5.2 stabilizer vs brewing salts

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sorefingers23

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I'm pretty sure that brewing salts are better than 5.2, but I wanna know how well or how bad 5.2 works compared to brewing salts, I'm interested to try a recipe that I've already done and use 5.2 and compare it to the one with out water adjustments
 
I'm interested for you to try that too. Do you have a pH meter to inform you of the efficacy of the 5.2 in doing what it claims vice control and salts-added batches?
 
The goals of water treatment in brewing are:
A. Establish proper mash pH
B. Insure adequate minerals for a good, bright wort and yeast health
C. Increase or decrease flavor qualities in the finished beer.

Salts are effective to some extent in A, B and C. 5.2 promises only A but does not deliver.
 
The real question you need to ask yourself, do you really need 5.2?

Plug your water and your next grainbill into Bru'n water and see what it says, i'll bet your close. Also, if you are a little low ... the amylases work better at slightly lower pH's.
 
Ditto. 5.2 forces the pH to the right level (sometimes) but it does not provide necessary brewing ions, specifically Calcium but others as well, that are important to the brewing and fermentation processes.

5.2 never forces the pH to the right level, as it buffers at 5.7 ish (weakly) and that is too high according to nearly ever source that has addressed the subject.

It may be that the mash happens to be at an acceptable pH despite the use of 5.2.
 
5.2 never forces the pH to the right level, as it buffers at 5.7 ish (weakly) and that is too high according to nearly ever source that has addressed the subject.

It buffers to aroun 5.7 or 5.8 (can't remember and to lazy to go look it up) in distilled water but remember that we theorize that the monobasic phosphate in the malt is supposed to cause a proper ratio of mono to di basic when mixed with the dibasic in the product such that the pH would be correct (5.2 presumably as that's what's on the label). But no one has been able to demonstrate that it does. So perhaps we should say no one has ever seen it force the pH to the right level while many have seen it fail to do so.
 
It buffers to aroun 5.7 or 5.8 (can't remember and to lazy to go look it up) in distilled water but remember that we theorize that the monobasic phosphate in the malt is supposed to cause a proper ratio of mono to di basic when mixed with the dibasic in the product such that the pH would be correct (5.2 presumably as that's what's on the label). But no one has been able to demonstrate that it does. So perhaps we should say no one has ever seen it force the pH to the right level while many have seen it fail to do so.

We've touched on this before, but maybe it would "work" on sparge water? In my case, I've thought about it as I have alkaline tap water and use lactic acid (5 ml for 7 gallons) to acidify my sparge water if I'm doing a 10 gallon batch.

What about a tablespoon of the 5.2 buffer in the sparge water instead of the lactic acid? Would that be a chance to use up the leftover jar? At what point does the 5.2 stabilizer impart a flavor?
 
We've touched on this before, but maybe it would "work" on sparge water? In my case, I've thought about it as I have alkaline tap water and use lactic acid (5 ml for 7 gallons) to acidify my sparge water if I'm doing a 10 gallon batch.

What about a tablespoon of the 5.2 buffer in the sparge water instead of the lactic acid? Would that be a chance to use up the leftover jar? At what point does the 5.2 stabilizer impart a flavor?

When Kaiser had the sample tested by Ward Labs, his results showed that at the recommended dose, the sample will add 100ppm Na+ to the beer. Depending on your water that could be good or bad.
 
It is mostly monobasic sodium phosphate with a few percent dibasic sodium phosphate. It's pretty simple to calculate the sodium addition for a given weight of it knowing that. It is not very acidic so if your water is alkaline it will take quite a bit of it to pull the pH down to 5.7 (which is where it buffers in water). Far better to use phosphoric acid if you want to control sparge pH with phosphate. No sodium.
 
Well I bought some and used it last time I brewed. I know NOTHING about water..or my water..or the bottled water I use for brewing..so I figured it would atleast be a good way to get the ph right without knowing much about my water. My efficiency was WAY better than the batch I brewed without it. It works for me..
 
It is mostly monobasic sodium phosphate with a few percent dibasic sodium phosphate. It's pretty simple to calculate the sodium addition for a given weight of it knowing that. It is not very acidic so if your water is alkaline it will take quite a bit of it to pull the pH down to 5.7 (which is where it buffers in water). Far better to use phosphoric acid if you want to control sparge pH with phosphate. No sodium.

That makes sense- and I definitely don't need sodium in my beer!
 
Well I bought some and used it last time I brewed. I know NOTHING about water..or my water..or the bottled water I use for brewing..so I figured it would atleast be a good way to get the ph right without knowing much about my water. My efficiency was WAY better than the batch I brewed without it. It works for me..

If the beer tastes great, then it worked for you. That's good! My results were NOT good, although my efficiency has been fine. The beer didn't taste any better, the pH didn't drop enough, lighter colored beers didn't taste good, etc.

I have about 3/4 of an old tub hanging around, and was just thinking what do do with it.
 
The interesting thing about the stuff is that it "works great" for people who don't own or use a pH meter but that it doesn't work at all for people who do. ???
 
The interesting thing about the stuff is that it "works great" for people who don't own or use a pH meter but that it doesn't work at all for people who do. ???

That, right there, is why I love AJ. There are a lot of subjective parameters when it comes to brewing, but there is a lot of hard science too. A mash pH buffer definitely falls into the latter category. It can be measured objectively. It either buffers to the desired pH, or it doesn't.
 
I recently learned that a professional brewery here in Indiana uses 5.2 in their beers. Their dark beers are quite good. Their lighter beers suck, frankly.

This performance is in line with the findings that AJ and Kai have posted previously. 5.2 Stabilizer tends to move the mash pH UPWARD to around 5.7. For an acidic dark grist, that performance can be an asset. For a light colored grist with less acid, it is a serious detriment.

If you brew with distilled or RO water, 5.2 Stabilizer COULD be helpful if you're brewing a dark and acidic beer. Given that, a little knowledge of brewing water chemistry will help any brewer do a good job without 5.2 Stabilizer. Stay away.
 
Some guys on this board know a hell of a lot more about brewing water than some professional brewers I've met. I was once chatting with three head brewers from three different Gordon Bierschs and offered the opinion that home brewers take water a lot more seriously than pros do. They all laughed and heartily agreed.

FWIW two were local (DC metro area). They both use sauermalz and check pH - occasionally. The other guy was from the midwest somewhere (don't remember where). His mains water is so bad he has brewing water trucked in.
 
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