Two Brother's Domaine DuPage recipe

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I am pretty sure I have that issue. I work late tonight and won't be off until after 8PM Pacific. Do me a favor and send me a PM and I'll try to get it for you tonight or tomorrow. If you don't remind me, I will forget.
 
This is definitely their flagship... I'd love to take a crack at it too. :) Since they got the foudres in, they are oak-"aging" some of it as well. I had it on tap at the Bavarian Lodge and it was fantastic... even more complex if you can imagine.
 
Why don't you just go and buy the stuff from the brewers coop? I'm pretty sure they sell clones, if you are lucky enough to find them at a time when they actually HAVE ingredients in stock.
 
As promised

Domaine DuPage French Country Ale (All-Grain) From BYO.
(BYO recipes based on 65% efficiency)

5 gallon recipe
OG 1.068 FG 1.019
IBU-21 SRM-14 ABV 6.4%

7.25# pale ale malt
4# Vienna Malt
2# Munich Malt
.75# Wyerman Carawheat(R) Malt
.25# Wyerman CaraMunich (R) Malt
.25# melanoidin malt

1.75 AAU (.19 oz of 9.9% AA) Northern Brewer Hops @ 60 minutes
3.3 AAU (.66oz of 5% AA) Mt Hood Hops @ 25 minutes
4.4 AAU (.88oz of 5% AA) Mt Hood Hops @ 10 min

White Labs WLP 550 Belgian Ale Yeast

Add 1tsp of gypsum and enough acid to lower mash pH water to 6.5 prior to mash in. Mash at 155 degrees for 15 minutes then raise temp to 168 degrees for mash out (10 min). Sparge with 164 degree water.

Collect 6.5G of wort. Boil for 120 minutes. Add Hops according to schedule after first hour of boil.

Ferment at 66 degrees.

Good Luck on this beer.
 
Considering I live about a mile from the brewery this is one recipe I have been thinking about too. The Brewers Coop is definitely an afterthought for them these days.
 
Cool, Ive been wanting to brew this but didnt want to bug them anymore. I have recipes for the Bitter End and Cane & Ebel if anyone wants them. PM me, I dont check in often.
 
I love Domaine. Does anyone else notice a sort of earthy, musty note to the nose? I have through a few tastings now and I wonder if the yeast is giving that off? Thoughts?
Would wlp500 be a good sub?
Cheers,
Bob
 
I brewed a Domain DuPage clone based on both of the BYO clone recipes. I used the grain bill from the recipe above and a recommended yeast from the Sept 2010 BYO recipe. I just wanted to share some experiences.

My LHBS does not carry White Labs yeast, so I tried Wyeast 3711 (one of the alternatives in the Sept 2010 recipe). I fermented at an ambient of 62F and reached a whopping 88% attenuation - which I guess is not uncommon for 3711. However I will say that I think 3711 is probably an inappropriate yeast for this specific beer. I tasted at 3 weeks fermentation. It has all the typical phenolics and sourness of a German Hefe. Domain DuPage is much more malt focused. It has an earthyness, but definitely not spicy or very estery. Next, I think the yeast's attenuation is way too high. I mashed at 155 like the recipe called for and hit my mash temps closely. So I measured the FG of a real DDP today. It was 1.021 which makes sense given the body and residual sweetness. So if I plug that number and 5.9% ABV into an attenuation calculator, it look like one should be targeting an OG of 1.066 and a yeast with 67% attenuation.

I've never used WLP 550, but by the description I think it would be similar to Wy3711.

I think next time I brew this I will use a cleaner ale yeast or a lager yeast.

Anyone have any yeast suggestions for this beer?
 
I just brewed this up today but subbed the hops with organic pilgrim and sapphire also used s33 yeast for the first time.Also didnt have melonoiden so i subbed crystal 60.
Ive seen contradictary info about its attenuation.ive seen excellent attenuation ,and low attenuation.Guess i will find out.
 
Let us know how the attenuation turns out. Also include your mashing and ferm condition details. It's probable that the wide variation you're seeing people talk about is due to wort and ferm condition variation. I'd also be interested to hear whether that yeast produces many phenolics. I've seen accounts that claim it can make noticeable phenolics and others that don't mention that at all.
 
