Clone Beer Founder's Breakfast Stout Clone

I just bottled mine last night. I think I had it in primary for 5 weeks and secondary for 2 and half weeks. Longer than planned, but I don't foresee any issues from it. I used a Kona blend for my cold brewed coffee and it definitely had a lot of coffee flavor. It finished at 1.018 from 1.074 which puts it at 7.6% I think. Now to wait longer, this should be awesome. I kept sampling it last night, then couldn't fall asleep due to the caffeine and a thunderstorm at 330am.

I am going to brew this up on Fathers Day... I made a mistake and ordered Black Roasted Barley instead of Roasted Barley. Will the substitution be a bad idea? The SRM on BRB is 500, and RB is 300. But, I see that BRB imparts a dryer finish, so not sure if thats something I should be messing with on this beer. What do you all think?

Sorry, I can't help you as I don't know enough about ingredients. Sounds like a small change to me, but I'm no expert.

Anyway, I'm drinking mine right now. It's been about 6 weeks since bottling and it's still awesome. I'm annoyed because I thought I had an actual FBS in my fridge, but when I pulled it out, it was a home brew where I didn't remove the label I was hoping to compare. Oh well.

arborman said:

I am going to brew this up on Fathers Day... I made a mistake and ordered Black Roasted Barley instead of Roasted Barley. Will the substitution be a bad idea? The SRM on BRB is 500, and RB is 300. But, I see that BRB imparts a dryer finish, so not sure if thats something I should be messing with on this beer. What do you all think?

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I'm still pretty new, but my thoughts would be to cut the amount you are putting in to almost 1/2 what the recipe is calling for to help equal out the color if you are doing an extract brew. For all grain, I'm not too sure. Just my 2 cents

arborman said:

I am going to brew this up on Fathers Day... I made a mistake and ordered Black Roasted Barley instead of Roasted Barley. Will the substitution be a bad idea? The SRM on BRB is 500, and RB is 300. But, I see that BRB imparts a dryer finish, so not sure if thats something I should be messing with on this beer. What do you all think?

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i say don't worry about it and just make a 1 for 1 substitution. although 300 to 500 sounds like a lot, at that point it's black vs. very black. you won't be affecting the beer that much. just go for it.

sweetcell said:

i say don't worry about it and just make a 1 for 1 substitution. although 300 to 500 sounds like a lot, at that point it's black vs. very black. you won't be affecting the beer that much. just go for it.

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Thanks guys, for the thoughts. I should have mentioned that color is not a concern at all... I was more worried about altering the taste/body of the beer, I've read that BRB vs RB can dry out a beer much more. I am worried about drying it out too much by using BRB, but perhaps I'm being too concerned?

I am brewing this in the next couple of days. I have all my ingredients minus the yeast, but I will be getting it tomorrow. This is the first time I have used any coffee in my brewing, so I have been doing a good bit of research in this thread and all over on the cold brewing aspect. The best ratio I have found is to use 9 cups of water to every 1/2 lb of coffee, so I am going to use 2.25 cups for my 2 oz. I don't have a French Press, so I am just gonna go the mason jar route using a hop bag as a sieve. The only other thing I am debating is to if I want to just go ahead and cold brew the Sumatra to add at flameout or if I want to just put the 2oz in a hop bag.

What ratio is recommended? Did most of you add grounds in a bag or cold brew at flameout?

arborman said:

I am going to brew this up on Fathers Day... I made a mistake and ordered Black Roasted Barley instead of Roasted Barley. Will the substitution be a bad idea? The SRM on BRB is 500, and RB is 300. But, I see that BRB imparts a dryer finish, so not sure if thats something I should be messing with on this beer. What do you all think?

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Should be fine I think.

There's enough going on in this beer that you won't really pick up on it. Color will be darker SRM wise, but it's already black.

Awesome, thanks guys.... Im just going to stick with the BRB then. Looking forward to making this.

