Dangerous Dogs?

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Is it breed or owners that make dogs dangerous?

  • All pitbulls and Rottwielers are dangerous

  • Its the owners that make them dangerous

  • Ralph Nader fights Gerbals to the death!

Results are only viewable after voting.
Reverend JC

Reverend JC

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In light of the Mr. Vick dog fighting allegations going around i got to thinking:

are pitbulls and rottwielers inherently dangerous or is it the owners who make the dogs dangerous?

Something to consider:

No matter the calibur of the golden lab owner, those dogs never seem to attack anyone who did not provoke them. Lick them, yes, bite them i think that is rare.




your thoughts?
 
I think training has some to do with it. Most of the pitbulls and rottweilers I have had experience withwere pretty viscious but they were also roaming free with apparently no training or discipline possible no actual home (I was also a letter carrier I should add). They have been bred for generations to be viscious so, yes it has been ingrained in them.

i look at it like this, any dog has the potential for attack even ones with mild reputations. You do not always know what will provoke a dog. I beleive they have a better sense of other animals (including the fur-less two legged type) and can judge a person right away and might not like what they sense. :)off: I believe brian wilsons "good vibrations" by the beach boys was actually about this... :confused: )

I was bitten by a golden retriever once...

course, my dog was fighting with it! Doh! that was a lesson learnt.

edit, and I just saw the poll. I voted Nadar cause I think it isn't that black and white.
 
owners pure and simple. Problems with pit's and rot's are that they are just so strong so when they are not brought up right and attack it ends up badly.
 
While I agree Ryan i would like to site all of the news articles where an owner is defending the dog saying "he has never biten anyone in his life and has always been a loving dog", this as they are watching emergency room docs sew their childs face on.
 
I have a pitbull mix and she's the sweetest thing ever...She's also scared of EVERYTHING. Whenever we yell at one of the other dogs she hides and gets as close to the ground as she can get.

Out of our three dogs shes the most chill.

The people who used to live next to us had a GIANT pitbull named bear who was also really cool...almost never barked (just like lilly, our pitbull...she NEVER barks) and was always really nice to everyone.

I think it's people who treat/train them badly and the perseption that society has about them being killers and whatnot...

Seriously though the only dogs I've ever been bitten by are tiny little rats! My parents have a daushound who has bitten everyone in my family. And my friend has a chiuaua(SP?) who bit me once out of the blue....

I think it's bc they wish they were big dogs...
 
There are more recorded lab bites in the US then Pit Bull and Rotty combined.
With that said...
Obviously there are alot more labs in homes across the country.
Mine being one of them.
I own 2 labs actually, 1 pure, 1 mix.
These dogs wouldn't bite if they were being beaten (which is a bit saddening)..
My mother bred Rotts throughout the past 10-15 years (now helps run a Rotty rescue)..
My sister is a proud Pit owner.
None of those dogs have ever bitten or attacked.
Why?
Because of the way the dogs were raised and brought up.
I cant preach enough... TRAINING TRAINING TRAINING.

A dog is much like a child.. Their early lives will shape their character throughout the upcoming years of its life. If brought up right, those dogs can be angels and the thought of a bite or an attack is the last thing out there.
 
Reverend JC said:
While I agree Ryan i would like to site all of the news articles where an owner is defending the dog saying "he has never biten anyone in his life and has always been a loving dog", this as they are watching emergency room docs sew their childs face on.
Click to expand...

well what gets me going is, these people that leave their little kids alone with their dogs. I do understand what you are saying though. When it comes down to it, dogs are still animals. BTW I have a friend that runs a small pit rescue and its amazing how mean and aggressive the dogs are when he gets them(I stay the hell away from them). But after a while they will just jump in your lap and lick you all over.
 
you can never truly trust a dog with a child when they were abused as a pup...they can snap. that being said, pit bulls are absolute sweethearts. i've never met a pit i didn't adore, unless it was abused or mistreated. even the rescued ones are good dogs...they just need special care (like ANY rescued dog).

training is important and jealousy can become a factor. you need to acclimate your dog to other dogs and to people. a dog that spends its whole life with nothing but you will get jealous if you bring a woman and a child into your life. a dog who is brought up around lots of people and lots of other animals will not be agrressive towards them.

and yeah. dachsunds can be quite vicious ;)
 
While I agree with all the comments to an extent (I personally love pits and rotts), and training is a huge part, the reason for the breeds are for fighting/protection. That means they inherited a protective instinct. I had a German shephard mix years ago and it was the same discussion. True, a good owner can have ANY kind of dog and it'll be great. But if you have a lax owner and a dog with those inherited characteristics, it could be disaster. Of course, you can take a sheepdog and with a poor owner, it'll be a mean dog. But as a rule, domineering dog breeds need strong owners. I think small dogs tend to be the meanest, and I would stay clear of any little dogs. They seem to just "snap" at times.