Howdy,

I posted to this thread back in 2009 and I finally got around to brewing this.
I sent an email to the brewery asking about the BYO article and recipe, and my concerns over the wlp550 kicking out penolic flavors that I didn't notice in the commercial example. They responded quickly and stated the recipe is the same as they use and that was that.
I brewed the recipe as written, scaled up to a 12 gallon batch to be separated into three carboys of four gallons, each getting a different yeast. The yeasts were WLP550, WLP072 French Ale and WY3725 Bier De Garde. Single vial/pouch pitched direct. Fermented at 66* Doing this allows me to taste what each strain brings to the table. I also used a 15 minute mash that I've heard Two Brothers uses on their beers.
This was brewed on May 28. I'm not doing a secondary and will move this right to bottles (bottling stinks!) and cellared until fall.
Here are the tasting notes from when I took a gravity sample/taste..

As of 6/12/11....
WLP072- 8.4B/1.013 Smell- earthy, yeasty , savory, hint diacytal Taste- vineous, yeasy, mild spice and a bit hot.
WLP550- 10.2/1.024 Smell - Very spicy,typical Belgian strain smell, pink buble gum, yeasty. Taste - typical Belgian spicy flavor, mild Phenolic, more body and a hint of sweetness.
WY3725- 7.3/1.005 Smell - Earthy, Woody, yeasty , tart. Taste - Tart dryness, earthy, bit of spice, hot alcohol on tongue.

You can see the 3725 worked the hardest and finished the lowest. It was also the freshest of the three. The 550 has now slowed down and I'll take another reading soon.
When I bottle, I want to take a portion from all three and blend them together for a fouth different beer.

Sorry for the long winded post. I'll post more soon.

Cheers,
Bob
 
Thanks for all the great info. What OG did you hit on that batch? I read in the Yeast book that phenolic flavors don't tend to mellow. I might taste some mild spiciness in the real DDP, but not much at all. I can't imagine how they avoid it at Two Brothers if they're using WLP 550. I think the fermentation conditions that favor it are warmth and I fermented at a somewhat low temp.

All I can say is that it's a good thing my wife likes beer with spicy phenolics. I wouldn't enjoy drinking 5 gallons of this on my own - it actually turned out to be a good beer (no major flaws per-se), but it's just not my style. I would like to brew this again once I figure out what yeast is reasonable. I've also read that this style beer is probably difficult to reproduce in a home setting because it is usually cask conditioned and lagered. Not sure if Two Brothers is doing that.
 
Well its an ale,not a lager.They do use oak but usually emphasize it,I love the resistance.I wouldnt even hesistate to oak this frenchy if wanted.I havent had this beer in some time so im not shure what it tastes like now but i know i liked it enough after smuggeling one in a sixer of resistance once, i then bought a six of it,been a while but was a good somewhat differnet than the basic styles.
I have been getting pretty clean beers using a low temp with a variety of dry yeast.04 and munich wheat didnt get me much really. Im not expecting alot from 33 as ive not heard the greatest things about it, sounds like t58 or whatever the other dry one is is a better one, who knows without trying first i guess
 
My OG was 1.067.
I don't get a whole lot of spice in the real deal. That's why I questioned using the 550. I also detect a musty, cellar, earthy note in both the taste and smell of Domaine. I hope that comes through in mine.


Cheers,
B
 
That sounds about right for an OG. Seems like you might get the right taste out of your WLP072 or Wy3725 batches. But the FG's might make them drier and lighter body. BTW, what are those numbers you list before the gravities?

Maybe they originally started with WLP550 and it mutated? I did notice a fair bit of sediment in the bottle, so perhaps I'll attempt a harvesting.
 
I also live very close to the brewery and this is one of my favorite beers. A while back I brewed the BYO clone, and while the grain bill is close, the Belgian yeast is completely incorrect. You definitely need to use a Bier de Garde yeast for this beer. A fellow member (Joe Dragon) and I worked on a better clone, and his recipe is very close, if not better than the original. Hope he doesn't mind me posting his 10gal recipe here (which I scaled down to 5gal) but it's damn good. This beer needs aging (I think around 6 months it was at its best.)