On another note, I do have some other questions.... Per the OP recipe, I am using a mash ratio of 1.33 qt/lb in my 10 gal igloo MT. I am doing a 6 gallon sized batch. Mash water volume is 7.45 gallons, leaving me only 2.56 gallons to batch sparge with. That seems like a very small amount of water to rinse 20lbs of grains. Should I be switching over to a thicker mash ratio so I can have more sparge volume? Ive been reading this thread, and noted the importance of a batch sparge "mash out".

arborman said:

Awesome, thanks guys.... Im just going to stick with the BRB then. Looking forward to making this.

On another note, I do have some other questions.... Per the OP recipe, I am using a mash ratio of 1.33 qt/lb in my 10 gal igloo MT. I am doing a 6 gallon sized batch. Mash water volume is 7.45 gallons, leaving me only 2.56 gallons to batch sparge with. That seems like a very small amount of water to rinse 20lbs of grains. Should I be switching over to a thicker mash ratio so I can have more sparge volume? Ive been reading this thread, and noted the importance of a batch sparge "mash out".

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Just drain the tun with the first runnings, and then once it's all empty, add your sparge water... Not sure what the issue is?

Mash as normal...

If I do this again, I will do a smaller ratio than 1.33 qt/lb. I also didn't mash out and I think I could have got more concentrated wort sparging correctly. My main problem was too much liquid and not enough time to boil it all down when I had to work the next day. I may have got a little more than 5 gallons, but OG was 1.074. Not worried about it, but just tweaks I would do next time. It will just about fill a 10 gallon cooler.

^^^^^^^

This is true. I mashed in a 10 gal Rubbermaid cooler, which I normally do on a chair, because it makes stirring easier. Then my habit is to lift it onto a workbench next to the chair to lauter. I almost couldn't lift it, the mash came to within 1.5" of the rim.

But it's worth it.....this recipe is so good!

pabloj13 said:

You can see what I did here.

Here were my extras:
2oz ground sumatran coffee at flameout

2oz ground Kona, cold pressed, at bottling

2.5 oz dark bittersweet chocolate at 15'

1.5 oz unsweetened chocolate at 15'

I know some have used powder before. I just had solids laying around.

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I'm going to add some coffee to a double chocolate stout (from AHS) I'll be brewing soon, and wondering the best way to do it... Was thinking cold pressed into secondary. How much liquid did you steep/cold-press that 2oz of ground coffee in? A cup, pint, quart? And I saw you secondaried it for 60 days on this one - at what point did you add it, and or how long did you leave it? Any other tips you (or anyone) have for adding coffee? Am wanting a good balance of course - good coffee flavor and aroma without it overpowering the rest of the flavors. Thanks for any info!

If I'm adding it to secondary, I don't really like cold steeping after I've used it a few times.

The best thing I've found, is to dry bean it. I'll crack some fresh beans open, don't grind them, or I'll even leave them whole and drop an ounce in the bottom of the secondary. Taste it after 2-3 days and see what you think.. If it needs more, add more, or let it sit longer. Gets a nice smooth, yet powerful coffee flavor. Much like you'd smell in a coffee shop, instead of dull coffee you'd smell in a 7-11.

FATC1TY said:

If I'm adding it to secondary, I don't really like cold steeping after I've used it a few times.

The best thing I've found, is to dry bean it. I'll crack some fresh beans open, don't grind them, or I'll even leave them whole and drop an ounce in the bottom of the secondary. Taste it after 2-3 days and see what you think.. If it needs more, add more, or let it sit longer. Gets a nice smooth, yet powerful coffee flavor. Much like you'd smell in a coffee shop, instead of dull coffee you'd smell in a 7-11.

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That's a great idea on the whole or cracked beans, thanks.
But what do you mean by "I don't really like cold steeping after I've used it a few times."? Used what a few times?

