Apparently the US flag has been banned in a school

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1fastdoc

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I don't generally crosspost stuff but this got me pretty irritated and I thought people should know what's going on. So much for freedom of expression.

http://www.nbc17.com/midatlantic/ncn/news.apx.-content-articles-NCN-2007-09-11-0027.html

SAMPSON COUNTY, N.C. – On the sixth anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks, students at one high school were not allowed to wear clothes with an American flag.


Under a new school rule, students at Hobbton High School are not allowed to wear items with flags, from any country, including the United States.

The new rule stems from a controversy over students wearing shirts bearing flags of other countries.

Gayle Langston said her daughter, Jessica, was told to remove her Stars and Stripes t-shirt.

“Today she wanted to wear her shirt, and I had to tell her no,” said Langston. “She didn't like it at all because I knew it would get her in trouble. Of all days, 9/11, she could not wear her American Flag shirt.”

The superintendent of schools in Sampson County calls the situation unfortunate, but says educators didn’t want to be forced to pick and choose which flags should be permissible.

On Wednesday afternoon Superintendent Dr. L. Stewart Hobbs, Jr. released the following statement:

"We have had a disruption in school caused by the wearing of certain flags by some of our students. We are in the process of consulting with our legal counsel to address the issue presented."
 
For a lot of people, it's very disrespectful to wear a flag as clothing.

Now, I do not agree with the banning, just sayin' that this is a complicated issue.
 
I wonder what the disruption was over people wearing some other flag, seems like that should be the larger issue.

I don't have a problem with the run-of-the-mill clothes with the flag on it, but some of it crosses the line for me, like underwear and bathing suits. I do know some people who think it is disrespectful to put the flag on any type of clothes (then the clothes touch the ground ect...) but they are folks who take the flag very seriously (bought a spotlight so their's could stay outside at night, that type of thing).
 
Here they passed an unfunded mandate that requires a flag in each class room of a certain size. Many of the exsiting flags don't qualify.


Makes you look like a patriot if you voted for this bill.
If you voted against because you're aware of the pickle you put on underfunded schools.... well....
 
Yeah, it's not quite as simple as 'they banned the US flag'. School administrators like to ban stuff...and I gotta admit, if they decide to ban one flag and allow another, there'll be plenty of discrimination lawsuits shoved in their face. Put yourself in their shoes...what'd you do? Now, I don't know the specifics that led to them placing the original ban...but I do know that administrators these days are apt to ban things if they cause the slightest distraction. It's a sad state of affairs. Back in my day, the only thing they usually yelled at you for was a Big Johnson shirt. God those were stupid.
 
Techincally (per the flag code) they did the right thing.

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
Click to expand...
 
Is it "THE FLAG" or a representation of the flag.
This is where all of those proposed Constitutional amendments get bogged down.

Who eats a cupcake on the 4th of July with the little toothpick flag and holds a reverential flag burning ceremony?
 
olllllo said:
Is it "THE FLAG" or a representation of the flag.
This is where all of those proposed Constitutional amendments get bogged down.

Who eats a cupcake on the 4th of July with the little toothpick flag and holds a reverential flag burning ceremony?
Click to expand...

As silly as it sounds; it reads as if they should do just that.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc_sec_04_00000003----000-.html

§ 3. Use of flag for advertising purposes; mutilation of flag

The words “flag, standard, colors, or ensign”, as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.
Click to expand...

Personally speaking I think it would be silly to do that for every cupcake toothpick, t-shirt, car magnet and crepe paper banner but then again most of those things wouldn't exist if more people knew about flag etiquette.

I have to say though, that the jackasses that you see driving around with a shredded, dirty plastic flag flying from the window of their car really need an ass kicking followed by a lecture on the meanng of the word patriotism.
 
I think all parties involved are completely idiotic. Dressing up in flag attire because it is the anniversary of 911 is silly. I saw so many flags after the incident I was ready to puke. If you didn't hang a flag from your car you hated America blah blah blah. Anyone who knows anything about flag ettiqutte knows hanging a flag from your car is against flag ettiqutee. The clothing and everything else is kind of a gray area, but overdoing it makes you look like an idiot for sure.

Inspite of my opinion on wearing the flag I still don't think the school should have the right to ban it from clothing. Unless the clothing has vulgarity or profanity on it I think the schools should lay off and let the students wear whatever they want.
 
Ya know where this all started, don't cha? The banning of the stars and bars. The Flag of the Confederate states. Somebody shows up with a Lynyrd Skynyrd T-shirt, and somebody else gets offended.....Well, we can't just ban one flag, so we ban them all. Being from Kansas, I never really understood the whole "south pride" thing of displaying the Confederate states. It's ok to have southern pride, but maybe have pride in what the south is today, not what it was 150 years ago.

There is too much of this "zero tolerance" crap in school, now. Hell, when I was in grade school, all the cub scouts in my class had pocket knives, with hooks to hang them from your belt loop, for all to see. Now, you get suspended for having a nail clipper.....or asprin if there is a zero tolerance for drugs.
 
/agree - zero tolerance doesn't work for children or teenagers

+1 on kids wearing whatever the hell they want to school (unless it's truly offensive, i suppose :rolleyes:)
 
DeathBrewer said:
damn flagophiles.

i bought a swimming cap with a flag on it...cuz my only other option was turqoise and green cheetah patterns :eek:
Click to expand...


Hmmmm..the ONLY other option? ;)
 
my doctor tells me to swim and i've got long hair...i'm not going without a cap cuz swimming with long hair is FTL, not to mention cleaning out the chlorine. bleagh. :p
 
I remember the good old days when kids went to school and learned things. (nostalgic sigh)
 
I'm not 100% sold on school uniforms, but this is one debate that would be avoided by mandating a uniform at school.

