How much time till expiry for yeast upon receipt is acceptable?

I couldn't find anything on here, but was just wondering in your opinions, what is an acceptable amount of time buffer until the "best by" date on a liquid yeast vile when you receive it? 1 month, 2 months, 3 months?

For example, if you order some yeast online and it's at your door in 5 days, how much time should be expected to be left before the "best by" date is reached? What is a reasonable expectation?

One of the shops i use has best before date on the website and price dropps for every month it ages
Other one gives you double up if it has less then 2 months left

I wouldnt buy liquid yeast from anyone who didnt have one of this guarantees

You mean like getting a package that has 2 days before it passes it's best by date? Took me 4 steps to get that lager starter big enough, pain in the ****ing ass.

Well, I won't name names, but I just ordered 2 vials from a vendor near me and one day was 50 days out, the other 25 days out. On the 2nd vial, I'm stuck doing a massive multi-step starter and I'm just beginning brewing, so I'm probably gonna screw it up. Just annoying, cause I probably would have done 2 packs, but then I'm paying for shipping and another yeast, so I'm in like 25 bucks in yeast alone.

SwampassJ- That sucks.

janivar123 said:

One of the shops i use has best before date on the website and price dropps for every month it ages
Other one gives you double up if it has less then 2 months left

I wouldnt buy liquid yeast from anyone who didnt have one of this guarantees

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I don't think I'll be getting yeast here anymore. Where do you get yours?

Before ordering I'd check with the store for the policy. Now that you have the yeast why not ask them about it, maybe they will make a price adjustment. I'm lucky in that I can go look, check dates and get my yeast from a high turnover LHBS. All in all, getting a yeast before the best buy date seems ok to me.

If you make a starter, then the age of a yeast isn't really an issue. When you make a starter, and grow it, you're replicating more yeast to make up for any loss. You're making new, fresh yeast.

Bobby M did a test on year old stored yeast here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/testing-limits-yeast-viability-126707/

And my LHBS cells outdated tubes and packs of yeast dirt cheap 2-3 dollars each and I usually grab a couple tubes of belgian or other interesting yeast when I am there and shove it in my fridge. and I have never had a problem with one of those tubes.

I usually make a starter but I once pitched a year old tube of Belgian High Gravity yeast directly into a 2.5 gallon batch of a Belgian Dark Strong, and after about 4 days it took off beautifully.
The purpose of a starter is to reproduce any viable cells in a batch of yeast....that;s how we can grow a starter form the dregs in a bottle of beer incrementally...and that beer may be months old.

Even if you have a few still living cells, you can grow them....That's how we can harvest a huge starter (incrementally) from the dregs in a bottle of some commercial beers. You take those few living cells and grow them into more.

I wouldn't pay full price for something that is expired, but I don't worry about the dates on them. My lhbs just discounts any of the old smack packs and tubes....

Revvy said:

If you make a starter, then the age of a yeast isn't really an issue. When you make a starter, and grow it, you're replicating more yeast to make up for any loss. You're making new, fresh yeast.

Bobby M did a test on year old stored yeast here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/testing-limits-yeast-viability-126707/

And my LHBS cells outdated tubes and packs of yeast dirt cheap 2-3 dollars each and I usually grab a couple tubes of belgian or other interesting yeast when I am there and shove it in my fridge. and I have never had a problem with one of those tubes.

I usually make a starter but I once pitched a year old tube of Belgian High Gravity yeast directly into a 2.5 gallon batch of a Belgian Dark Strong, and after about 4 days it took off beautifully.
The purpose of a starter is to reproduce any viable cells in a batch of yeast....that;s how we can grow a starter form the dregs in a bottle of beer incrementally...and that beer may be months old.

Even if you have a few still living cells, you can grow them....That's how we can harvest a huge starter (incrementally) from the dregs in a bottle of some commercial beers. You take those few living cells and grow them into more.

I wouldn't pay full price for something that is expired, but I don't worry about the dates on them. My lhbs just discounts any of the old smack packs and tubes....

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Well said, I tend to get worked up over these things quickly. This is only my 3rd starter, but will be my first multi-step starter, and I just wasn't prepared for it and had to use all my DME that I was going to use in my next batch for the 2nd stage of starter. It wouldn't be as bad if I had a LHBS here, but everything I do is online so the time and costs escalate quickly.