I brewed this yesterday and had poor efficiency for some reason. I went with #14 of 2-row because I had been having decent efficiency lately and should have gotten about 90 points out of it, but I ended up at 73. I upped the nugget addition to 1 oz, but everything else was to the recipe. It tasted wonderful and I pitched two packs of S-04, so maybe it will attenuate well enough to produce a full-bodied beer with a decent ABV. I am torn on adding the full 2 oz of Kona at bottling though being my OG was so low.

If you don't normally brew a big beer, your efficiency will take a drop of a couple of points because of that.. Probably the case.

Has anyone thought of turning this into a Canadian Breakfast Stout clone?

It looks like if you do maple syrup in the end of boil, in primary or in secondary, the yeast eats the sugar and takes more of the maple flavor with it. I've seen some reports of getting some maple flavor when bottling with it, but reports seem mixed. So I'm thinking my best bet would be to add maple extract at bottling or in secondary in order to get that strong maple flavor that was in CBS.

So I thinking of making a 2.5 gal batch of this breakfast stout recipe and splitting off into 2 x 1 gallon. 1 gallon would get the maple extract and one would get maple syrup to the bottle. Both would also get some bourbon (maybe soaked in oak chips) to replicate the maple bourbon barrel taste.

Anyone have any other ideas?

BlindFaith said:

I pitched two packs of S-04, so maybe it will attenuate well enough to produce a full-bodied beer with a decent ABV.

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you will either have high ABV or a full-bodies beer... but not both. if you get high attenuation, you'll have an above-average ABV - but the body will be on the thin side. you need less attenuation to leave behind body - but that achieved at the expense of high ABV.

sweetcell said:

you will either have high ABV or a full-bodies beer... but not both. if you get high attenuation, you'll have an above-average ABV - but the body will be on the thin side. you need less attenuation to leave behind body - but that achieved at the expense of high ABV.

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Indeed. I am just hoping for a finish at or below 28 points to give me at least 6% and a good enough body to have some mouthfeel. I guess I am just wanting what all brewer's want really: a good beer.

Brewed this last Monday, pitched onto a S-04 cake from a smoked porter I did in may. Down to 1.026/7 from 1.080/1. So we are at about 7.2%. Skipped the actual chocolate addition and just did 1 oz of cacao nibs at 15 mins and 4 oz of Guatemalan crushed at 180f with a 20 minute "bean stand". Thinking about throwing an additional oz of nibs in some vodka and then adding it when I transfer to secondary. Any body added nibs to secondary, any feedback?

TwinsBrewers81 said:

Brewed this last Monday, pitched onto a S-04 cake from a smoked porter I did in may. Down to 1.026/7 from 1.080/1. So we are at about 7.2%. Skipped the actual chocolate addition and just did 1 oz of cacao nibs at 15 mins and 4 oz of Guatemalan crushed at 180f with a 20 minute "bean stand". Thinking about throwing an additional oz of nibs in some vodka and then adding it when I transfer to secondary. Any body added nibs to secondary, any feedback?

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I'd add them to secondary. Taste is good and dark cocoa.

Let us know how it taste with the boiled nibs. I've heard and read that its terrible to boil them. Acrid as hell and doesn't taste good.

FATC1TY said:

Let us know how it taste with the boiled nibs. I've heard and read that its terrible to boil them. Acrid as hell and doesn't taste good.

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I've had a different experience, Stone's bitter chocolate oatmeal stout adds them at 90min and it come out great... But it's a very balanced beer as well...

I didn't have any acrid notes at all, there is a light chocolate flavor, which I enjoyed, I'd like it to be a bit more pronounced so it's not lost during aging. I went with about 65 ibu and the coffee which I think balanced out the current level of sweetness and the chocolate. I'd like to get down around 1.022/3 and then transfer off the cake and into secondary for a mouth before bottling. I plan on dry nibbing and beaning last 7 days before bottling.

I did choose to wait until the wort cooled down to under 180 before adding coffee, i've always gotten the acrid notes you described with boiled coffee.