Domaine DuKane
Biere de Garde


Type: All Grain
Date: 7/16/2010
Batch Size: 10.00 gal
Brewer: Joe Dragon
Boil Size: 12.13 gal Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Brew Pot (12.5 gal) and Igloo Cooler (10 Gal)
Taste Rating(out of 50): 35.0 Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00
Taste Notes:

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
14.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 53.70 %
6.00 lb Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 22.22 %
4.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 14.81 %
1.50 lb Wheat, Flaked (1.6 SRM) Grain 5.56 %
0.50 lb Caramunich Malt (48.0 SRM) Grain 1.85 %
0.50 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 1.85 %
1.00 oz Northern Brewer [8.90 %] (60 min) Hops 14.1 IBU
1.00 oz Mt. Hood [6.00 %] (17 min) Hops 5.2 IBU
1.00 oz Mt. Hood [6.00 %] (5 min) Hops 1.9 IBU
0.50 oz Polyclar (Secondary 1.0 days) Misc
1.00 tsp Gelatin (Secondary 5.0 hours) Misc
2.00 tbsp PH 5.2 Stabilizer (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
20.00 gm Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs White Labs (White Labs #072) [Starter 50 ml] Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.068 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.065 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.016 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 6.81 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 7.84 %
Bitterness: 21.2 IBU Calories: 287 cal/pint
Est Color: 8.3 SRM Color: Color


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out Total Grain Weight: 27.00 lb
Sparge Water: 8.17 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Single Infusion, Medium Body, No Mash Out Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Mash In Add 7.45 gal of water at 171.1 F 154.0 F



Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).
Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Kegged (Forced CO2) Volumes of CO2: 2.4
Pressure/Weight: 21.6 PSI Carbonation Used: -
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 60.0 F Age for: 28.0 days
Storage Temperature: 52.0 F

Notes


Created with BeerSmith

Quick Edit - I ended up using Wyeast-3725 instead of the White Labs French Ale in my version.. turned out great.
 
@Hex Those are Brix. I take my gravvities witha refractometer andconvert them to SG in Promash.

Oh duh! I was just not thinking about the possibility of measuring FG with a refractometer. Do you normally plan to measure FG with a hydrometer? If you normally do that I'd be curious to see those numbers too.
 
overflow - thanks for the extra data point. Looks like WL072 and Wy3725 are both good candidates. Sounds like the 15 minute mash may not be necessary either ...
 
ok. Im posting a follow up as i thougt i lost this thread.I ended up with a crusty thin white layer on top, think it was a locto infection, due to topping off(which i dont ever do normally)or nats or a fruitfly or who-knows.Despite this disappointment i made 2 other beers with this same yeast s-33 without this infection.I still racked and bottled this, and i have to say it tasted amazing it finished at 1.018 which i never had a gravity this high, but i mashed high also. I drank one@ 6 days bottled and i have to say it reminded me of Ovila Saison i just had tried tonight,except mine didnt have the spice and mine was med-full bodied-like domain its suppose to be(i think). Anyways im going to keep my eye out for overcarbantion from the infection then just fridge them, they are way too good too just dump out.
I also fermented about 67 for 4 weeks.I dont know how long ill be able to conditon it but at 67 degrees over a week it is clearing fast.With more than average sedimentation in the bottle. Im not seing the film on top so i think they would be ok for awhile, i would just hate to have to drink them so fast and i need to get another fridge now.
Anybody know if them clearing like this is bad,due to what the recipe and final gravity is- im kinda concerned now after looking at those pics.And trying to remeber what the actuall beer looks like, from what i remember it was not clear.
My first infection and getting a bit noidy, but i do have them in a cooler in my basement at 67 deg.I just feel a bit cheated out of being able to condition these further as i have only had them bottled a few weeks.

Tasting notes for hops subbed with pilgrim and sapphire: Pilgrim was probably not the right sub, had a citrusy bite to it is still good and with the s-33 yeast probably a completly differnt beer, i have to go out to get some Domaine to compare it more.Ill post back in this thread.For now im not going to sub anything if i want something close to the origional.
 
I just toured the brewery over the wekend and they e-mailed me some recipes including this one (below). The only weird thing is that they didn't specify a yeast strain.

Grain Bill

52% Vienna Malt
38% Munich Malt
5% Caramel Wheat
2.5% CaraMunich Malt
2.5% Melanoidin Malt

Hops
1. Northern Brewer – 7 IBU’s
2. Mt Hood – 9.5 IBU’s
3. Mt Hood – 6 IBU’s

Mash: 152F
Boil: 120 minutes

Add first hops with 60 minutes left
Add second hops with 25 minutes left
Add third hops with 10 minutes left

Starting gravity 1.069
Finishing gravity 1.018
 
The recipe you got via email looks almost exactly the same as the 2010 BYO one, so it's probably a good bet their yeast recommendation is also correct unless it's a house strain or something. White Labs WLP072 (French Ale) or Wyeast 3711 (Belgian Saison).