I've had labs and they are wonderful- but they can also be protective. If anyone would have approached my kids when they were little, he would have protected them. Same with pits and rotts- they do have that in them. I now have a collie who is the most submissive dog you'll ever meet. Female collies are known for being like that- that's why "Lassie" has always been a male! The UPS guy just scared my collie- she ran in the house. Not great for a watchdog- but she is 15 years old and deserves a break!
 
Of course they're dangerous, some of it's the breed, some has to do with the owners. My father-in-law works in the medical field. He's got multiple stories about unprevoked dog attacks (mostly pit bull) on kids that were carrying food or tripped on a sleeping dog, etc., when the dogs had never before shown any kind of agression. Whether you'd like to admit it or not, sometimes these dogs just snap and instinct takes over.

We've got a Shih Tsu. She couldn't hurt a thing, even if she tried. Best dog we've ever had.

DSCN1097.JPG
 
One of our friends has a rottwieler/german shephard mix that she picked up from an animal shelter. Think "fat rottwieler that has the colors of a German shepherd" that's him. That dog has a very strong herding instinct, but is such a sweetheart. It never bites or snaps but he'll push you with his head if he thinks you're going into danger.

So I agree, it has to do with the way they are raised from pups more than the type of breed they are.
 
Don't co-mingle Rott's and Pit Bulls. I've had boxers and they look ferocious, but would never hurt a flea. Protective of their family and intimidating, but very submissive to humans in general.
 
I don't worry about Pits with people and I quite like Rotts usually. But I am always very wary when a Pit is around my dogs. I have two goofy lab/lab mixes and they have zero aggression. Pits do have a tendency for aggression towards other dogs that is bred into them. So I am very careful. Personally, I don't see the appeal of Pits when there are so many safer breeds available, but whatever...

Dog fighting is despicable and disgusting. I hate people who do any harm to animals, and I have a very soft spot for dogs. I can't imagine what I would do to someone who was making dogs fight. My dogs are family to me.

Take care of your pups, y'all! Cheers :D
 
I've got another example for you. Somehow I didn't think of it with my 1st reply.

My parents live in the country and raise horses. They've always had several dogs around. At one time they had a rottwieler. He seemed like a really good dog, always gentle around the kids, etc.

One day one of their horses gave birth and the dog freaked out and tried to kill the foal, and nearly did. My mom fended off the dog with a stick (or bat or something) for hours until someone got home to help her. She tried several times to leave the foal and go to the house to get a phone to call for help, but every time she tried, the dog would attack again.

Again, this dog wasn't raised to fight or attack anything. It was a family pet that was around kids and other dogs, cats, horses, etc. all the time. One day it snapped and instinct took over. Once it got the tast of blood, it was over.

You may think one of these dogs is harmless, but you never know. I'm not passing judgement and saying they're bad animals or you shouldn't have one as a pet. You just have to understand what kind of dog they are, where their instincts lie, and that they have the potential to be unexpectedly dangerous.
 
Pitbulls and other large dogs with massively developed jaw musculature are inherently dangerous. Any animal that can put down hundreds of pounds per square inch in a bite is inherently dangerous. Just as firearms are inherently dangerous. The design and characteristics of both a firearm and a pitbull make it dangerous.

However, handled appropriately, they are not a danger to the owner or others.


(which one, you ask? Both)
 
Lil' Sparky said:
I've got another example for you. Somehow I didn't think of it with my 1st reply.

My parents live in the country and raise horses. They've always had several dogs around. At one time they had a rottwieler. He seemed like a really good dog, always gentle around the kids, etc.

One day one of their horses gave birth and the dog freaked out and tried to kill the foal, and nearly did. My mom fended off the dog with a stick (or bat or something) for hours until someone got home to help her. She tried several times to leave the foal and go to the house to get a phone to call for help, but every time she tried, the dog would attack again.

Again, this dog wasn't raised to fight or attack anything. It was a family pet that was around kids and other dogs, cats, horses, etc. all the time. One day it snapped and instinct took over. Once it got the tast of blood, it was over.

You may think one of these dogs is harmless, but you never know. I'm not passing judgement and saying they're bad animals or you shouldn't have one as a pet. You just have to understand what kind of dog they are, where their instincts lie, and that they have the potential to be unexpectedly dangerous.
Click to expand...