FATC1TY said:

I'd add them to secondary. Taste is good and dark cocoa.

Let us know how it taste with the boiled nibs. I've heard and read that its terrible to boil them. Acrid as hell and doesn't taste good.

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I threw my nibs in at 15 mins and there is no acrid taste at all from the initial unfermented wort sample, it was actually very good. I also added 2 oz of Sumatra at flameout, but the coffee flavor was very pronounced. I will taste it again in 4 weeks and then decide if I want to add any Kona at all to a secondary. I may add some nibs too.

Brewed an extract version of the recipe and put it on top of 1oz French oak chips(soaked in makers mark for 2 week) for 1 week. Bottled on 11-9-12. 7 months later and the oak is still overpowering. Any thoughts on how long this may take to cool off? The oak has subsided a bit, but its still rough. Next football season maybe? A full year in bottle? More? Thanks.

Can someone clarify the second coffee addition? Is this 2 liquid ounces in secondary, or some other measurement?

2 oz ground coffee that is cold brewed into one cup of room temperature water. Use a bag for the grounds and set it in the water for 24 hrs. Remove the grounds and add liquid to secondary.

Vigo_Carpathian said:

2 oz ground coffee that is cold brewed into one cup of room temperature water. Use a bag for the grounds and set it in the water for 24 hrs. Remove the grounds and add liquid to secondary.

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Awesome, thanks a bunch!

Or you can put the coarsely ground beans in a bag and toss in secondary. Sort of a dry hop, but with coffee beans.

mtnagel said:

Or you can put the coarsely ground beans in a bag and toss in secondary. Sort of a dry hop, but with coffee beans.

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Sounds like the easy way to do this. Is the flavor as good going dry grind?

Well it worked out excellent in this clone recipe, but I haven't tested it another way in this same recipe. I have tested it in other coffee beers and here are my experiences:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/peace-coffee-stout-porter-blend-413427/#post5231635
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/peace-coffee-stout-porter-blend-413427/#post5234799

I made this may 4th, fermented totally for a month, been in bottles since. I've cracked two and they are already fantastic. Can't wait to get some more age on them

DubbelDach said:

I easily have an inch and a half of chocolate on the bottom of my Better Bottle right now (9 days into 2 week 2ndary) Will hope that the s-04 compacts it slightly more in the next few days and will suspend my siphon right over the top of it with duct tape.

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in my expirence (which mind you is very limited) CHOCOLATE AND YEAST LOVE EACH OTHER. i made a drunken emu attempt not too long ago and the chocolate and the yeast were in the same places the whole fermentation. layer at the top and a layer at the bottom. once it settled it settled to the bottom. my filter looked like it had filtered sewage when i cleared my cider. upon settling it cleared some more but this chocolate sludge was the filrt thing that came out of the tap. then cider.

Sorry if this has been discussed, but the 15 minute addition of coffee, is that putting the grounds straight into the boil, or liquid from 2.5 oz ground coffee that has been cold brewed?

There is no 15 coffee addition. It's at flame out.

I'm sure you'll get differing opinions, but the BYO recipe says ground coffee in the ingredients and says to add it at the end of the boil so I did that exactly.

Right at flameout, I put a small amount of wort in a sterilized bowl with the chocolate to melt it, then returned it to the kettle. Then I let it cool to 190 and then put the coffee in a hop cloth in for 15 min, then cooled down with an immersion cooler.

Oh yeah, I forgot. That's how I added the coffee the second time I made this except I just add it loose. Figured it would settle out at the bottom of primary anyway. The secondary addition, I do put in a bag to keep it out of secondary.

thanks for the advice! I used some cocoa powder in a double chocolate stout with bad results...

ziggityz said:

thanks for the advice! I used some cocoa powder in a double chocolate stout with bad results...

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^^this. My chocolate stout was miserably bad. It was very cocoa bitter, where I think nibs may have had better results. However it was tolerable with the addition of some coffee.