In Norway

Sorry...

The expiration was 25-50 days after you received it or before. I'm confused. If the first, sounds fine to me...

The date is pretty useless in my mind. If the yeast is more than a couple months old, I make a 500ml stir-plate starter and let it go for 12 hours and then treat that like a brand spanking vial/pack of yeast for making an appropriate sized starter. I have several over a year old vials/packs of yeast that I have used without any issue (I do 2x 500ml steps for those). Either way you should make a starter. If you don't have time for a proper starter with old yeast, then you probably don't have time for a proper starter with "fresh" yeast.

Hammy71 said:

The expiration was 25-50 days after you received it or before. I'm confused. If the first, sounds fine to me...

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I had 25 days till expiration upon opening the package.

Beezer94 said:

The date is pretty useless in my mind. If the yeast is more than a couple months old, I make a 500ml stir-plate starter and let it go for 12 hours and then treat that like a brand spanking vial/pack of yeast for making an appropriate sized starter. I have several over a year old vials/packs of yeast that I have used without any issue (I do 2x 500ml steps for those). Either way you should make a starter. If you don't have time for a proper starter with old yeast, then you probably don't have time for a proper starter with "fresh" yeast.

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I am doing a multistep starter on it, I just wanted to know what was deemed acceptable in the community on vial expiration when ordered online.

theveganbrewer said:

I am doing a multistep starter on it, I just wanted to know what was deemed acceptable in the community on vial expiration when ordered online.

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White Labs only puts 4 months after making it for best by date, so even if the shops sells it right away, it will probably only have 3 months left by the time it reaches a brewer. I would say anything with 3-4+ weeks left is acceptable from a full-price standpoint. If you know a head of time that you won't be using the yeast for 4-6 weeks it wouldn't hurt to call before you order.

I prefer to go by mrmalty yeast calculator for my pitching rate and not make substitutions of similar yeasts. If my recipe is 1.070 and the yeast is 3 months old, I am approaching the limits of a single 5L starter and approaching the cost of a second pitch of yeast when I consider the cost of my DME to make the starter. If it is a year-round strain of yeast, this is when I feel like I am not getting the best deal and desire to shop around. If I am making a Lager, or very strong beer, or 10 gallons, or a combination, I need considerably more yeast cells and this increases my desire to start with fresh, viable yeast. I'd probably need to step the starter or brew a weak batch of beer just to grow a yeast cake, which I would prefer to avoid. If the strain is limited release or hard to get fresh for a good reason, I'll bite the bullet and put up with the extra work, but if it is a common strain then its all about finding a vendor that will promptly send you fresh yeast since it benefits you and your wallet.

ps. I'm still "a bit" annoyed that last week I locally found the yeast I wanted for that weekend but it was too old to be worthwhile at full price, so I scrubbed the brewday. Instead I ordered the same strain online on Sunday and it doesn't even look like it will ship this week and I still don't know why. It better not sit in the mail and/or be old by the time I get it, I will be livid. Yes I take this very seriously

Not sure I really understand the 'full price' statements. The yeast is not being sold after the expiration date. Do you demand the grocery store give you a discount of milk that expires in a week when the case next to it has milk that expires in 11 days? They sell day old bread cheap because it is 'day old' bread. Not because it will be old in a couple of days. I understand that if you plan on brewing months after you place an order the freshness of the yeast is important to you. But, for normal ordering purposes, I think a few weeks before the expiration date is fine. And like others have said. Make a starter...and no worries.

When I'm shooting for a target cell count, I'm making a larger starter for each day the yeast gets older. If you are just making a starter to improve it from where it was at, the age doesn't matter as much. When I see fit to spend $12 on DME and 3 nights of making starters to make up for old yeast, yeah it matters to me. Can't always just pick up a new pack, but when newer yeast is available to me it will save me money.

I agree with above, it turns out to be a waste when you have to buy more DME especially if you need it shipped. I would at least like to have the option of making a decision at the time of order if I pick up a 2nd vial and save myself the time of doing a multistage starter. Of course, the logistics of sending the yeast dates to every customer would be a nightmare, so I will just put a note with every order that if the yeast is ~3weeks till the date, to notify me and then I can make sure I have enough DME or just buy another vial.