There are certain things that can set a dog, ANY dog off... remember they're animals....

Rotts were family pets because of how good they naturally are around children.... a foal is another animal.... Breed plays a part but raising plays an equal if not bigger part...

Saying "understand what kind of dog they are" is utterly ridiculous, every dog is just that, a dog...

Now saying 'understand they are a dog and animal' is more like it... Any dog is prone to attack..
 
Yooper Chick said:
While I agree with all the comments to an extent (I personally love pits and rotts), and training is a huge part, the reason for the breeds are for fighting/protection. That means they inherited a protective instinct. I had a German shephard mix years ago and it was the same discussion. True, a good owner can have ANY kind of dog and it'll be great. But if you have a lax owner and a dog with those inherited characteristics, it could be disaster. Of course, you can take a sheepdog and with a poor owner, it'll be a mean dog. But as a rule, domineering dog breeds need strong owners. I think small dogs tend to be the meanest, and I would stay clear of any little dogs. They seem to just "snap" at times.

I've had labs and they are wonderful- but they can also be protective. If anyone would have approached my kids when they were little, he would have protected them. Same with pits and rotts- they do have that in them. I now have a collie who is the most submissive dog you'll ever meet. Female collies are known for being like that- that's why "Lassie" has always been a male! The UPS guy just scared my collie- she ran in the house. Not great for a watchdog- but she is 15 years old and deserves a break!
Click to expand...


exactly... there's really no reason to raise a dog to be mean at all... if you raise it right it will naturally be protective... the dog's job is to alert you and provide some protection... As long as the dog makes a sound or alerts me to something i feel the dog has done his job...

I have a Great Dane, he's small for a great dane (health issues) but he's still a huge dog. His size alone intimidates people, he's also that Brendel pattern that a lot of pits are, so people assume he's an oversized pit... However, this dog has been around kids, YOUNG kids, his whole life... He acts just like a child, the only person he has ever bit was me (and that was my fault)...
 
kornkob said:
Pitbulls and other large dogs with massively developed jaw musculature are inherently dangerous. Any animal that can put down hundreds of pounds per square inch in a bite is inherently dangerous. Just as firearms are inherently dangerous. The design and characteristics of both a firearm and a pitbull make it dangerous.

However, handled appropriately, they are not a danger to the owner or others.


(which one, you ask? Both)
Click to expand...

I really can't stand gun nuts... but you are absolutely right on both accounts.

Back when I used to fly airplanes, it was the same kind of thing. Part of the reason I liked it was because it was exciting, because it was a little dangerous. I don't think people should be banned from flying anymore than they should be banned from owning handguns or a large dog breed.

LOTS of things in life are dangerous, but it should be up to the individual to determine how much risk he wishes to take and how he wishes to cope with that risk (so long as he doesn't injure others in the process).

So yeah, I do believe that the dogs are inherently dangerous. You can't argue otherwise- they are strong and powerful animals. However, I don't think they are inherently vicious. That, to me, is the critical distinction between an acceptable pet and a menace to society.
 
Having worked at a vet for a number of years in my teens, I’ve had experiences with all kinds of dog and all kids of owners. From my experience, I honestly believe that a regular person, right off the street should not be allowed to own a dangerous breed. I say dangerous breed, and not just pits and rots – there are others that are just as bad. Pits just happen to be the worst.

The problem is that MOST people have no idea how to train a dog, and I’d go as far as to say that the percentage of poorly trained dogs is somewhere in the 90% + range. Now, a poorly trained basset hound isn’t much of a problem; you’re average child could fight one off easily. A dangerous breed can easily take down most people. That’s not something that should be taken lightly and is often is.

Now, you ask if it’s the breed or the owner. It’s both. Pits, for example, are VERY dog aggressive by nature and have a tendency to attack people too. Proper socialization and training can curb that behavior, but it’s not guaranteed to be 100% suppressed.
 
Ryanh1801 said:
Just look at this dangerous dog. :rolleyes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2OC5Z1Fii8
Click to expand...

The dog's not bothering the chicks and the chicks aren't bothering the dog. Nothing interesting there to speak of. I wonder what would happen if the chicks started pecking at the dog....?

I don't think anybody is claiming that pitbulls are going to inevitably kill anything that moves. Heck, even that Bear dude managed to live with bears for a long time before he got turned into a meal. People are just saying that the animals don't always "hold back" during a confrontation, as a good companion animal ought to do.

Personally, when I was a baby, I was bitten by our family's German Shepard. I was doing something I shouldn't have been doing. The dog snapped at me- scared the hell out of me... but he didn't try to maul my face off. Shepards are bred for that kind of trait. German Shepards are bred more on the scary-aggressive end of that spectrum, but they are still in that spectrum.

