Sparging vs large, full mash-tun

Curious as to how many out there are using large mash tuns and filling with all/the majority of the water they need and therefore using a really thin mash. I've seen a couple guys do this but also wonder about efficiency, etc. One guy just said "I don't like sparging so I just make a really high water:grain ratio in my large mash tun because it can handle the volume"

I'm a sparger, myself, but anyone else want to chime in?

I suppose if you have a way to heat it up once the saccharification is complete to the sparge temperatures, it could work. If the mash tun is also large enough to do this, it could work. I would also question the efficiency level they obtain this way though.

I might try it with a future batch with my soon to be new mash tun (keg conversion happening next weekend). I'll have it setup for RIMS, and be able to directly heat it on my propane burner. I have most of the hardware coming from NorCal (aka, Jaybird) for the conversion. The balance of what I'm using is coming from Rebel Brewer. :rockin: Two top notch vendors IMO...

Anyhoo, if you can test the method, or get details on how much grain they use and what the OG is (as well as how much wort they collect pre-boil) that would help to figure out their efficiency. For all we know it could be either really poor, or really, really good.

Thanks for the info. I've tasted the one guy's beer before and have no complaints. Yep that would be the way to go, heatable. But these are just picnic coolers.

Loss of heat / raise to mash out--yeah I can see the concern there, for sure.

Thanks

Do a search for "no sparge". One of my systems is a Brutus 20 which is essentially what you are describing. My efficiency is typically about 5 points lower than when I do a standard batch sparge. This can easily be made up with a bit more base malt.

I use a 60qt converted cooler. doing 5g batches at the moment. while i have the volume, I do however sparge. batch sparger here getting 80's for efficiency regularly

tchuklobrau said:

I use a 60qt converted cooler. doing 5g batches at the moment. while i have the volume, I do however sparge. batch sparger here getting 80's for efficiency regularly

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Same here. 78%. I don't really think I want to change anything. Brewing is the one thing I am not lazy about too. How long does it take to sparge anyway? 30 minutes extra. I don't even consider it extra. Its a part of my process. I got the big cooler because eventually I want to do big beers or maybe 10g but either way I want it to be future proof for a while.

Very true, Beezy. Thanks for the input. I like to sparge, too, because I like to (try--he says in brackets) get to proper mash out temperature but seem to fail at that often.

Having trouble hitting the temps is one of the reasons I'm going with the keg mash tun conversion. I'll be able to direct fire/heat it to make sure I hit the temps. With the recirculation setup, I shouldn't scorch grain in the process. Plus, I'm going with a full diameter false bottom (as per Jaybird's recommendation) with ball valve and dip tube (going with a SS 3 Pc ball valve)... I'll put the recirculation port/fitting high enough that I'll be able to do pretty much all my 5 gallon batches and most of my future 10 gallon batches. My cooler (formerly mash tun) will be a HLT for the near future. It might go to my brew buddy later, if he wants to migrate away from BIAB. Or change to BIAB in a 10 gallon cooler. :rockin:

I've been getting a good amount of hardware in the pursuit of getting better/easier mashes as well as cooling better/faster (plate chiller) and then getting better fermentation (O2 setup)... I never would have thought that I would be this deep into home brewing a year ago when I first discussed it with a friend. That was late in July 2010, by mid November I was starting. It's been a fun journey ever since...

I do full volume no sparge biab and have been consistently getting around 65% efficiency into the boiler. The reason I do no sparge is I've always read the first runnings are the highest quality wort. I mash at 150 for 90 mins in the kettle, so I can add heat as I need it.

Hitting temp with my cooler is a cinch as far as mash goes. I have hit every time using the calculators and the cooler as never dropped a degree for me. I think it might even hold for a 90 minute. Hitting 170 for sparge is a different story. Last time I put my strike at 190 and it was still about 160 the time before it was more like 150 but I hit 77.5 and 78% eff. I don't think it matters that much. I have heard people sparge with cool water?

