5G IIPA Recipe Critique

Making this beer this weekend, thought I would post to see if I got any input... I want it pretty hoppy, and want to minimize any "cloying sweetness." (Thus the sugar addition.) Depending on what temp I mash this, and how well the yeast attenuates - this beer could go up to 9.0%. Any tips for keeping any "hot" alcohol flavors our of it?

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Note 1 - this recipe started out as THIS ONE, just giving due credit, even though it is quite different.

Note 2 - we are making a "lot more" than 5G, but I scaled down the recipe in Beersmith to 5G size so it was easier to compare to other known recipes. Not looking for input on boil-off rate, volumes, etc.
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Recipe: 5G All Grain - Imperial Nipples
Style: Imperial IPA
TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
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Boil Size: 7.0 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.5 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.080 SG
Estimated Color: 10.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 112.1 IBUs - Bitterness Ratio 1.4
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.2 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes
Mash Temp 153

Ingredients:
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Amt Name Type # %/IBU
11 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (4.0 SRM) Grain 1 67.7 %
2 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (4.0 SRM) Grain 2 12.3 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 3 9.2 % (Note: in the 22G recipe, this is only 5.9% so something happened in the conversion)
8.0 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.1 %
8.0 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.1 %
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - First Wort 20.0 min Hop 6 11.5 IBUs
12.0 oz Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (1.0 SRM) Sugar 7 4.6 %
0.50 oz Magnum [14.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 8 21.9 IBUs
0.25 oz Warrior [15.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 11.7 IBUs
0.75 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 45.0 min Hop 10 21.6 IBUs
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] - Boil 30.0 min Hop 11 15.6 IBUs
1.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 15.0 min Hop 12 12.8 IBUs
1.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 13 17.0 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [12.00 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 14 0.0 IBUs
2.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 15
Will Dry hop with 3 or 4 oz with some combination of citra, simcoe, centennial, cascade, belma, etc (TBD)
153 Mash - 60 mins / 90 min Boil

Any observations, or ideas, share them.

For the grainbill, that's way too much crystal malt, even if it is "only" 5.9%, plus the carapils (also a cara- malt) of 3% plus the honey malt at 3%!

A better malt bill would be something like:

base malt (92%) (Some Munich in there, or maris otter would be good, as a character malt if desired)
corn sugar ( equaling about 1 pound per 5 gallons- about 3%?)
crystal malt (your choice, combined) no more than 5%

If you really want honey malt, use it in place of some of the crystal malt.

As far as "hot" flavors go, ferment on the cool side of the optimum fermentation temperature, and pitch plenty of yeast (consult mrmalty.com or yeastcalc for the amounts). That will prevent it from being boozy and/or hot.

As far as hopping, I'd leave out the warrior hops at 60 minutes as they aren't needed for IBUs. I'd move the other hops to later in the boil, and increase the amounts for lots of hops flavor and aroma.

Something like this:
.75 oz Magnum Boil 60.0 min (or to 50 IBUs with this addition)

1 oz Centennial 15 min
1 oz simcoe 10 minutes
1.5 oz cascade 5 minutes
1 oz centennial boil 1 minute
2 oz citra flame out

dryhop with plenty of hops

Yooper said:

For the grainbill, that's way too much crystal malt, even if it is "only" 5.9%, plus the carapils (also a cara- malt) of 3% plus the honey malt at 3%!

A better malt bill would be something like:

base malt (92%) (Some Munich in there, or maris otter would be good, as a character malt if desired)
corn sugar ( equaling about 1 pound per 5 gallons- about 3%?)
crystal malt (your choice, combined) no more than 5%

If you really want honey malt, use it in place of some of the crystal malt.

As far as "hot" flavors go, ferment on the cool side of the optimum fermentation temperature, and pitch plenty of yeast (consult mrmalty.com or yeastcalc for the amounts). That will prevent it from being boozy and/or hot.

As far as hopping, I'd leave out the warrior hops at 60 minutes as they aren't needed for IBUs. I'd move the other hops to later in the boil, and increase the amounts for lots of hops flavor and aroma.

Something like this:
.75 oz Magnum Boil 60.0 min (or to 50 IBUs with this addition)

1 oz Centennial 15 min
1 oz simcoe 10 minutes
1.5 oz cascade 5 minutes
1 oz centennial boil 1 minute
2 oz citra flame out

dryhop with plenty of hops

Click to expand...

Now that sounds tasty Yooper!

I agree with what Yooper said about your Crystal and Honey malt additions. You have WAY too much crystal in there. Personally, I try to keep crystal additions below 2% of my grist for IPA's. I would also ditch the Honey malt altogether but that's just because I don't like anything competing with the hops when I brew IPA's.