I don't have any experience to say how pitbulls respond when provoked, but that is really the issue here. Do they hold their ground? Or do they go for the jugular. That, to me, is the issue. Nobody is suggesting the dogs can't behave themselves most of the time.


Anyway, my friends have a pit/lab mix and I absolutely love that dog. It BIG... and it's SCARY-LOOKING... She used to have a leash that said, "My mommy is single". Hehe. I love playing with that dog though and we'll even wrestle a little... but there definitely comes a time when the dog gets a little "too into it" and it's time for a break. He's never been aggressive toward me (or anyone else) than I have allowed him to get. But then, I'm ok with my behavior and what I'm doing. I guess it boils down to what others have been saying. It comes down to training and the ability of the owner to train the dog properly- something that few owners have the time or inclination to do.
 
I just came across this thread and wanted to chime in. I own a pit mix that my wife and I got from the SPCA when he was about 3 months old. We took him everywhere with us. My Dad was a Houston police officer and his best friend was the K9 trainer, and he had always told us that the secret behind well behaved dogs and non dog aggresive dogs was good socialization. My dog is perfect around any other animal. He even lives with two cats and used to play with my friends ferret. My grandparents have two dachsunds and they are the worst behaved dogs ever, they attack my dog and he just ignores them. He could care less that they bark and snap at them because he knows not to mess with them. The problem is people treat dogs like they are people and they obviously aren' t. They have to be treated like dogs, and I think another reason why pits get this bad rap is the majority of the ones that you hear bit someone on the news are chained up in the backyard all their lives and get no attention or regular feeding and care. Plus they are owned by ghetto, ignorant people because they are "scary looking" they just want to look tough. If they were so viscous would they have had a pitbull on the little rascals. American Pitbull Terrier were even used for American Patriotism posters in WWII.
(End Speech)
 
When I lived in Orange County, CA, one of the couples in my square dancing club bred & raised pitbulls. They also had a couple as pets. After years of defending pitbulls with the "training" argument, their two-year old daughter was mauled by one of their pet pitbulls (which they raised from a pup). They slaughtered their stock and switched to golden retrievers.

One thing I've noticed around here, pitbull pups are extremely common, but you don't see many adults over 3-4 years old.
 
Its the owners fault. The only reason that Rotties or Pits supposedly bite more people is because jerks who want to train a dog to be viscious are more likely to want to own a Rottie or a Pit. My inlaws have had 2 rotties since I been knowing them and neither one of them is anything but gentle and lazy, I know some Pits as well. The only two times I ever knew of personally where someone got bit by a dog it was a birddog and a cocker spaniel that did the biting. Well that and my folks Lhasa bit me a couple times when I was trying to groom it, but that doesn't count.

A person could get a poodle and raise it to be mean and viscious, just like they can raise a pit to be mean and viscous. And people that treat pits like pets instead of like weapons can expect a calm good natured safe pet.

Its not the dogs fault that scumbags raise them to be mean.
 
It’s more than just the owner. All major breeds were designed with a specific purpose and have inherent traits. Just like a Border Collie will naturally heard, a Pit-bull is naturally aggressive – ESPECIALLY to other dogs. The behavior can be curbed, but it’s always there and can come out at any time. If you have a mixed breed (I know all pits are officially a mix since it isn’t a recognized breed), you may not have a dog that has the natural aggressiveness of a pit bull, but then again, you might.

Some of the other things that are particularly dangerous about pits is that they do not warn before attack. They are also the ONLY breed that as puppies, will harm, and even kill each other during play. Additionally, pits that come from a fighting line have been cross breed with other animals that were particularly aggressive. This means that undesirable traits that are bread out of most breeds are breed INTO this one.

The facts are there – just look them up. No, pits are not complete monsters and in the right hands, can be well behaved. If you’re cool with taking that chance with your kids, that’s fine. Personally, I’d never keep a potentially dangerous breed in my house.
 
I think it is a bit of both nature and nurture. However, I dont think that a pit bull is more vicious than any other breed. Labs, Chihuahas, Poodles, Schnauzers etc etc. All breeds of dogs can attack with out apparent provocation. The problem is breeds like Pits and Rotts have the capacity to inflict massive amounts of damage, they are just down right powerful animals. So when they do trip their triggers its bad and usually news worthy. I wont own either of those breeds for that very reason.
 
