Critique My Rig Idea - Single-Pump HERMS

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goofiefoot

Well-Known Member
Joined
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Location
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Before I really buckle down and start buying parts, I want to get some confirmation what I have in mind will work well. My plan to keep things simple, weldless, and relatively manual for the time being, but have the foresight to keep everything upgradeable.

I'm not concerned about my structure at this point, although I'm wanting a single-tier setup. I may build out of wood, I'm probably going to go natural gas, and I may want to later upgrade to 2 pumps and 3 burners.

Here's my proposal:
brewrig.jpg


HLT:
15.5G Keg, 1/2" Copper coil (my current immersion chiller), bulkheads/ 1/2" Compression fittings for coil, bulkhead/ 1/2" ball valve, thermometer/sight glass combo

MT:
70qt Cooler, cPVC manifold, bulkhead/ 1/2" ball valve, bulkhead/thermometer, bulkhead/sparge manifold (for recirculation)

KT:
15.5G Keg, bulkhead/ 1/2" ball valve (side pickup), bulkhead/side inlet (whirlpool), thermometer/sight glass combo


Here is how I envision this working:

Step 1: Heat strike water and sparge/recirculation water
brewrig1.jpg



Step 2: Strike water and grains into Mash Tun.
brewrig2.jpg



Step 3: (This is where I could use some pointers) Use recirculation to maintain temp, if need be, or step mash. Certainly use it to vorlauf.
brewrig3.jpg



Step 4: Pump to kettle and start heating.
brewrig4.jpg



Step 5: Pump in sparge water (I batch sparge currently, and I plan to continue - but feel free to make suggestions)
brewrig5.jpg



Step 6: Pump to kettle.
brewrig6.jpg



Step 7: Boil, etc. then pump through coil, with HLT full of ice water.
brewrig7.jpg



Step 8: Pump to fermenter.
brewrig8.jpg



That's my plan. Here are a few more questions I've thought of.

Quick disconnects - applicable at every external connection here? Anything to consider?

I could stir the ice water in the HLT while cooling to avoid a warm water pocket around the coil, but are there any other solutions?

I realize will need to start circulating boiling wort through the system 15 minutes or so before the end of the boil, but any other sanitation suggestions?

What do I need to keep in mind as far as placement for the coil inlet/outlet, and the whirlpool inlet? Any standard measurements?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go along, but this should be a good start. I've dug through quite a few build threads here, so hopefully I've addressed most major rookie mistakes.

I look forward to any feedback!
 
The only thing I am doing differently with my set up is raising the HLT above the rest to make it a two tier system. This way I can fly sparge the excess water from it and use the pump to take the wort from the MT to the BK. Besides that it is the exact same system I am building. Good luck on the build.
 
[...]
Quick disconnects - applicable at every external connection here? Anything to consider?

I went with stainless steel cam locks with silicone o rings, with male ends on all vessel fittings and pump ports, so the hoses are all female-female. On a bang-for-the-buck basis I think these QDs rule.

I could stir the ice water in the HLT while cooling to avoid a warm water pocket around the coil, but are there any other solutions?

Any single tier system could benefit from a second pump :)


I realize will need to start circulating boiling wort through the system 15 minutes or so before the end of the boil, but any other sanitation suggestions?

You'd have to circulate wort with the HLT empty to keep the wort hot enough to kill. When you're ready to start cooling, then you'd fill the HLT.

Otoh, going by your plan, as long as your HLT reaches the typical 170°F for mash out & sparging, if you circulate the mash for 15 minutes or so before sending the first runnings to the BK, it should cook anything lurking within the HEX coil.

What do I need to keep in mind as far as placement for the coil inlet/outlet, and the whirlpool inlet? Any standard measurements?

Given how many different vessel fitting arrangements I've seen pictured here, I doubt there's a standard. But I bet there's plenty of theory ;)

Cheers!
 
Go for two pumps! You will need to circulate the HLT water in some way to avoid cavatation. The second pump is the easiest way to achieve this by recirculating the HLT during mash.
 