Beezy, that's been my issue too (although the sparge temps vary)... I can hit the mash temp pretty reliably, and hold it for the time frame. But getting to the sparge temp isn't as reliable. Even if I do a mash-out, hitting the temp there, by the time the sparge water has been added, the temps are lower. Rather frustrating. So, I plan to eliminate the issue completely with the new mash tun setup... I'll use one of my current mash tuns as a HLT (probably the 10 gallon) until I get another propane burner. Once I get the second burner, I'll simply heat the sparge water to be ready when I need it. I might get another March pump when I get the second burner, so that I can use those to move the water/wort around as needed, faster.

Getting a bit off-topic but another couple guys just usually aim for 15 degrees above their needed mash temp for their strike water addition; I guess once you've got your system figured out well enough, with grain ratios, etc. that would suffice.

Sparging with COOL water... I'm no authority on brewing but that seems, well, 'odd'. You want to make your grain bed less fluid and not take the rest of the sugars out? I guess people do make 'cold tea',though, don't they?

Hopheader said:

Getting a bit off-topic but another couple guys just usually aim for 15 degrees above their needed mash temp for their strike water addition; I guess once you've got your system figured out well enough, with grain ratios, etc. that would suffice.

Sparging with COOL water... I'm no authority on brewing but that seems, well, 'odd'. You want to make your grain bed less fluid and not take the rest of the sugars out? I guess people do make 'cold tea',though, don't they?

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One time I totally blanked out on sparging and never heated my water. I got it up to about 100 then just said "the heck with it, at least it will get SOME sugars" and sparged with the relatively cool water. My efficiency on that batch was no different than usual. I still use hot water for sparging but I don't think it's as important as commonly believed.

Hopheader said:

Curious as to how many out there are using large mash tuns and filling with all/the majority of the water they need and therefore using a really thin mash. I've seen a couple guys do this but also wonder about efficiency, etc. One guy just said "I don't like sparging so I just make a really high water:grain ratio in my large mash tun because it can handle the volume"

I'm a sparger, myself, but anyone else want to chime in?

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You're effectively utilizing the "brew-in-a-bag" (aka BIAB) method, sans bag. Like any brewing process, there's pros and cons. Reduced efficiency can be a problem, but many proponents use finer crushes, and a voile bag and get efficiency percentages comparable to fly sparging.

I have a traditional, semi-automated, two-pump, 3-vessel system, but I've been experimenting with a makeshift recirculating BIAB system with intriguing results. More testing needed...

Check out aussiehomebrew.com as well as biabrewer.info for more information. The aussie's are at the forefront of this type of brewing.

Michael

I have never worried about sparge temps other than keeping them below 174. usually sparge with 168-170 water. i figured for the short time its in there did it really matter.

tchuklobrau said:

I have never worried about sparge temps other than keeping them below 174. usually sparge with 168-170 water. i figured for the short time its in there did it really matter.

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This is one thing that still confuses me. Is 170 your strike temp or the temp you are looking for in your tun before you sparge? At this point I am beating myself up for nothing because my system works but I have to know in theory here.

I have been mashing at 149 for 90 min. promash calculates my strike volume and temp for me. generally i preheat my tun with hot tap water about 15 min b4 im ready. generally for my 5g batches it has been 160 degree water with my 70 degree grains ends up at 149ish. ( decided for now im not gonna sweat the exact temps or water chemistry for now) Take my runnings at 90 min then dump my 170ish sparge water into the tun(average of 2-2.5 g) wait 10 min collect runnings then hit it again with the same volume of 170 water. stop collecting when i get between 6 and 6.5g

I don't mash out for batch sparging. I just add 150-170 water to the grain, mix and after about 10 minutes, drain again.

You *could* do a no sparge process and simply factor in more grain and use first runnings. You will be leaving behind a substantial amount of sugars though.

Frankly, for batch sparging, I don't think a single sparge is that big a deal. I usually heat up the water during the mash, so it's ready to go. And I start heating up the boil as soon as the first runnings are in the kettle.

I don't even know whats up with multiple sparges. I just see how much I got with my first runnings and then put in how much more I need plus a little bit. Pretty simple but it's getting the job done.