Only thing different on BYO is the SG/FG. Wonder what's up with that? Mashing at 152 I'm not sure how an FG that high is possible given the ingredients of the recipe. Also, last time I used 3711 in a saison it finished at 1.004. Maybe if WLP072 doesn't attenuate as fully that would make it a better choice. I already bought 3711 though. Plan to brew this sometime in the next month. It's either 2nd or 3rd in my queue atm...haven't decided :)
 
I know this thread hasn't been visited in a while, but felt compelled to post. I brewed the BYO recipe about 6 weeks ago. The LHBS did not have the yeast mentioned, and were low on inventory. Determined to brew that day, I used Wyeast Belgian Strong Ale. At first the nose was a little too funky, but now everyone raves about the beer overall. They insist that I shouldn't even try the saison yeast next time, and just stick with the Strong Ale. Cheers.
 
I know this thread hasn't been visited in a while, but felt compelled to post. I brewed the BYO recipe about 6 weeks ago. The LHBS did not have the yeast mentioned, and were low on inventory. Determined to brew that day, I used Wyeast Belgian Strong Ale. At first the nose was a little too funky, but now everyone raves about the beer overall. They insist that I shouldn't even try the saison yeast next time, and just stick with the Strong Ale. Cheers.

Thanks for the info. What was your fermentation temperature profile?
 
Thanks for the info. What was your fermentation temperature profile?

Well, I pitched at around 72. There was active fermentation within 12 hours. It got up to 82 for about a day and a half, then slowly got down to 70 for the remainder of the time. I had this wrapped in a blanket and sitting over a heating duct on the floor (we keep the thermostat between 60-67 in the winter). I left it in the primary for 2.5 weeks then went straight to bottles. I wish I had put it in the secondary for at least a few weeks though, there is a lot of sediment in the bottles, although no body else has complained about that once they drink it.

I recently learned that this yeast along with all other 1300 series of Wyeast are true top flocculating yeast. I kept waiting for it to settle out, but it doesn't. I have experience and read about this with others trying to brew the Cane & Ebel saying the same thing with Northwest Ale Yeast. You just have to rack through it.
 
I finally got around to brewing this last weekend. I used the Wyeast 3711 with a starter. Should be bottling a couple weeks from now. Everything seemed to go smoothly on brew day so I have high hopes for this one. I'll keep you posted.
 
I am drinking a DD right now and seriously considering a clone brew. Actually, every 4-6 months I pick up some DD and consider a clone brew. Time to do it. I think I will try the French Ale yeast as I am all "belgianed-out" right about now...
 
I tasted one of mine earlier this past week at the 2 week mark and it seems to be coming along pretty well. I really wish I could get my hands on the real thing to do a side by side taste test next week but I'm not sure it'll be possible out here in MD/DC. If anyone knows of a place out this direction I can find this stuff let me know.
 
Well, this I just brewed this for the second time. I still haven't been able to use the recommended yeast. The first time around the LBHS was out of it, so I used WYeast 1388 (belgian Strong Ale). This last time I wanted to make something to build up a yeast cake for an 11% tripel. I used Wyeast 1214 (belgian ale). Both taste fantastic. The 1388 gives it a little more of a fruity nose and slight tart taste, while the 1214 gives it a little bit of dry spiciness. This grain bill is a good one, and can handle many different yeasts. Domaine DuPage is a great beer for a hot summer day. Cheers.
 
Thinking of brewing this tomorrow and the 15 minute mash seems like an odd callout; what's the verdict on this among those of you who have tried it? Not sure I have the nerve to cut off the mash that quickly... seems like something that might make sense for Two Brothers to do at their scale, but may not work at the 5g homebrew scale?
 
I think the only thing a 15 minute mash did for me was cause crappy efficiency (something like 50%). But that's before I had my own grain mill and I was dealing with my LHBS poor crush. I would be inclined to try it again at with a proper crush, but I'm not sure what it does for the taste. DD has a nice sweet taste to me and I don't know if that's just because of all the caramel malts used or if it also takes something special in the mash process that leads to sweet unfermentables.
 
That's it...I just checked my inventory and I have almost everything I need to make this. I just need yeast, melanoidin, and carawheat. I will be brewing this on Monday since the weather is right for saisons...
 
Brewing this up today...I've never had DD but I saw a youtube vid and got me interested...after everything I've read about this beer not one person has a bad thing to say...we shall see how this goes!
 
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