I completely understand that 2 pumps would make this easier. Eventually, I most likely will have 2, but for the time being (especially with a baby on the way), I'm trying to save money where I can. Plus, I'm confident this can be done successfully with 1.

I'll stop by AHS again and take a look at the cam locks. I'm realizing that I'll either need a plug or a valve for when I don't have a hose connect to some of these ports.

Thanks for the good feedback. I'm looking forward to more. I can't have thought things through all that well. I'm just not that smart! ;)
 
None of the pictures showed so I fixed it for you.

Before I really buckle down and start buying parts, I want to get some confirmation what I have in mind will work well. My plan to keep things simple, weldless, and relatively manual for the time being, but have the foresight to keep everything upgradeable.

I'm not concerned about my structure at this point, although I'm wanting a single-tier setup. I may build out of wood, I'm probably going to go natural gas, and I may want to later upgrade to 2 pumps and 3 burners.

Here's my proposal:
th_brewrig.jpg


HLT:
15.5G Keg, 1/2" Copper coil (my current immersion chiller), bulkheads/ 1/2" Compression fittings for coil, bulkhead/ 1/2" ball valve, thermometer/sight glass combo

MT:
70qt Cooler, cPVC manifold, bulkhead/ 1/2" ball valve, bulkhead/thermometer, bulkhead/sparge manifold (for recirculation)

KT:
15.5G Keg, bulkhead/ 1/2" ball valve (side pickup), bulkhead/side inlet (whirlpool), thermometer/sight glass combo


Here is how I envision this working:

Step 1: Heat strike water and sparge/recirculation water
th_brewrig1.jpg



Step 2: Strike water and grains into Mash Tun.
th_brewrig2.jpg



Step 3: (This is where I could use some pointers) Use recirculation to maintain temp, if need be, or step mash. Certainly use it to vorlauf.
th_brewrig3.jpg



Step 4: Pump to kettle and start heating.
th_brewrig4.jpg



Step 5: Pump in sparge water (I batch sparge currently, and I plan to continue - but feel free to make suggestions)
th_brewrig5.jpg



Step 6: Pump to kettle.
th_brewrig6.jpg



Step 7: Boil, etc. then pump through coil, with HLT full of ice water.
th_brewrig7.jpg



Step 8: Pump to fermenter.
th_brewrig8.jpg



That's my plan. Here are a few more questions I've thought of.

Quick disconnects - applicable at every external connection here? Anything to consider?

I could stir the ice water in the HLT while cooling to avoid a warm water pocket around the coil, but are there any other solutions?

I realize will need to start circulating boiling wort through the system 15 minutes or so before the end of the boil, but any other sanitation suggestions?

What do I need to keep in mind as far as placement for the coil inlet/outlet, and the whirlpool inlet? Any standard measurements?

I'm sure I'll have more questions as I go along, but this should be a good start. I've dug through quite a few build threads here, so hopefully I've addressed most major rookie mistakes.

I look forward to any feedback!
 
Not sure what "fixed" means when all of the pictures actually showed fine before...

Cheers!
The images in the ops post do not show on my browser.

The entry for the first pix:
(IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/jasongoode/Brewing%20Beer/Brew%20Rig/brewrig.jpg[/IMG]
and this showed -
brewrig.jpg


I changed it to this:
(IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v417/jasongoode/Brewing%20Beer/Brew%20Rig/th_brewrig.jpg[/IMG]
and this showed -
th_brewrig.jpg


The difference? brewrig.jpg or th_brewrig.jpg

Anyway - sorry. Was just trying to help. That'll not happen again.
 
P-J - thanks for the concern. I was a little worried by your first response, as the images are pretty important to what I'm hoping to get feedback on. I'm glad they're visible.
 
I recently built a 2 vessel no sparge brew rig with one pump like this and it works great. Regularly netting me an efficiency of 70-75%
 
In step 5 you could pump your sparge water through the HEX coil to rinse it out before the water gets to the MLT. This would only require one more hose and would help keep that HEX coil really clean, especially since you want to run wort through the inside. Otherwise I really like your diagram and I am planning on building a similar system in the near future.

