Infection help needed..

I am having infection issues and I can not figure out where things are going wrong. I all grain brew and prior to now have not had any issues, I have been brewing for a few years. I use a 1/2 barrel keg and Home Depot round coolers for brewing. My chiller is placed in the keg for the last 15 minutes of the boil. Once off the burner the only things that touch the wort are a thermometer and a large spoon for airation which are both kept in sanitizer prior to use. I brew in the garage and I place the keg outside the garage door while the chiller does it's thing. The wort is always covered with a metal screen to avoid any insects etc. From there the wort is drained into primary buckets and into the basement it goes with a tube hooked to a 3 piece airlock ran into a 2 quart jar which has not gone dry.

I brewed a blonde and an Irish Red on the same weekend, both turned out very sour. The blonde was very cloudy in apperance. Both were let to sit for a while but were finally dumped, the taste was very bad. My next brew was a Southern English Brown. It had a slight sour taste, but just faint. This beer is currently kegged and is borderline drinkable, basically has a tart taste to it that the style should not have. These 3 were brewed within a week of each other, nothing was changed as once I realized I had a problem they were all waiting for the keg. Last I brewed a Kolsch knowing I had an issue prior. I bought new primary buckets and high-temp hose thinking my problem may be either from transfer to primary or primary itself. The kolsch is bad. After 3 weeks in primary and a gravity of 1.010 it has a slimey krausen on it, smells like bread, appears very cloudy and has a sour taste.

Ideas? Am I correct in assuming the problem lies starting with the second it comes off the burner? I really was hoping the problem lied in the primary or hose and now I'm stumped... As far as yeast I used a washed yeast starter, dry yeast and a smack pack so I can not really blame it on yeast handling either. I do not open my primaries for any reason up until right around the 3 week mark when I am ready to keg or transfer so I do not suspect anything getting in that way. Where should I look next?? Thanks in advance.

I think the chiller and anything prior to that is unlikely as it is in the boil. Think of either anything that touches the wort post cooldown, like maybe a spoon etc, or the location its in the open air prior to transfer to the fermenter. Try and really clean/sanitize anything that touches the wort. Try chilling the wort somewhere else. Maybe even the screen you mentioned has something on it.

kevjt said:

I brew in the garage and I place the keg outside the garage door while the chiller does it's thing. The wort is always covered with a metal screen to avoid any insects etc.

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I agree with the previous poster... sounds like it's possibly something related to placing the keg outdoors to chill.

Is the screen you are using also keeping dust and other airborne particles out of the wort while it chills outside?

Thanks guys. I will find something to cover the pot with while it's cooling. My problems started once the weather warmed up here in WI so that may be an issue. The screen is good for flies but I suppose not much more.
Another thing is that I normally just spray out my pick up tube with water and splash some sanitizer in/on the valve. Something tells me I should be doing a better job there too.

Do you use a plate chiller? I know those are notorious infection sources

No, I use a homemade copper tubing chiller.

Counterflow or immersion?

Immersion.

I doubt the cooler, immersion is pretty hard to infect with if it's put in about the last 2-5 of the boil. I'd first think of the firmenters actually since you mention using buckets. That's where I had problems about a year or so ago. Tiny scratches can harbor a lot of bugs but be near impossible to sanitize properly.

The last one I brewed (kolsch) was fermented in a brand new primary bucket and it is bad.

I haven't had an infection since switching to glass only fermenters and using starsan on everything post boil.

The plastic fermenters get etched and/or scratched over time. It makes them easier to hold onto something that bacteria can grow in. My local homebrew shop suggests storing plastic ale pales with a mild chlorine solution. I just use glass carboys now (smooth surfaces = no hiding spots for germs) and stainless kegs.

Also, pitching enough yeast with some aeration is another good practice (fast start), as is controlling the temperature of the ferment(60-65F for most ale yeast). To me, certain yeasts and/or ferments done at a higher temperature are similar in flavor to infections, which could make sense if the infection is a wild yeast.

kevjt said:

The last one I brewed (kolsch) was fermented in a brand new primary bucket and it is bad.

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Missed that part Well then I'd put my vote in with the cover while cooling, maybee just keeping it inside to keep it out of the wind could help too. I'm set up in the basement and everything cools open top with no problems (aside from the guilty buckets) so far.

Here's where I'd be focussing in on;
1. The screen. (try replacing it with foil to keep the wildies out)
2. The Keg. (disassemble and clean/sanitize it FULLY everytime it's emptied. Poppets, seals, hosing, taps, everything!)
3. Fermentation temperature. (the best investment I've made to my brewing in terms of solid results is a Ranco 2-stage temp controller, heating belts and a fridge)

Hope you get to the bottom of it. There's nothing more frustrating than having to feed the drain with 5 gallons and a full days work.

I would try sanitizing your immersion chiller (especially near the top). If you think about it... if you do a batch that is 5.5 gallons, and your next batch is 5.4 gallons.... there is that .1 that was touched by the wert from the first batch that may not have been sanitized by the 15 minutes in the boil on the second batch. My chiller is a little "springy", so it would be possible to put that spot on the top of the chiller into my wert. Just an idea to eliminate a possible cause.

Just so you don't feel alone I am battling a very similar situation right now as well. After 3 bad batches, all three were sour, two were cloudy, and just never cleared up.

I have now replaced my primary buckets, replaced my hose, and I ditched all my washed yeast and started fresh. I have three batches in primary right now, and I am desperately hoping I have it figured out. I really think it was my yeast being too many generations old and I noted my fermentation temps had crept up a lot higher than I thought in my basement. I now have to wait 2 or 3 weeks to see if I figured it out.

But I feel your pain. After 50+ batches of decent beer (a few really good, and few not so good, and most fair) I feel like I can't brew a batch of decent beer. I had to buy beer last week .

Alan

Hope you figure it out. Let us know if you do!

Alan

Thanks to everyone. I am planning a brew in the next couple of days. I will do a very thorough clean to the keg, pick up tube, valve and chiller. I'll cover with tin foil during the chill as well as run hoses to and from the garage instead of carrying it outside. I plan on using a bucket, however it will be a brand new one as my 6 gallon carboy is tied up right now. For fermentation this brew is getting dry yeast and will be in my temp controlled fridge. As far as the screen goes I think I will still use it during the boil, then switch to foil for the chill. My understanding is it is not advised to boil covered. I have used 1 step to this point, but I might make the trek to the supply store and grab some starsan while I'm there, I have been meaning to try it anyway.
I had to buy beer too. Not good. On the bright side I am brewing an ESB which accoding to the thread is a fast turn around brew. Hopefully I will only post back one more time in a couple of weeks with good news.

huge1s I think that the a copper chiller reaches the same temperature as the boiling wort in a couple of minutes. I'm sure it's sanitized by the temperature almost to the outlets.

try to get rid of your blow off tube and just use a bubbler for this batch. use cheap vodka for the bubbler liquid, summertime and the use or refrigeration for fermentation can lead to the blow off vessel liquid to be sucked into the fermenter. I don't know if that is your problem but it will eliminate another source where it may be coming from.

the boiler if it has a valve in it, should be taken apart and cleaned also.

I agree with oldbrew. Since we started brewing, we have always used vodka, tequila, etc for filling the bubbler. The one time I didn't have any left to use was the time I ended up with a gusher infection. Much better to have a little liquor sucked back into the fermenter than stagnant water.

In regards to using plastic, I've never really had any problems with scratches on my primaries. Have you considered upping your pitch rate?