contemplating an herbal brew with damiana, mugwort, weird stuff.

ive found all of these sites promoting herbs for smoking that induce euphoric or semi-psychedelic experiences but i would be more interested in using such herbs either in conjunction with my hops or in place of my hops. anyone have any background with this? maybe brew a crazy ale with damiana, california poppy and mugwort...

Start with this book



http://www.amazon.com/dp/0937381667/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

acred and Herbal Healing Beers: The Secrets of Ancient Fermentation by Stephen Harrod Buhner is a book that takes a devotes more than 500 pages to the ingredients and techniques that were once apart of beer brewing before the pale European lager conquered the world. It covers some beers that most beer nerds will have heard of and a few will have brewed, gruit, kvass, and sahti for example, but for the most part it talks about things that very few people will have heard of (let alone brewed), nettle beer, oak bark ale, and saffron beer for example.

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Or this book
http://www.amazon.com/Homebrewers-Garden-Easily-Prepare-Brewing/dp/1580170102

I have looked into a few of these brews. The only one that was mildly successful was using kava kava. Just let it steep at flame-out or "dry-hop" with it. It needs to go with a big beer and something with some mouthfeel or you get way too much of the earthy taste.

I'm curious what your other ideas are.

I just brewed a gruit ale. Yarrow, mugwart, marsh rosemary, and sweet gale.

It's not carbed yet, just got it into bottles. I did try a sample though...it tastes like an amber ale (cuz I used amber malt) with a strange herby taste at the end. It's not BAD, but it will take some getting use to.

You can find info on gruits on the web. Here's a pretty informative site to start with.
http://www.gruitale.com/intro_en.htm

Where did you get your ingredients? That always seems to be an interesting part with these brews.

i dont want to read a book lol i just want some personal testimony.. im thinking of adding some damiana into a brew.

fair enough.

I brewed a summer-wheat ale with a mix of yarrow lavender and chamomile added at flame out. It had a mild sweet floral-herbal aroma I enjoyed and found I would have enjoyed being stronger. I used only a few grams of each.

cool. ive been wanting to do a wheat ale with some real fruit, do you think dry hopping with some floral herbs would be a bit much for one brew to handle?

I made a wormwood (Artemisia absinthium) pale a few years ago.

Unfortunately the herb in quantities used is quite bitter and acrid in flavor. No real noticable effects either.

That said, I often add herbs to my brews - sage, lavender, cilantro, rosemary, oregano, basil...I could go on for days. Very worthwhile to experiment with.

scottmd06 said:

i dont want to read a book lol i just want some personal testimony.. im thinking of adding some damiana into a brew.

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Hmmmm.

If you have a combination that you already like go for it. Otherwise I would split the batch, add fruit to part and herb to another part, and blend to taste later.

Sounds good. Thanks!

So when you guys are making these types of beers you usually add the herbs at flame out of dry hop with them?
I have found it much easier and better controlled to make concentrated teas and dose samples of base beer. Once I find a level I like then I dose as much as I want. I also find that flavoring doesn't scale linearing.
For example, if I add a teaspoon to 12 oz. And therefore add 10 t for a gallon (128 oz) it comes out too strong.
I am also a big fan of syrups and dosing after you pour the beer. Especially with fruit, just as they do with Berliner Weiss.

I read up on the herbs, looked over several recipe's, noted what they had in common, and came up with this herb/addition schedule:

0.5 oz Mugwort 60 min
0.5 oz Yarrow 60 min
1 gram sweet gale 10 min
0.12 oz marsh rosemary 10 min

Mine are still carbing/conditioning, but when I sampled it I can definately taste the herb flavors, and they are not overpowering. Things can change with time though.

Now I just have to try to isolate which flavors I like and which herbs contribute those flavors.

This thread reminded me of some Native plant and herbs I tried a couple weeks back. I made a tea with 6 different herbs or spices:
Coriander
Mexican Elderberry Berries (dried)
Pearly Everlasting
White Sage
California Sagebrush
Douglas Mugwort
I also did a more detailed write-up with pictures on my blog:
http://jeffreycrane.blogspot.com/2010/10/i-have-been-wanting-to-test-different.html

If anyone has any ideas for future tastings let me know.

Most psychoactive substances aren't water soluble. They are alchohol soluble but not enough in beer I'd think.

