e-Brewery Control Panel Project/Conversion from Propane to Electric

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HELP!!!

P-J,
I've been using your diagram - I think it's the 5500W + RIMS. However, I'm using 4500W elements. My breakers are 50A. My spa sub-panel is 50A and was installed by a certified electrician. The wiring between the main panel and subpanel is 6/3 with ground. I'm assuming it was installed correctly. I did watch as it was installed and it does look correct. Ground to ground, neutral to neutral, and black and red to the breaker. All of that directly to the spa panel about 11 feet away. The GFCI wire is running from the breaker to the neutral bus bar. The ground runs to the ground bus bar. The black leg runs to one pole of the GFCI breaker and the red leg runs to the other pole if the GFCI breaker. When energized all appears to be fine. Each leg when checked to ground shows 119.5 volts. Both legs checked show 239 volts.

I've connected 6/4 SOOW from the spa panel to my distribution blocks in my CP.

Here's the issue - whenever I close any switch - PID power, contactor, or pump - the GFCI trips. This only happens when the 240V is hot.

When building my panel I connected up 120v to the single pole breaker so I could check all of the switches and PIDs. I did not have a problem with the breaker tripping and I was plugged into a 120v GFCI circuit. It all worked as it should and this remains the case when I have 120v connected to the CP.

I have checked the new 240v wiring and it all appears to be correct. I have removed the 2nd leg of the 240v from the CP (leaving only 1 phase hot) and the GFCI still trips. I know when the GFCI trips it means I have a leak between either leg of the 240v and the neutral, but I cannot find the issue. I've checked the CP. With the 240v disconnected from the distribution blocks (L1, L2, N, and G) I do not find bonding between Neutral and Ground. With the N and G connected I do find bonding between them and my understanding is that this is correct. I guess the leak is between L1 and Neutral, but I can't find it.

One interesting note - I set connected one of the 240v indicator lights. From each hot leg to each side of the light (these lights are from Auber) and the light lights up no problem. I am reviewing the wiring of the distribution blocks... but otherwise... do you have any advise to offer before I start tearing out all of my wiring?

Thanks!
Paul

PS - pictures coming.
 
Ok, here are the pics from the main panel to the spa panel to the control panel.

L1 & L2 in 50a Breaker in main panel. The 30A breaker above is off. Was for an electric dryer and is unused.
photo-14.jpg


NEU bonding.
photo-1-8.jpg


GND bonding.
photo-2-4.jpg


Up to the spa panel. Power is entering from the back. 6/4 SOOW is coming into the panel from the bottom and goes to the Control Panel.
photo-3-2.jpg


L1 & L2 distribution blocks along with breakers. Those are 120v/15a, then 3 240v/25a left to right.
photo-4-1.jpg


NEU & GND distribution blocks. The black wires are running under the neutral terminal blocks. They are from the contactor coils.
photo-5-1.jpg


120v terminal blocks. The 3 fuse blocks are for the E-Stop (ES), PID Power (PID), and Contactor pushbutton switches (PB).
photo-6-1.jpg


Receptacles - 120v/15a and 240v/30a. Only showing a couple of these are are 2 other 240v/30a receptacles.
photo-7-1.jpg


Breakers up close. L1 distributes to connector 1 on the breakers. L2 distributes to connector 2 on the breakers.
photo-9-1.jpg


SSRs up close.
photo-10-1.jpg


Contactors up close. Coil wires are black for hot and white for neutral.
photo-11-1.jpg


Backplane of CP. Here's an overview of the overall layout.
photo-12-1.jpg


Front of CP.
photo-14-1.jpg


Back of controls. The E-stop is NOT connected.
photo-13-1.jpg
 
Up to the spa panel. Power is entering from the back. 6/4 SOOW is coming into the panel from the bottom and goes to the Control Panel.
photo-3-2.jpg
There is your problem. You have the out going neutral attached to the inbound neutral. It must be attached to the GFCI breaker.

Like this:

power-panel-5.jpg


Note that the outbound neutral gets attached to the GFCI breaker.

P-J
 
P-J,

Just before I read your note, my electrician buddy called and told me to move the outbound neutral to the breaker. I was quite relieved that I got the same message twice!

I moved the neutral to the breaker and viola! The 240v/50a service works just great!

Thank you!
Paul
 
Got some testing done at lunch. Both the HLT and BK hold water just fine and the elements heat up the water. I didn't check the times as I only heated the water for a about 10 minutes. A full water brew will be done in a couple of days.
 
Hey guys, I've finally finished my e-rig! Many thanks to P-J for providing the schematic, answering questions, and providing troubleshooting assistance. Many thanks to Kal as well for his website and detailed information on implementing an e-brewery. Without these two guys I couldn't have planned and executed this build. Also a HUGE thanks to my electrician buddy for providing the panel and the wiring plus installing the wiring. Those are key components in this build.