Probably 95% of the people who have pits, rotties are the exact people who shouldn't have them. Same goes twenty years ago when it was German Shepards and Dobermans.
 
rdwj said:
Some of the other things that are particularly dangerous about pits is that they do not warn before attack. They are also the ONLY breed that as puppies, will harm, and even kill each other during play. Additionally, pits that come from a fighting line have been cross breed with other animals that were particularly aggressive. This means that undesirable traits that are bread out of most breeds are breed INTO this one.

The facts are there – just look them up. No, pits are not complete monsters and in the right hands, can be well behaved. If you’re cool with taking that chance with your kids, that’s fine. Personally, I’d never keep a potentially dangerous breed in my house.
Click to expand...
Killer Puppies!? Sorry, never heard of that before. 10 years ago it was Dobermans that were the killer breed. Most of the time when I watch the news, and here about a so called pitbull attack when they show the dog it clearly is not even a pitbull. That breed of dog has been used over its lifespan to do every job available. Not just fight. They were originally used for protecting butchers from bulls when they were slaughtering them. Then it became a sport. That is where the name name bulldog came from, Bullbaiting.
I' m done talking about it. I'm not here to change the world.:p
 
The media just hypes up stories to get the public scared. For all the pit bulls in America the amount of deaths you hear reported are minimal, it's just the media goes on a frenzy about it.

Pit bulls were bred to be aggressive towards dogs but they also worked to bred the aggression towards humans out so they could handle them easy.

I agree with Virtuous. My Min Pin is more vicious than my Pit Bull. Dogs are animals and you can't predict what they are going to do. I own a pit bull and know lots that do without issues.
 
The pitbull that Killed the little girl used to get punched in the head by it's owner.

He is the one who got his daughter killed. It was his fault not the dogs.
I'd happily rip his nuts off and stuff them down his throat!!!!!
 
orfy said:
The pitbull that Killed the little girl used to get punched in the head by it's owner.

He is the one who got his daughter killed. It was his fault not the dogs.
I'd happily rip his nuts off and stuff them down his throat!!!!!
Click to expand...
Right On!:rockin:
 
A person could get a poodle and raise it to be mean and viscious said:
I've yet to meet a poodle that I didn't find mean and viscious
Click to expand...
 
Hell Brew said:
Killer Puppies!? Sorry, never heard of that before. 10 years ago it was Dobermans that were the killer breed. Most of the time when I watch the news, and here about a so called pitbull attack when they show the dog it clearly is not even a pitbull. That breed of dog has been used over its lifespan to do every job available. Not just fight. They were originally used for protecting butchers from bulls when they were slaughtering them. Then it became a sport. That is where the name name bulldog came from, Bullbaiting.
I' m done talking about it. I'm not here to change the world.:p
Click to expand...

Done or not - I'll add more. Bulldogs were VERY aggressive dogs before the trait was removed from the breed. That was done by selective breeding. Quite the opposite is happening with today's pits.

Here is about the fairest article you're ever going to read on the subject. It's from the ASPCA and details the breed and the current problems it faces.
 
TxBrew said:
For all the pit bulls in America the amount of deaths you hear reported are minimal.
Click to expand...


There are probably more goldens or labs in the world than pitbulls, why is it the media dosent hype it when they kill children........yeah, thats because they dont no matter how many times their master punches them in the head or what ever excuse was used earlier to justify the fact it wasnt the pitbulls fault for killing.

Well, i suppose if it is how they are trianed and used then perhaps the only way to keep them from eating the families youngest child then we need to issue special licenses for people that feel the need to own them, i mean we do that with guns right? It is not the gun that kills people it is the people, right?

same logic.
 
rdwj said:
Done or not - I'll add more. Bulldogs were VERY aggressive dogs before the trait was removed from the breed. That was done by selective breeding. Quite the opposite is happening with today's pits.

Here is about the fairest article you're ever going to read on the subject. It's from the ASPCA and details the breed and the current problems it faces.
Click to expand...
Still nothing about killer puppies. It just said they play rougher.:mug:
 
i am a cat person personally... they are the greatest pet

i learned all about it when ontario began restricting pitbulls and from what i learned i know that the people who get pitbulls tend to choose that breed for a particular reason (you see them walking them around with chain leashes...), but i also believe that they are in inherently dangerous for physical and temperment reasons. i find some little dogs tend to have the extremely aggressive tendencies and can be vicious but obviously theres no serious incidents caused by ****zus (i was bitten in the thumb by one once and it bled) just because they arent that big. im just.. not a dog person overall, but yeah, they should ban pitbulls and any other future breeds created to be large, powerful and vicious.
 
Zombie post. But nice sentiment. Ban a breed based on foolish owners. Makes sense really. <------ sarcasm...
 

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