Then again, it's sad that one cannot show patriotism for one's own country at a school largely funded by government/tax dollars.
 
Unfortunately we're getting to a point in this society where everything offends someone and unlike the good old days where being offended by something was part of a normal day and the right to be offensive was still protected, nowadays it seems like everyone has to walk on eggshells... Uh oh, I hope I didn't offend any chickens with that eggshell comment...;) :D

As for uniforms, I wore one everyday in catholic school, then I went to a public high school and was totally lost fashion wise...
 
the_bird said:
For a lot of people, it's very disrespectful to wear a flag as clothing.

Now, I do not agree with the banning, just sayin' that this is a complicated issue.
Click to expand...

It's actually illegal to wear a flag as clothing, but OK if the clothing has a flag on it.

Display the flag proudly and often. never let anyone tell you otherwise.
flag47.gif
 
As was previously mentioned, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the ban arose from some kid wearing the flag of the Confederate States. Odds are he or she associates that flag with being a Rebel and doesn't give a damn about what it stood for, and what it represents to others. Sad but true. History is lost on a lot of kids these days it seems. As for what Flags are supposed to be used for and their meaning, I'll leave that to others. (I have a feeling hb_99 could give us the history of flags, I however am too tired. ;) )

I on the other hand favor unis for kids in schools. And before anyone jumps, I went to yer typical Catholic school with light blue shirts and navy pants. And yes, I DESPISED them... Sadly tho, it seems like more kids, (not ALL mind you) these days put so much stock in the superficial... and the reason they are in school in the first place is lost...

In a nutshell, get a damn education, make something of yourself. Do something for society as a whole... Worry about who's wearing what at the Country Club when you retire, then go back to your yacht/summer home/5 star resort and bang your trophy wife/pool boy.

(hell that's my plan anyway. The trophy wife that is... :D )

Ize
 
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode04/usc_sup_01_4_10_1.html


TITLE 4 CHAPTER 1 § 8

8. Respect for flag

(d) The flag should never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up, in folds, but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below, should be used for covering a speaker’s desk, draping the front of the platform, and for decoration in general.
 
I just want to be sure I got this. A school in the United States of America, banned the wearing of T-shirt on which the flag of the United States of America is printed. I don't care how you look at this, it is complete and utter BS!!!!

This is what it is all about!
http://unkarock.addr.com/unkarock/flag.htm
 
the_bird said:
For a lot of people, it's very disrespectful to wear a flag as clothing.

Now, I do not agree with the banning, just sayin' that this is a complicated issue.
Click to expand...
It's not complicated at all for me. Let the kids wear all the red white and blue US clothing they want to.:mug:

Edit: Oh, and if you don't like it, don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out.
 
When I was a kid (hehe I am only 23) every class room had a flag in it. Now, one of my classes had a flag with 49 stars but, nonetheless, it was a flag. Is this still the case today or is that offensive too? Oh yeah, we said the Pledge of Allegiance every morning and had a moment of silence, damn straight!
 
I don't see the issue. Schools these days are routinely understaffed compared to the standards of 25 years ago and their problems escalate as that gets worse. At the same time they are under a great deal more scrutiny and are expected to accommodate more and more variables in their day while being 'fair' and not applying rules arbitrarily.

It seems this school encountered a problem. Instead of expending limited resources making judgment calls and policing a more vague policy, they made a clear, evenly applied rule. That some are upset by this is unsurprising (although I note that there is more hoopla in the press over this than nonsense 'zero tolerance' polices, which are far more egregious).

There are 2 circumstances when you are almost certain to get administrators (of ANY organization) making broad, sweeping policies that are well-meaning but fail to take into account specific situations.

A) neuter the authority to make judgment calls by failing to support the judgment calls that are made

B) when an organization is underfunded, undermanned or under heavy stress

Our litigious society suing over decisions made and unions protecting teachers who make bad decisions has placed schools in the first circumstance and the voters' ongoing obsession with lower taxes and more services without prioritizing public schooling has produced the second.


Adjust your expectations: you will see more and more of these kinds of decisions unless and until we fix those problems.
 
kornkob said:
I don't see the issue. Schools these days are routinely understaffed compared to the standards of 25 years ago and their problems escalate as that gets worse. At the same time they are under a great deal more scrutiny and are expected to accommodate more and more variables in their day while being 'fair' and not applying rules arbitrarily.

It seems this school encountered a problem. Instead of expending limited resources making judgment calls and policing a more vague policy, they made a clear, evenly applied rule. That some are upset by this is unsurprising (although I note that there is more hoopla in the press over this than nonsense 'zero tolerance' polices, which are far more egregious).

There are 2 circumstances when you are almost certain to get administrators (of ANY organization) making broad, sweeping policies that are well-meaning but fail to take into account specific situations.

A) neuter the authority to make judgment calls by failing to support the judgment calls that are made

B) when an organization is underfunded, undermanned or under heavy stress

Our litigious society suing over decisions made and unions protecting teachers who make bad decisions has placed schools in the first circumstance and the voters' ongoing obsession with lower taxes and more services without prioritizing public schooling has produced the second.


Adjust your expectations: you will see more and more of these kinds of decisions unless and until we fix those problems.
Click to expand...

With all due respect, there is no reasonable justification for the "evenly applied rule" that was implemented. Whatever justification the school board used for this mandate was skewed, to say the least. I have spent every day of the last nine years defending the very freedom that enables the school board to make that decision. That freedom they exercised is represented by one of the symbols they banned. I am sickened by total disregard for patriotism and loyalty to this country.
 
natehilde said:
. I have spent every day of the last nine years defending the very freedom that enables the school board to make that decision.
Click to expand...

Thank you, sir, for your service.

Allan
 

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