What are your plans for stirring/recirculating the HLT water?
 
In step 5 you could pump your sparge water through the HEX coil to rinse it out before the water gets to the MLT. This would only require one more hose and would help keep that HEX coil really clean, especially since you want to run wort through the inside. Otherwise I really like your diagram and I am planning on building a similar system in the near future.

What are your plans for stirring/recirculating the HLT water?

Nice! I like the suggestion! I've been planning for 3 hoses as it is, and this fits in perfectly.

As far as the HLT water, I'll start out and see how the system performs, then "innovate" as I see fit. Most likely I'll start out hand-stirring, then figure it out from there.
 
I don't see any pictures either but it sounds nice to me. I think that building things for this hobby is almost as much fun as the actual brewing it's self!
 
This thing has been a delayed work in progress, since my daughter was born a bit early on May 14. Once I catch up a bit on my sleep and get some sort of routine, I'll post some pics.

I have most everything set up and have completed a test run with water. The weak point right now is the HERMS coil as a chiller, as it just isn't cooling as quickly as I hoped. I plan to initially just go back to using it with water as an immersion chiller in the boil kettle. To answer your question, rwc332, it's a 25-30' coil.

I'll update when I can.
 
Congrats on the daughter! I'm in the same boat except mine is almost 17months old now.

I'm actually looking to do something very similar to this. I actually have the majority of the equipment now, but am hoping to get a welder at some point and build a proper stand for everything.

I would suggest going with a CFC or plate chiller rather than going back to the IC. Add a QD or two to the chiller and you won't go back. I recently made a CFC myself and am considering using my old IC as my HERMS coil as well. If you do that, you can then use your HLT ice bath HERMS coil as a pre-chiller if you want to get the temp down a little more.
 
You said you already have everything set up, but here are a few opinions I’ve had after setting up my single tier system. Hopefully it helps some people who are looking here:

1. If you’re looking to save money, aluminum camlocks from proflowdynamics are awesome if you don’t care about the bling bling factor of stainless. I bought extras just incase they get dinged up to bad.

2. In order to get efficient heat exchange, you need to continuously agitate the water in the HLT. This goes for mashing/sparging, but more importantly for chilling since the temperature differential is so much higher. A pump is probably the best idea for this, since you can use them both interchangeably (and also have a backup in the event that one fails), but a mechanical stirrer could also work at less of a capital cost. Agitation becomes MUCH more important if you get into temperature controlling via either electric or gas control panel.

3. Think about not locking yourself down by mounting the copper coil in the HLT, but rather allowing it to be moved between the HLT and BK by mounting it to a lid or something similar. That way you can use the coil as an immersion chiller if you would like (It saves on ice if you run tap water through the IC until the wort gets down to about 130 or so, then switch over to ice water recirculation… this is another opportunity where the second pump is an advantage).
 
Well, lo and behold! I took advantage of a lazy Saturday afternoon and got permission from the wifey to brew a batch while she looked after the baby. I had a large amount of Chinook in the freezer that needed using, so I put together a 10-gallon Arrogant Bastard clone. I didn't take much of an opportunity for a photo shoot, but I did take some quick pics as I went along.

I found a deal on an existing rig on craigslist (Juan, if you see this, thanks again!) that has a PID-controlled mini-HERMS coil. With the dimensions, I could have fit all 3 kegs, but found it easier to start off as a 2-tier system.

9873cb53.jpg


My mash tun with a CPVC recirculation arm. I think this will work great once I dial everything in. I ran a 45-minute mash through the HERMS, but got impatient with the heating element, and bumped up the temperature, which suddenly increased my mash temp over my target about halfway through. Not sure how much a difference that will make, but in the future I will trust the PID to do its job.

f9c5964b.jpg


ba32b593.jpg


HLT works great. However, I greatly underestimated my mash out temp and ended up well below 168° for mash out. Even then, I still ended up with 75% mash efficiency. I think that will boost up once I dial it all in.

bcbb057e.jpg


The keggle boil kettle is SO MUCH more efficient than my 15-gallon Mega Pot. When I have some time I want to officially compare the time to get 12 gallons to boil, and I think the keggle will win by a long shot. Not sure why.