And to all of the e-brewery builders who have blazed the trail before me. You guys ROCK! :tank::rockin:

Here's a picture of the entire rig. The power cord is coiled up and laying under the rig. Ignore the big blue canister. It's the house vacuum.
photo-2-5.jpg


A pic of the resources. 240v 50a GFCI protected sub-panel, 120v 20a extension cord (who knows what I'll use that for), and cold water hose bib with RV hose.
photo-3-3.jpg


RIMs tube, element housings, pump, and water filter (the line runs inside the vertical frame section.
photo-4-2.jpg


The control panel and HLT (note hose coming out of the frame section and into the HLT.
photo-5-2.jpg


Finally, the control panel all lit up. The green numbers on the 2 PIDs on the right are displaying the time in minutes left in the countdown.
photo-15.jpg


What a great time I had with this build! Now to do my first batch on it. I'm planning my American Wheat Ale, but the date hasn't been set yet since the desk isn't finished.

Paul
 
Woo hoo!! Water brew went great this morning. There was a minor leak in my 3 year old CFC but that was solved by tightening the screw clamp. I'm excited to be able to brew again. I haven't brewed since January...
 
I've donated 15 gallons to the St Louis Brewers Heritage Festival. I'm brewing up a brown ale and an American Wheat Ale. Gotta get going since the festival is June just 4 weeks away...
 
Well, I brewed an American Wheat Ale tonight. Freakin' awesome! The boil was the most quiet I have ever experienced!!

All I can say is WOW! I just finished brewing on this system and it is so quiet! The pump is now the noisiest component, and it's pretty quiet too. When the wort was boiling there was just the faintest boiling sound.

The best part was as I was nearing the start of the boil, the foam got pretty high. Usually I reach for a spray bottle of water to simmer it down. This time I just turned off the element and viola! No boil over. Amazing. and I trimmed 25 minutes off my regular brew time for this beer. And I spent 50 minutes cleaning everything to boot - which is about normal for me.

It's all about the eBrewery now boys!

Here's the wort boiling. Also in the picture is my stirrer (horizontal) and the transfer hose from the MLT (vertical), plus the spring clamp holding a hop bag.
photo-16.jpg


Paul
 
Congrats on the first e brew!

I'm going for my third e-batch this weekend, a barley wine. I was all excited about the low noise of electric too until I realized I will probably need to put some sort of exhaust hood/blower in the winter time if I want to brew with the garage closed up. There goes the peace and quiet! Plus my chuggers aren't exactly whisper quiet either.

Ah well I am still wearing the e-brew underpants, since it is much cheaper than propane and soooo much easier to control mash temps! And its geeky cool too!
 
Nice build thread. The din-rail and wire management looks great. I'm in the planning and gathering stage of my PID ebrew build. So this is my inspiration.

Also, I will be at the St. Louis Brewers Heritage Festival. Can't wait to sample the brew you made on the rig.

Cheers!
 
Nice build thread. The din-rail and wire management looks great. I'm in the planning and gathering stage of my PID ebrew build. So this is my inspiration.

Also, I will be at the St. Louis Brewers Heritage Festival. Can't wait to sample the brew you made on the rig.

Cheers!

Thanks for the compliments! If you need any help, don't hesitate to ask. The guy from whom I got the contactors still has some. When those are gone he won't have any more for a long while. PM me if you're interested.

The wheat ale I brewed that's in this thread will be served at the festival. I don't know when, but I hope you enjoy all of the homebrews being served. Unfortunately, I will not be at the festival. It got moved from it's original date and it overlapped family vacation time.

Paul
 
Thanks Earthbound. I've read through your voluminous posts and you have great ideas. I'm sure I've used something from you in this build.

Ironmountain - did you make it to the Brewer's Heritage Festival? I'm sure you found no home brew this year. Only water and soda from the 'unlicensed' brewers.
 
Yes, the StL Brewer's Heritage Festival was great. I enjoyed myself probably a little too much. :drunk:

I was disappointed that the city shut down the homebrewers. Last year my favorite brew was a Double IPA one of the homebrewers was serving. So I was really looking forward to talking to the local home brewers and sampling their brew. Hopefully the law will account for situations such as this before next year's event.

Also, I wanted to mention that P-J created a schematic for my control panel loosely based on your build. I can't wait to get started on it. Thanks for the inspiration. And thanks for pointing me to P-J. He is awesome. I can't believe the time he puts into this community.
 
So I need some opinions:

I have a 2 tier, pyramidal type brew rig.