Your FWH addition with Cascade says 20 mins which doesn't make sense.

I would mash at 148-150 instead of 153. Especially since you say that you want it to be dry. As far as hot alcohol flavors go...MORE HOPS!!! Also heed Yooper's advice on fermentation temperature. While we're on the subject of hops, I would personally add more bittering addition hops with that high of a gravity to suit my personal preference. I would bump up the 60 min Magnum and Warrior additions to 1 oz each.

2 packets of S-05 is too much yeast IMO. Mr. Malty says you would only need 1.3 packets. You don't want to overpitch an IPA.

Other than that, everything looks legit.

I think any time Yooper comments on some kind of an IPA thread you can pretty much call it. That sounds great to me.

As far as the hot alcohol flavors go I always start any bigger beer towards the very bottom of the temp range and ramp it up later on to finish out.

Yooper said:

For the grainbill, that's way too much crystal malt, even if it is "only" 5.9%, plus the carapils (also a cara- malt) of 3% plus the honey malt at 3%!

A better malt bill would be something like:

base malt (92%) (Some Munich in there, or maris otter would be good, as a character malt if desired)
corn sugar ( equaling about 1 pound per 5 gallons- about 3%?)
crystal malt (your choice, combined) no more than 5%

If you really want honey malt, use it in place of some of the crystal malt.

As far as "hot" flavors go, ferment on the cool side of the optimum fermentation temperature, and pitch plenty of yeast (consult mrmalty.com or yeastcalc for the amounts). That will prevent it from being boozy and/or hot.

As far as hopping, I'd leave out the warrior hops at 60 minutes as they aren't needed for IBUs. I'd move the other hops to later in the boil, and increase the amounts for lots of hops flavor and aroma.

Click to expand...

Thanks Mrs yooper.. I was wondering if I had gone "too heavy" on the specialty grains. Everything but the 2-row has already been milled, mixed together, and bagged - but one option would be to use 1/2 of it, what do you think?

Also, when you say leave out the warrior @60 minutes what do you mean by "they aren't needed for IBU'S?" Are you suggesting lowering overall bitterness for better balance?

d_striker said:

I agree with what Yooper said about your Crystal and Honey malt additions. You have WAY too much crystal in there. Personally, I try to keep crystal additions below 2% of my grist for IPA's. I would also ditch the Honey malt altogether but that's just because I don't like anything competing with the hops when I brew IPA's.

Your FWH addition with Cascade says 20 mins which doesn't make sense.

I would mash at 148-150 instead of 153. Especially since you say that you want it to be dry. As far as hot alcohol flavors go...MORE HOPS!!! While we're on the subject of hops, I would also add more bittering addition hops with that high of a gravity. I would bump up the 60 min Magnum and Warrior additions to 1 oz each.

2 packets of S-05 is too much yeast IMO. Mr. Malty says you would only need 1.3 packets. You don't want to overpitch an IPA.

Other than that, everything looks legit.

Click to expand...

I have the FWH @20 minutes after reading lots of debates on whether to use 20 vs full boil time to calculate IBU. Denny suggested using 20, so that's what I went with.

i was leaning towards more bitterness too, but hooper advised lowering, so will have to think about it.

Will lower mash by 5 degrees - wanted to do so, but was "afraid" of coming out mid 9% (my brew partner prefers lower ABV beers.) now that I plan to remove some of the cara-malts, and lower the OG, I can get away with it.

Lastly, on the yeast, I have 6 packs of dry us-05 I will use for 22G, I just didn't want to "explain" that in the recipe. If I only use 1/2 the cara-malts like suggested, that will lower the OG enough that I could probably scale it down to 1 pkg per 5G. We use oxygen and have really good temp control. Think we will start fermentation at 62.

Thanks for the feedback

br1dge said:

I have the FWH @20 minutes after reading lots of debates on whether to use 20 vs full boil time to calculate IBU. Denny suggested using 20, so that's what I went with.

i was leaning towards more bitterness too, but hooper advised lowering, so will have to think about it.

Will lower mash by 5 degrees - wanted to do so, but was "afraid" of coming out mid 9% (my brew partner prefers lower ABV beers.) now that I plan to remove some of the cara-malts, and lower the OG, I can get away with it.

Lastly, on the yeast, I have 6 packs of dry us-05 I will use for 22G, I just didn't want to "explain" that in the recipe. If I only use 1/2 the cara-malts like suggested, that will lower the OG enough that I could probably scale it down to 1 pkg per 5G. We use oxygen and have really good temp control. Think we will start fermentation at 62.

Thanks for the feedback

Click to expand...

