, or barley, or a particularly high protein grain, or a highly undermodified malt, a combined beta-glucan/protein rest for 15-20 minutes at 122F is recommended to be able to ease lautering the wort.

How do you do a protein rest?

Lando said:

How do you do it?
Thanks for the help.

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I go to a place called "Golden Corral" and get the steak on buffet.
Which is a high protein food.
Then i return home and lay on my arse.
If they served beer...i think i'd live there.

IslandLizard said:

Mash in your boil kettle. Put some insulation around it to keep the temps as constant as possible.

Heat your strike water to the right temperature, add the grain and stir well, adjust the temp to exactly where you want it to be by either adding some cold water or by slowly heating the kettle while stirring constantly, bringing the mash from the bottom to the top. Once you hit your protein rest temp ~122F, turn heat off, cover with (insulated) lid, and let sit for 15-20 minutes max. No longer, or you may start losing foam stability.

Then raise the heat slowly and gradually to reach your saccharification temp (146-160F), again under constant stirring, so you don't scorch the grain. Cover and let rest for an hour, maybe adding a little heat halfway again to keep the temps. Raise the heat (again stir well!) to do a mashout at 170F and hold there for 10-15 minutes. Scoop or dump your grain into your mash tun for lautering. Rinse your kettle and boil the collected wort.

For most beers a protein rest is not needed or even wanted as it may kill head retention. If you have large amounts of (sticky) adjuncts like raw or flaked wheat, rye, oats, or barley, or a particularly high protein grain, or a highly undermodified malt, a combined beta-glucan/protein rest for 15-20 minutes at 122F is recommended to be able to ease lautering the wort.

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Thank you, that really helped me

Great info from Island.

The quality of malt needs to be considered before determining if a protein rest will be used or for that matter any rest other than a single temperature saccharification rest.
Modern, high modified malt has become a staple in the home brew world because it goes along with the single infusion method which home brewers have been taught to use for producing Ale and Lager.
Usually, high modification and high protein are linked together. The exception to the rule is Marris Otter. The malt is very highly modified but, it is low in protein. In my opinion, the malt would be great for distillation.
In high modified malt the richness in enzymes is poor and when malt is high in protein it contains less sugar. To use certain temperatures, especially the lower temperatures would be fruitless because the enzymes that activate at the temperature are pretty much wiped out.

Back to the protein rest and assuming that high quality malt is used.
A protein rest at 122 to 125F is performed only in a small portion of the mash. Usually, during the first decoction.

Try this.
Crush 30 to 40% of the grain bill into a kettle, crush the remainder into another kettle.
We will call the 30-40% kettle the decoction kettle and the other kettle the main mash. Next.

We are going to forget about the main mash for now.

Dough in the grain in the decoction kettle with 50 to 60F RO water at 1 qt/lb and let the mash rest for 15 minutes. During the rest the inherent pH of the malt will reduce pH of the mash liquid. After 15 minutes check pH and lower the pH to around 5.5 using sauer malz. Allow time for the sauer malz to reduce and stabilize mash pH before adding more sauer malz. Next.

Begin to heat the decoction to 122F going no higher than 125F. Proteinase will activate. Rest the mash for 15 to 20 minutes, then, increase the temperature to 155F going no higher than 158F. Rest the mash for 20 minutes and test for starch using iodine, if starch is present wait 10 more minutes and test again. If starch is still present, not to worry. Next.

Begin to boil the decoction. Next.

The moment the decoction begins to boil you are going to infuse hot RO water into the dry, main mash. Use 1 qt/lb. The temperature of the main mash needs to be 95F and no higher than 105F. Reduce pH to 5.5 and close the lid. The main mash will rest during the length of time that the decoction boils. Next.

As the decoction boils skim off the brown surface gunk/mud and after boiling for at least 20 minutes add the decoction to the main mash. The temperature needs to be increased in the main mash to 130F and no higher than 133F. Proteinase will release glucose from Beta Glucan and mash viscosity will reduce. Use boiling water if the decoction volume was not great enough to increase the temperature to 130F. Maintain the temperature closely, no temp swing during the rest. Next.

As soon as the main mash temperature is stable at 130F or so, remove about one third of the main mash and place it in the decoction kettle. Remove enough mash liquid so that at least an half inch of liquid covers the grain bed. Close the lid on the main mash and maintain 130F as close as possible. To figure out the 1/3 thing, for horseshoe and hand grenade accuracy figure that a gallon of saturated mash weighs around eight pound give or take. Next.

Begin heating the decoction mash to 140F and no higher than 145F, conversion will begin. Rest the mash for 15 to 20 minutes and take it to a boil. Boil the mash for at least 15 minutes skimming off hot break. Next.

Return the boiling decoction to the main mash. The temperature of the main mash needs to reach 153F, keep it tight. Use boiling water if necessary. Reduce pH to 5.2 going no lower than 4.6. The sourness may be detected in the final product at 4.6 which may be OK in certain styles of beer. Rest the mash for 20 minutes.
When the boiling decoctions are added back into the cooler temperature main mash, the mash begins to jell. It is called gelatinization. It has to do with starch called amylo-pectin. The starch is heat resistant but, at boiling temperature the starch ruptures and enters into solution. During the 153F rest Alpha will release A and B limit dextrin a tasteless, non-fermenting sugar responsible for body from the starch chain. It is called dextrinization. With the single infusion method the starch ends up in the compost pile. Next.

After the main mash has rested at 153F for at least 20 minutes use boiling water to increase the temperature of the mash to 158F and rest it for 10 to 15 minutes. Next.

Depending on the style/type of beer being brewed you can stop at 158F and mash out or you can add another infusion of boiling water to raise the mash temperature to 162F, rest and then, mash out. Next.

After mash out transfer the mash to the lautertun, stir it up a couple of times and close the lid. After about 10 minutes or so the liquid on top of the grain bed should be clear enough to see the layer of protein mud on top of the grain bed. Try not to disturb the mud during vorlauf or when sparging. Keep at least two inches of water above the bed, it keeps down the turbulence when adding liquid. Now, here's the thing, depending on the malt sometimes gray mud will form. The stuff is water repellant. Sparge will take longer. Next.

Begin sparge. When the run off gravity is 1020 stop sparging and drain the lautertun until run off gravity drops to 1015. That's low enough.
As soon as the bottom of the wort boiler is covered with extract fire it up and continue to pump in the extract. As the wort boils skim off the hot break. When the hot break stops forming toss in the bittering hops and skim off the second hot break. Less bittering hops are needed because the wort will be clean.

Second fermentation will be required. The beer will not need to be artificially carbed with CO2 or sugar. It will naturally carbonate during the aging phase.

Todes said:

The question is how do I increase the temperature?

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depends on your equipment.
if you BIAB you lift the bag off the bottom of the pot and turn up the heat
if your mash tun has a false bottom you can heat the bottom, or you can add some boiling water, there is a mash temperature calculator around here that will tell you how much to add.

what is your equipment?

I eat meat and then take a nap.

Good! Now you may have your pudding.