I've tried a lot of these crazy herbs and the one that had the most effect was actually catnip. Catnip tea gave me some good closed-eye visuals soooooo i'd try that.

I have heard the same. For these you need to make a high strength tincture and then you can add to the beer.
It is a matter of knowing what the active ingredients are soluble in. Which is pretty easy now with the inter web.

ericd in the case of damiana it is water soluble. One of the most common methods people consume it is in tea. Although if he wants to make it strong enough to get it's euphoric abilities he will have to make it taste very strong. Since at the strength most people drink it. It's fairly strong tasting ,and will only have about the effect of St John's worth. It does have a pleasant taste though, just not sure how pleasant it will be if you use enough to do what you're suggesting.

I still need to find these different herbs and see how the taste/smell before I even commit to which I want to experiment with. Im just reluctant to start ordering herbs I may never use because they would ruin the flavor of a beer. Ill try to research some of the combinations that you guys have suggested.

Revvy said:

Start with this book

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0937381667/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

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Be careful with that book. It had some interesting-looking recipies but the author clearly has an axe to grind and believes some things that are, well, let's just say they're not well-sourced by historians.

I know this thread is old, but I have a little experience here.

I've used damiana in brews several times. I recommend adding just before flameout (let it steep for at least 5 mins), plus "dry hopping." You can use a decent amount. The flavor is somewhat akin to sage, but not as earthy - a little cooler, brighter, almost minty, but not menthol. Very slightly fruity.

In Mexico they make liqueurs that are flavored exclusively with damiana.

Watch out using "natural smoke" recipes for herbal brews. Some of those herbs don't work well as drink. Lobelia in particular has a terrible bitter taste as a tea - like stale chewing tobacco.

I have a copy of Buhner's book. Great herbal reference, but I would suggest carefully considering using any of the actual recipes/techniques for brewing. If you know how to brew, you can use the herbal info and skip the brewing info.

Can I use Damiana Liquor? I have a bottle getting old, some maybe I could use it with a Pale Ale...

I recently saw damiana and some other interesting herbs at a local ethnic grocery store and thought about how I could use them in brewing but since I didn't know much about them I gave them a pass at this time. Not sure I want herby beer with psychoactive properties.

Guys, anytime you see damiana or other herbs being sold as psychedelic, be aware that they are what's called "spice", which is normal herbs sprayed with the new synthetic THC chemicals which have been legal, but are now getting added to the controlled substance list.

These chemicals are water soluble, but are totally unresearched for human consumption. They are surprisingly potent, and while there aren't many official overdoses, the potential is there.

So if you want to experiment with herbs, make sure you are buying the "pure" herb and not the sprayed, quasi-legal synthetic cannabinoids.

I feel really confuse with all the Damiana stuff. Here at Mexico, Damiana usually can be buy in liquour or plain and dry leaves to make tea. There's not any concern about possible psychedelic effects, in fact you can normally buy martinis with vodka and damiana in a bar (they tastes great, using Absolute Citrus)

Is a different Damiana at United States or what?

Returning to my question, could I add some liquor in the bottling phase?

hxxbin said:

Damiana usually can be buy in liquour or plain and dry leaves to make tea. There's not any concern about possible psychedelic effects,

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Exactly. Normal damiana isn't psychoactive at all, except for a slight stimulant effect.

When you see 'damiana' advertised as psychoactive in the US, it is because it's been coated with synthetic cannabinoids. As such I would NOT recommend its usage in beer, due to (a) the potential for overdose and (b) its sketchy legal status (the cannabinoids, not the plant itself, although the line get blurry).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damiana

I have a Hefe Weizen in fermentation, I'll add some Damiana liquor before bottling... I hope this works

Sorry this is old but being a rookie and actually utilizing the search option I found this thread. Did anyone actually experiment and if so how did things turn out? I have been brewing for a few years now (no pro by any means) and have really been drawn to using more homegrown herbs in conjunction with my homegrown hops or even in place of them. I read an article in BYO a while back that brought up creeping Charlie, sage and a few other herbs for brewing. I have the raw material but am looking for ideas. I was thinking of just brewing a nice light session beer with the addition or replacement of hops with herbs just to experiment a little. Any results you all had would be appreciated.