Yeah, I suppose the bittering additions all boil down to what suits your palate.

I guess I don't understand your FWH addition. Do you FWH and then remove those hops somehow after 20 mins?

d_striker said:

Yeah, I suppose the bittering additions all boil down to what suits your palate.

I guess I don't understand your FWH addition. Do you FWH and then remove those hops somehow after 20 mins?

Click to expand...

Do not plan to remove them. From what I understand, with FWH, the perceived bitterness is roughly equivalent to what you would get if you used as a 20 minute addition. Below is a link to one of many threads on the topic. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/hop-impact-first-wort-hopping-68661/

br1dge said:

Do not plan to remove them. From what I understand, with FWH, the perceived bitterness is roughly equivalent to what you would get if you used as a 20 minute addition. Below is a link to one of many threads on the topic. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/hop-impact-first-wort-hopping-68661/

Click to expand...

Aha, thanks for sharing that link.

I guess I'm in the minority that calculates the FWH addition as a full boil addition.

In my experience, FWH does impart the IBUs of a 60 minute boil, but in a "smoother" bittering, so I always count them as 60 minute hops.

What I was saying (badly, I guess!) is that you don't need 102 IBUs (or whatever). Sure, you want firm bitterness, but the 60 minute hops and the FWH should be sufficient, and you want MORE hops flavor and aroma, so moving the hops to later in the boil (and bulking them up) will give you all of the above.

If the grains are already milled, not much you can do now. You can try mashing at 149 for 75 minutes, and make sure to really aerate the wort before pitching the yeast to make sure it fully attenuates.

I don't like very many sweet IIPAs/IPAs, but you need some malt backbone. Instead of overloading the crystal and honey malts, I'd rather see a couple of pounds of Munich malt in the grainbill. That gives a nice deep malt backbone, but not cloying sweetness. Of course, there are many people who like sweet/caramelly IIPAs so it's a matter of taste.

Yooper said:

In my experience, FWH does impart the IBUs of a 60 minute boil, but in a "smoother" bittering, so I always count them as 60 minute hops.

What I was saying (badly, I guess!) is that you don't need 102 IBUs (or whatever). Sure, you want firm bitterness, but the 60 minute hops and the FWH should be sufficient, and you want MORE hops flavor and aroma, so moving the hops to later in the boil (and bulking them up) will give you all of the above.

If the grains are already milled, not much you can do now. You can try mashing at 149 for 75 minutes, and make sure to really aerate the wort before pitching the yeast to make sure it fully attenuates.

I don't like very many sweet IIPAs/IPAs, but you need some malt backbone. Instead of overloading the crystal and honey malts, I'd rather see a couple of pounds of Munich malt in the grainbill. That gives a nice deep malt backbone, but not cloying sweetness. Of course, there are many people who like sweet/caramelly IIPAs so it's a matter of taste.

Click to expand...

I don't like sweet iipa a either. Meant for the Maris otter to add some malt, but guess I overdid it with the cara-malts. I am planning to just add 1/2 of them, so will repost the revised recipe..

Out of curiosity, what would you expect to gain from a longer mash 60 vs 75 minutes?

Yooper said:

In my experience, FWH does impart the IBUs of a 60 minute boil, but in a "smoother" bittering, so I always count them as 60 minute hops.

What I was saying (badly, I guess!) is that you don't need 102 IBUs (or whatever). Sure, you want firm bitterness, but the 60 minute hops and the FWH should be sufficient, and you want MORE hops flavor and aroma, so moving the hops to later in the boil (and bulking them up) will give you all of the above.

If the grains are already milled, not much you can do now. You can try mashing at 149 for 75 minutes, and make sure to really aerate the wort before pitching the yeast to make sure it fully attenuates.

I don't like very many sweet IIPAs/IPAs, but you need some malt backbone. Instead of overloading the crystal and honey malts, I'd rather see a couple of pounds of Munich malt in the grainbill. That gives a nice deep malt backbone, but not cloying sweetness. Of course, there are many people who like sweet/caramelly IIPAs so it's a matter of taste.

Click to expand...

I missed the part in your first post where you mentioned the 60 min Magnum addition to 50 IBU's. I was going off of his grainbill that referenced only 21 IBU's from the Magnum addition and dropping the Warrior completely.

What you're saying makes sense.

br1dge said:

Out of curiosity, what would you expect to gain from a longer mash 60 vs 75 minutes?

Click to expand...

Conversion! Mashing at a cooler temperature, say of 147-149, means it may take a wee bit longer for full conversion. Maybe not, but it can't hurt and can only help. If I mash at 150 or lower, or use adjuncts, I'll extend the mash time and then check for conversion.