05048922.jpg


I put together a CPVC whirlpool arm that needs some tweaking. Once the hose was attached, it weighed it down and wouldn't stay straight. I used my copper coil as an immersion chiller and once it was in the kettle, it did wedge in and worked pretty well. Until I messed with it...

8111549e.jpg


I had it in mind that I would leave it unglued so I can take it apart and clean it well. While I was cooling down (luckily right around 80°) I decided to adjust it and it completely came apart, blowing wort all over. I was able to grab the spewing hose and aim it back in the kettle. In the future, I'll make sure it's all solid before I start brewing. I plan to wrap the connecting pieces with teflon tape to make the connections tighter as well.

All in all, I'm glad I was able to brew on the new setup. I have a lot to tweak, but I think this will be so much more efficient than my previous setup in the long run. Stay tuned!
 
I've thought of a few issues/questions over the week.

It's only June and my tap water is already over 80°. I have a pre-chiller on my immersion coil, but even dumping 3 bags of ice over it starting at 110°, I was struggling to get my wort down below 80° - especially since the air temp in my garage was around 100°. If I went with a counterflow or plate chiller, I know I would still need a pre-chiller, but I'm still concerned how long it would take to cool wort down with that warm of tap water. In this case, would I want to look at recirculating my wort through the chiller back into the kettle until I reached proper temp, as opposed to draining through to a fermenter?

Plate chillers seem to be most efficient, but I know there's the worry of clogging with hops and protein. Assuming I can get my whirlpooling to work well, is that all I need, or would I also need some sort of strainer over my pickup as a precaution?

How do y'all keep your hoses clean? I swept my garage before I brewed, but since they make contact with the ground, they felt really gritty every time I picked them up to switch them. I kept a damp washrag on hand to wipe them down, and I'm not terribly concerned with anything getting into the beer, but it seems the silicone was a magnet for grit.

A buddy of mine just offered me his over-engineered 8'x2'x3' wooden workbench on casters that would be perfect for a single-tier base. The rack I have now places the kegs a bit too high for my comfort, and I'd love to have everything on one level, as originally intended. I scanned through the "Show Me Your Wood Rig" thread, but still am not sure the best way to use propane burners and avoid a major fire risk. The bench has a solid MDF top, but I'm thinking about cutting openings for the burners and supporting the kegs with 1" bar tube inserted into the cross supports. I'm open to suggestions.
 
I've thought of a few issues/questions over the week.

It's only June and my tap water is already over 80°. I have a pre-chiller on my immersion coil, but even dumping 3 bags of ice over it starting at 110°, I was struggling to get my wort down below 80° - especially since the air temp in my garage was around 100°. If I went with a counterflow or plate chiller, I know I would still need a pre-chiller, but I'm still concerned how long it would take to cool wort down with that warm of tap water. In this case, would I want to look at recirculating my wort through the chiller back into the kettle until I reached proper temp, as opposed to draining through to a fermenter?

Plate chillers seem to be most efficient, but I know there's the worry of clogging with hops and protein. Assuming I can get my whirlpooling to work well, is that all I need, or would I also need some sort of strainer over my pickup as a precaution?

How do y'all keep your hoses clean? I swept my garage before I brewed, but since they make contact with the ground, they felt really gritty every time I picked them up to switch them. I kept a damp washrag on hand to wipe them down, and I'm not terribly concerned with anything getting into the beer, but it seems the silicone was a magnet for grit.

A buddy of mine just offered me his over-engineered 8'x2'x3' wooden workbench on casters that would be perfect for a single-tier base. The rack I have now places the kegs a bit too high for my comfort, and I'd love to have everything on one level, as originally intended. I scanned through the "Show Me Your Wood Rig" thread, but still am not sure the best way to use propane burners and avoid a major fire risk. The bench has a solid MDF top, but I'm thinking about cutting openings for the burners and supporting the kegs with 1" bar tube inserted into the cross supports. I'm open to suggestions.