DSC06376.jpg


If I go with a HERMS setup I'd put the HEX in the HLT (up on the high shelf).
I would drain strike water from the HLT into the MLT,
Then recirculate the wort from the MLT pump it into the HEX in the HLT, then drain it back to the MLT. Are there extra cleaning issues to worry about?

If I go with a RIMS setup I do what I do now and drain from the MLT, to the pump, through the RIMS tube and back to the MLT.

A RIMS requires 3 elements - HLT (4500w), RIMS(2000w), & BK(4500w).
A HERMS requires 2 elements - HLT(5500w) and BK (5500w).

I brew 12 gallon batches, if I go with a RIMS, will I miss the 1000w I would have in the HLT and BK if I had a HERMS?


That looks quite similar to the one sitting in the St. Louis Wine and Beer Making shop.
 
How much did this end up costing you in parts (all inclusive)?
I am starting to source my E-Brewery and it is exactly like yours.
I thought about buying the control panel from www.theelectricbrewery.com, but that would make my e-brewery project not pass the financial department at my house :)
 
I added up the cost of this a couple of months ago. Without the cost of the panel itself nor the cost to install the 240v 50a service, I spent just over $900. I also already had the keggles and brewstand. If you're interested in seeing my tracking spreadsheet I'd be happy to email it to you. Just PM me your email address.
 
It's been a couple of years since I completed this build so I thought I'd provide an update.

I finally added those float switches to the HLT I was thinking about.

photo-17.jpg


The bottom one is inline with the SSR control circuit and is closed so long as the water level is above the element. When the water level drops below the element level, the switch opens breaking the circuit and the SSR goes to it's normally open position. Therefore no power to the element.

The top switch connects to the solenoid valve on the water line. That valve is normally closed. It opens when power is applied to it. The float switch is inline with the toggle switch installed with the pilot light on the front of the control panel. This float switch is situated such that when the water level is to the top of the HLT, the switch opens, cutting the power to the solenoid, which then returns to it's normally closed state (so long as the water pressure isn't too much).

Both connections are routed through the back of the control panel with barrel connectors so I can pull the HLT off the stand for maintenance.

photo1.jpg


photo2.jpg


To date, I have not dry fired my HLT element nor overflowed the HLT since installing those switches. That's a win-win!

I don't think there would be much else I would change, except make the water filter hanger more sturdy and use a stronger solenoid valve or one that is NO instead of NC.
 
Really nice build stlbeer! That's exactly what I intend to do. It makes my evening, saving a lot of time for my future build.
 
Try Gateway Electronics. They have lots of switches and lights. Occasionally they'll have SSRs of the proper amperage. I also got my heat sinks there.
 
Yeah, I'm pretty sure they haven't moved. Something could have happened in the last 3 months though.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
 
With a HERMS system you can not:
Simultaneously heat your sparge water to 168 and keep your mash temperature at 152.
Heat different mash steps in minutes.
RIMS is much less likely to overshoot your set point.
Yes you do need an extra element.
 
I would go with as much power as you can afford. That being said, a 30A circuit can run two 5000 Watt elements with ease. Running three would be an issue. So, if you have two 5000 watt elements and want to run them at the same tiime without fear of a meltdown, get the 50A wiring and circuit. Hire a very qualified and licensed electrician and get a permit to wire it.

Like a previous post mentioned, you are future-proof at 50A. I think the only increase would be parts like wires and circuits.
 
With a HERMS system you can not:
Simultaneously heat your sparge water to 168 and keep your mash temperature at 152.
Heat different mash steps in minutes.
RIMS is much less likely to overshoot your set point.
Yes you do need an extra element.

why not? i figure you can just turn the pump on and off to keep the mash temp constant while heating strike water.
 
why not? i figure you can just turn the pump on and off to keep the mash temp constant while heating strike water.

When you shut your pump off and your HLT is at 168 degrees, are you denaturing enzymes of the 50' of wort that is sitting still in the HERMS coil?
 
I would go with as much power as you can afford. That being said, a 30A circuit can run two 5000 Watt elements with ease. Running three would be an issue. So, if you have two 5000 watt elements and want to run them at the same tiime without fear of a meltdown, get the 50A wiring and circuit. Hire a very qualified and licensed electrician and get a permit to wire it.

Like a previous post mentioned, you are future-proof at 50A. I think the only increase would be parts like wires and circuits.
The costs would be for heavier 6 gauge wire bigger breakers and more expensive outlets... plus the 6 awg wire is a lot harder to run or fish in existing walls so depending one ones setup the cost difference can be huge... I run a 4500wHLT , 5500w bk and 2000w rims off my 30a circuit with no issues... the 4500w can run simultaneously with my 2000w rims but the bk cannot... its also powers my 3 dc pumps and panel...
 
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