Im going through the same issues as you as far as chilling goes, I use an IC too and it seems like that last 10-15 degrees just wants to take forever! One way I get around it is once I am out of ice (or just sick of waiting), I transfer to the fermentor, and let the wort chill the rest of the way naturally over a couple hours (or overnight) in the ferm chamber. Pitch yeast in the morning.

Even though it works fine, I still feel like that’s not ideal, and have been thinking about picking up a plate chiller instead. I would probably rig it up so that I can recirculate if I wanted, but a lot of people have said they can get their wort down to within a few degrees of the chill water. You should be fine with a pre chiller or pond pump in a bucket of ice water. I don’t think you could get away with just a whirlpool though, you will need something else to filter out the hops material. I built a hop spider, $20 with equipment from Lowes.
 
I use mostly pellet hops. Do the paint strainer bags filter enough for a hop spider to be effective with pellets?

My buddy came through on the wooden workbench. I'll post photos and plans for suggestion later this week.
 
Sorry for the delay in update. The wooden 8'x2' workbench has proved to be a good solution, albeit with more than a few tweaks before I got it up and running.

cc38ffcd.jpg


I had the chance to brew a batch of my Bevo Balzac (say it out loud - it's funny, especially for us UT fans) last night and really try it out. I bought a counterflow chiller from AHS when I picked up my ingredients. My only big problem was chilling, as our tap water is up to about 90° and the air temp was hovering around 100°. I went through about 40 lbs of ice, which worked great while it lasted, however, once it melted away, my end wort temperature began climbing a bit, ending at about 83°. I went ahead and put the fermenter in the chest freezer to cool it down more before I aerated and pitched the yeast. I believe I can tweak the flow rate and ice distribution and fix the issue for summer brewing.

Not including cleanup, my 10-gallon brew took right at 4 hours. I'm very pleased!

e6290a87.jpg


I ended up with a bit of scorching on my countertop around the boil kettle. I believe if I can cut away a bit more material, and strategically place some flashing to divert heat wash, it won't be an issue.

4bd3b431.jpg


HLT works flawlessly through the brew, and came in handy for cleanup, as I added Oxy Clean and heated some water once I started the chill.

02b6483f.jpg


My only complaint with the workbench is that it puts the mash tun a bit too high to comfortably stir. I'm 6'3" and can stir it flat-footed, but I found standing on a 6" step I built for my old mash tun made dough-in easier.

273d3ec2.jpg


All in all, I'm pleased. I look forward to brewing more (and cooler weather).
 
Looking really great. Congrats on your success.

Next step? Go all electric. It's somewhat easy to accomplish.
Just take a look over on the Electric Brewing forum.

If you need a custom diagram, I'll try to help.

P-J
 
Looking really great. Congrats on your success.

Next step? Go all electric. It's somewhat easy to accomplish.
Just take a look over on the Electric Brewing forum.

If you need a custom diagram, I'll try to help.

P-J

I have been thinking about electric since I have a unused 240V connection from my kitchen remodel. The thought of having to drill into my kegs again gives me nightmares, so I'll probably use this system a bit longer before I rethink it.
 
I have been thinking about electric since I have a unused 240V connection from my kitchen remodel. The thought of having to drill into my kegs again gives me nightmares, so I'll probably use this system a bit longer before I rethink it.

Spend the money on a Greenlee punch, your nightmares will go away the first time you use it. I literally just finished punching 8 holes in three kegs, soldering couplers, and cutting the lids off. Took me about 2 hours for all three.
 
By the way, I'd advise against doing all of this when it's 108 degrees outside. I've got sweat in places I'd rather not imagine right now!
 
Fantastic diagrams and explanations - will use this to modify my system to a 2-tier, single-pump HERMS with 2 keggles, 2 burners, and a cooler mash-tun
 
I was wondering where you got the reflective material that is on the HLT?

Meant to just quote :drunk:

It's called Reflectix, home depot carries them for about $16 a roll. One roll was enough to wrap my BK and HLT twice and wrap the mash tun once, and do the bottoms. They sell a tape to go with it as well with the same brand name.

*edit: I use sanke kegs
 
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